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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.10.14 13:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kireiina
You can't because CCP fail at game balance.
A hostile act like flying into enemy space should always have some possible counter. Then it becomes a game of who has the resources in place and makes the better moves. The fact that you can AFK cloak in an enemy capital for extended periods is abundant evidence of broken game-play.
But hey, maybe in 18+ months CCP will care.
LOL, yeah the counter is called Gates. You can't cloak while jumping. Catch them when they enter. You say "enemy space" so I assume you mean 0.0 Sov? Then use Bubbles.
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Creetalor
Caldari Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2010.10.14 19:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kireiina
The only danger to the cloaker is them being idiots since they get complete and absolute safety to pick when they fight,who they fight and get the first shot. PvP in which you only engage in fights you know you will win is just cheese.
Stealth with no counter is broken. But it is little surprise lots of people rather like that.
Everybody only engages if they know they can win and how do you know he is afk or active he might be gone 20 min but back the next hour and that is your issue then if you do not want to go ratting get intel on who is where and you can you need to grow a pair and then you can still do all you want 80% of the cloakers can not scram you because most don't fit one your big dangers are T3's and Arazu and Lacheisis and that is about it!
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Maz3r Rakum
Gallente Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.10.14 19:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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MonsooN WinD
Amarr B4D W0LF Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.10.15 12:42:00 -
[34]
Good question.
Where would I go afk in my cloaky ship. In a safe spot perhaps?
If I wasn't afk I would be on grid watching something like the docking ring on a station, a gate or a belt. Mostly I`ll be in something small and fragile because I had to jump through alot of hostile gates to get here.
Chances of me bumping into something are quite high but the chances of you bumping into me are quite low.
Best tactics.
1) Bait me. 2) Fleet up if you are ratting. 3) Bubble the out side of a gate and chew the cud for a few.
None of these will work well for players who don't understand the benefits of player corps which really means warpy cloakies are good for team building:)
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xenodia
Gallente DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
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Posted - 2010.10.15 16:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: GTar cloak whine number 90879872934324
Unless he has some sort of bot running that can decloak and engage you, an AFK pilot can not in any way stop all activites in a system.
Now, if you CHOOSE to not do anything because hes in your system, well, thats your issue. If you CHOOSE to ignore the "afk" cloaker and he turns out to, well, not be "afk", that again is your problem.
Its not any different than a high sec grief corp that war decs a larger carebear corp and then sits afk in station 90% of the time. The Carebear corp can go on with business as usual, assuming the griefer is afk, but they never know if he really is or not. I dont hear anyone calling for nerfs of that game mechanic, so stop calling for nerfs of cloaking. In case you havent noticed, CCP is moving more TOWARD cloaking ships (more and more ships all the time getting access to cov ops cloaks, for example). Cloaking is a fact of life in EVE. Get used to it, or find something else to play. This signature space for rent |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.10.15 17:06:00 -
[36]
Nullbear tears are the bestest!
HTFU! The only thing stopping you from your usual activities is......YOU mutha-focker!
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Traska Gannel
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Posted - 2010.10.15 18:30:00 -
[37]
Doing anything in 0.0 involves risk ... and someone who is AFK can't hurt you.
So ... the real problem is ... what if he is not afk? Think about how you would modify your activities if you wanted to rat or do something with a red in system ... and then do THAT whenever there is a cloaked spotter in system.
1) If your decision would be to dock up if there is one red in the system then that is your choice but choosing to dock up doesn't justify the complaint. If you want greater security ... play in hisec. 2) What can you do? A) Send out scouts to make sure he doesn't have buddies nearby B) Don't do PVE content solo ... you are in a corp and alliance for a reason ... use it. A solo cloak ship can't engage a small fleet by itself. Include some PVP fit ships in the ratting fleet. If a ship shows up and lights a cyno ... warp to a safe spot. Keep any larger/expensive ships aligned ... maybe ratting in a carrier or other billion ISK ship is less than a good idea with a red in system but the choice is yours. 3) There are lots of cheaper ships easily capable of doing 0.0 anomalies and plexes ... use some of those in groups ... also if you have corp mates or allies with caps or super caps you could keep a cyno lighter on standby so you can hotdrop the AFK cloaker if they hotdrop you.
The point is that the strategy may be inconvenient and may result in some ship losses (though only when they aren't AFK) ... but there are many ways to potentially deal with it using existing in game mechanics.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2010.10.15 18:39:00 -
[38]
Wait for Incarna then broadcast in local there is free cake and ice cream in the station, jump him when he comes in. |
Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
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Posted - 2010.10.16 08:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zyress Wait for Incarna then broadcast in local there is free cake and ice cream in the station, jump him when he comes in.
The cake is a lie?
Seriously, there is nothing overpowered about a cloak.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.16 15:13:00 -
[40]
Time to get back to high sec if a single afk pilot is stopping your whole corp from doing anything.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:26:00 -
[41]
I just gotta add that I live in w-space. Sometimes I never see it coming. But I STILL GO OUT THERE AND KILL SLEEPERS!
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Ximano
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Posted - 2010.10.17 21:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: GTar Isnt it unfair that a single pilot in a cyno/cloak frig can stop all activities in a system, just by hanging somewhere while at work/school/23h a day ?
We are sure his friends is close and could probably drop a capital fleat in on top of one of our cap ships in a plex.
Couldnt we get a afk timer on cloaking devices, that would require the pilot to move his ship (or some other proof he's active) ?
Grow some balls and just continue what ever you are doing there. If you can't work together even that much, then something is really badly wrong.
Farm isk in fleet. It's that easy. Everyone doing their own sanctums, but get in fleet and comms.
It's amazing how 200 pilots in same system can't even lift their fingers to help each other in fear of being hotdropped in their HOME SYSTEM? Papertigers lol.
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 08:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ralnik How to find a afk cloaker?
Simply start a mining op with a few Hulks & a Orca..
Confirming this works suprisingly well. and if hes afk and cloak, then he dosent take the bait anyways.
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Kalana Eargon
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Posted - 2010.10.20 05:04:00 -
[44]
Sigh... same old post. I don't think cloaking modules need to be nerfed at all. I'm gonna give you two scenarios and explain please explain why one is unfair.
Scenario 1: Stealth bomber pilot, known as Pilot A who is part of Alliance A, enters system. He warps to a safe spot and cloaks up going afk. He is afk and you decide to go ratting, you continue ratting uninterrupted because Pilot A is afk and therefore can not do anything to you. After a few hours of your ratting Pilot A appears on your overview warp scrambles you and drops a cyno... a small gang of Alliance A comes and kills your ship while you were ratting.
Scenario 2: Combat Recon pilot, known as Pilot A who is part of Alliance A, enters your system. He warps to a safe spot and continues to warp in between his safe spots. He is busy doing this while scanning the system looking for a viable target. He is not afk therefore you decide not to go ratting and stay safed up in your POS. Foolishly however, your noob alliance mate decides to go ratting. Soon after ratting Pilot A appears on overview drops a cyno and a small gang of Alliance A comes and kills his ship while he was ratting.
What is the difference between the scenarios? The answer is in scenario 2 the ratting pilot was not able to rat as long and made less isk, while Pilot A did not have a cloak on his ship and warped between safe spots. Scenario 1 was less of a loss, or even profitable for the ratter depending on how much me made ratting vs how much he lost.
Now some people may argue that the in scenario 1 the pilot may go AFK and come back at anytime, this doesn't matter one bit. What, if they go afk you are safer than if they are at their computer... there is no way to tell if they are or not so assume they are at the computer. Even if they are at the computer they could be busy doing other in-game related activities, assembling a fleet, or just taking intel on system activities. I've hear the argument that the game is not meant to be played while AFK and should not be able to be played like that... well have you ever heard of the free market system and trading? I can make isk while I'm not even logged in, or how about I am doing a mission that I can perma tank and I go afk while tanking and letting my drones kill them... what's next are we going to add timers where if your tank is on or your drones are active for so long they will turn off and you have to reactivate them? That's just stupid and would be annoying. Further more you have to look at your point of view, when you see the so called "afk cloaker" in local you have no way of telling if they are AFK or not and SHOULD assume they are active. Let's say you have the ability to know if they are AFK or not. Lets say they are active... you don't go ratting because they can attack you at any moment. Now lets say you know they are afk, you go ratting because they won't attack you. Ok so we just established it's safe to go ratting while they are afk and not when they are active. It's just like a fleet engagement... the enemy has a 10 man fleet on the other side of the gate, but 5 of them are cloaky ships... you don't know if they if they are ECMs or SB or such, a critical piece of intel which determines if you win or lose... therefore you either attack or don't attack. Either way you are taking a chance in this scenario, the chance of losing or the chance of missing out on potential kills... I don't see anyone complaining about it. Now, lets say your in POS and your "afk cloaker" comes in, you don't know if he is afk or not, a critical piece of intel which determines if you live or die. You either decide to go rat or not to rat, you risk losing your ship or losing out on isk.
I'm sorry but that is just how the game is, if you REALLY want a counter maybe try getting a spy into their alliance and have him give intel on if their pilots are AFK or not.
Now, I love having local to warn me about danger while ratting, but I'm still all for no local in 0.0.
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Pigcess Leia
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.10.21 19:44:00 -
[45]
cloaky red in system (usually they are in Purifier or Hound in my neck of 0.0). How do I counter that in my ratting Raven..strip off 2xT2 BCS & fit a T2 DCU & T2 Reinforced Bulkheads, throw a flight of Warrior II in my drone bay and throw out the "Come get me, *****" invitation.
It's great for lolz as the drones are chewing into his ass so he GTFO cause they don't expect people to fit a Raven hull tanked. I get to keep my ratting tank and all I lose is some DPS for the joy of ruining his day
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Liriel Del'Armgo
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.23 18:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: GTar ...just by hanging somewhere while at work/school/23h a day ? We are sure his friends is close and could probably drop a capital fleat in on top of one of our cap ships in a plex.
Wait a sec. How can he light a cyno if he is afk? And what would happen if you didn't use a cap ship in a plex?
Originally by: GTar Couldnt we get a afk timer on cloaking devices, that would require the pilot to move his ship (or some other proof he's active) ?
Or how about you grow a spine first? After that we can go about f-ing up the game for everybody else.
Wait, you can use a capital ship in a complex? When did this happen?
Also, why would you want to impose a limit on a method to keep someone under surveillance? I bet next you'll want to start having ways to keep dictors from being able to drop bubbles or something equally ******ed.
If you're ****ed off by the guy who's sitting in your system hampering your isk whoring, leave the system. There are only about a dozen others within a short trip that you could use.
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Kat Bandeis
Caldari Southern Cross Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.23 18:34:00 -
[47]
Cripes, another whiny thread about afk cloakers? Some of you really need to get over it.
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Buga Buga
Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2010.10.23 19:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: GTar Couldnt we get a afk timer on cloaking devices, that would require the pilot to move his ship (or some other proof he's active) ?
This will not help. There are a lot of utilities to make macros for stuff like this (move my ship after 10 minutes, reactivate a module, etc). I'm a "Shoot me I suck" specialist. |
fhyuiowauhsipabraphsprai
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Posted - 2010.10.23 22:59:00 -
[49]
Wasn't there an article in the Eve news about how a "supposedly afk" cloaker covert-cyno jump bridged something around 22+ bombers that proceeded to instagab a mining gang consisting of 20+ hulks and a few rorquals in about 10-20 seconds?
what is that? 10 bil?
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FoeHammer Pyromania
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Posted - 2010.10.24 10:17:00 -
[50]
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Kraschyn Thek'athor
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Posted - 2010.10.24 12:26:00 -
[51]
1. Move your ratters into one fleet, fly anomalies 2+ 2. Don't rat with expansive ships while afk-cloakers are in system 3. Move mining operation on system further 4. Install a Guard of 1x Bubbler and 1-3 Interceptors. 5. Bait the hell out of them until they become paranoia.
AFK-Cloakers are only as powerful as your misorganisation let them become.
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Stockholm Anderson
Gallente Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2010.10.26 11:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
/thread
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bR Fortuna
M0N3Y SH0T
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Originally by: GTar Isnt it unfair that a single pilot in a cyno/cloak frig can stop all activities in a system, just by hanging somewhere while at work/school/23h a day ?
We are sure his friends is close and could probably drop a capital fleat in on top of one of our cap ships in a plex.
Couldnt we get a afk timer on cloaking devices, that would require the pilot to move his ship (or some other proof he's active) ?
To answer this question.... again.... No, it is not unfair. Why? Because you're in 0.0 space, it is not supposed to be safe. If you're too much of a ***** to continue mining or ratting with a single enemy in the system, you probably DON'T BELONG IN 0.0. Further, if your entire alliance crawls to a halt due to an enemy cloaker, your entire alliance doesn't belong in 0.0.
Well said!
Hey carebears....im coming for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. Hey GTar what region of 0.0 do you live btw? Hire me and ill camp your system with MY cloaky afkness to save your from those meanies!
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:27:00 -
[54]
Moved from 'Warfare & Tactics'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Das Governator
The Republican Party
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Posted - 2010.10.26 16:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: fhyuiowauhsipabraphsprai Wasn't there an article in the Eve news about how a "supposedly afk" cloaker covert-cyno jump bridged something around 22+ bombers that proceeded to instagab a mining gang consisting of 20+ hulks and a few rorquals in about 10-20 seconds?
what is that? 10 bil?
No, I believe that's priceless.
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.10.26 17:20:00 -
[56]
I really don't believe in the widespread existance of this so-called 'afk cloaking'. If I'm inactive for five to ten minutes, at most, you can be sure my eve client is happily skipping along with the fairies but the server long since lost interest... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages
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Posted - 2010.10.27 01:02:00 -
[57]
I really don't get it. I can't honestly believe most cloakers care if they can't go afk for hours and hours, but when I see the anti-cloaking posts usually amounting to 'afk == cloaky go off' or 'add a fuel requirement' it seems silly.
Maybe if the people who had an issue with it could try and shoot for suggestions that promote activity on the person scared of the cloaker (instead of trying to force the cloaker to try and agree with something that will hurt what you might call a 'legitimate' cloaker) there could be some reconciliation.
And the people screaming failbear, carebear, whatever. My personal hope is that once something is done about local being the go-to intel tool, we could operate in true stealth. Then if you go afk in a system or just sit back and watch, it's not playing the psychological game on the people nor alerting them ahead of time. So, say you have an enemy stealther who just popped out for some reason, and you and your corp move pilots to guard the gates out. Does the stealther deserve to have immunity from his mistake as long as he stays out and outwaits the blockade, or should there be some type of active effort possible on your side to track him down?
If you can't tell, my personal opinion is that a counter should be given to cloaking if something is done about the perfect intelligence. I could care less about griefing or 'pwning some newbs psyche', I just want to play a fun, balanced game.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.27 07:53:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 27/10/2010 07:56:18 I've always felt that the effect afk cloakers have on local corps and alliances is similar to religion. Hence my sig "God is an afk cloaker". Kinda hard to explain why I think their similar so I'll just give a list that describes some general attributes that could be applied to either afk cloakers or God.
1. Takes no action 99% of the time, and people argue the other 1% doesn't count (wasn't an afk cloaker). 2. Occasionally has large effect on an individual which causes others to believe they have much more power than they do. 3. Controls the actions of large groups of people despite the lack of direct action upon said people. 4. Any attempt to find them is impossible 5. You can be found by them and there are things you can do to improve the chance of this happening but it's entirely up to them. 6. Are blaimed for many things which aren't their fault. 7. Many people publicly claim they are overpowered and should be feared by all.
------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Iceman62
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Posted - 2010.10.30 20:44:00 -
[59]
Did you ever think that: YOU might be the intruder, not him. He might be waiting you out, hoping that you would just hurry the F up. And the more you drop probes and warp here and there is just extending his stay.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.30 22:16:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Typhado3 Edited by: Typhado3 on 27/10/2010 07:56:18 I've always felt that the effect afk cloakers have on local corps and alliances is similar to religion. Hence my sig "God is an afk cloaker". Kinda hard to explain why I think their similar so I'll just give a list that describes some general attributes that could be applied to either afk cloakers or God.
1. Takes no action 99% of the time, and people argue the other 1% doesn't count (wasn't an afk cloaker). 2. Occasionally has large effect on an individual which causes others to believe they have much more power than they do. 3. Controls the actions of large groups of people despite the lack of direct action upon said people. 4. Any attempt to find them is impossible 5. You can be found by them and there are things you can do to improve the chance of this happening but it's entirely up to them. 6. Are blaimed for many things which aren't their fault. 7. Many people publicly claim they are overpowered and should be feared by all.
+1
AFK cloaking isn't the problem, helplessness against cloaking is. The gate 'counter' someone proposed earlier is idiotic and full of theorycraft, just ask the AAA members who tried hunting me down, only to have me jump, warp, cloak in their faces.
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