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Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2005.01.05 02:42:00 - [1] Seems i have been wrong in a previous thread.. and now i am sorry i started it (allthough happily it is locked allready) What i got wrong, and someone pointed out correctly, the Intensive Array can hold 200000m¦ of ore... the 30000capacity only refers to refined materials. viewed from this point of view, even the 3hour cycle isnt that bad, it still beats the standard array by some in terms of minerals refined per hour. So, the Intensive Refining Array isnt useless at all, even though the cycle time of 3 hours is a bit long. what may need a closer look maybe is the fact you cannot fill in different variants of the same ore either, so you have to run seperate cycles for say haemorphite, vivid haemorphite and radiant haemorphite... this is a bit unnerving at times, as usually you will not get enough of the higher yield variants out during a mining session to even remotely fill the 200000m¦ ore capacity of the refinery. But, as i said, i have been WRONG in my previous thread, good it got locked, and sorry again for not reading the data of the array more closely. ---- Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.01.06 11:02:00 - [2] Well what you point out is a major efficiency problem as well...not being able to refine different types of ore or worst different varients of the same ore in the same refine makes it rather painfull to use.... I really am starting to wonder what is efficient about this efficient refining array... also see my other posts on this...why is this not affected by the refining skills (especially the ore specific advanced refining skills) of the player refining ???
Sofitia Mourtos	Posted - 2005.01.06 11:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Tas Devil why is this not affected by the refining skills (especially the ore specific advanced refining skills) of the player refining ??? I have to ask the same - its a joke for people like me who have trained (several) lvl5 ore specific (like ark lvl5) skills, in anticipation of these facilities... ---------------------------------------- Buying Co-processor II bpo
Iridescent	Posted - 2005.01.06 12:27:00 - [4] Even if, somehow, I agree with the above mentionned arguments, let's not forget the benefit/possibility of having such a refinery in the very same system as mercoxit or any other high end ores.
Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.01.06 14:23:00 - [5] Iri, Agreed....but not all corps can do that ...mercoxit is only found in some very well defended alliance sectors... as far as I know the highest ore which is in 0.0 in systems not claimed by alliances is Dark Ochre.... which is valuable...but not quite as valuable as the higher end ores... I'd like the conversation to take the view of the new 0.0 comers as well...not just the well established mega alliances... The argument here is about the refinery efficiency and linked skills which players spent a long time training and which in effect are only of use in that rather rare case that you refine in a station where the facilities are less then 50% efficiency (the highest station equipment refinery stat)... I'd say the advantage of having an in-system refinery array is already offset and balanced by the cost and logistics nightmare of a POS to support such refinery array and allow its anchoring...its actually the only way of making a single POS profitable today (I don't want this conversation to turn into profitability/viability of POS - I am talking about 1 POS not a network of POSes). Now if the advantage of a refinary array in the same system of your mining venture is already offset by the logistics nightmare of keeping said POS and refinery array fueled and working + defended ... I would think its not too much to ask that skills designed to increase ones efficiency at using said refinery equipment be taken into account... AT least I would appreciate the official view on this... is it a bug ? which I fully understand can take time to fix .,...but at least we know its not the aim for the arrays to work as they do...or is it a feature which was chosen like this...and in that case could the mighty and unreachable ccp guys dare spend 30 seconds and share their godly logic for such a decision that goes against the description of the skills in game...
Ishihiro tanaka	Posted - 2005.01.07 11:09:00 - [6] Getting your POS positioned in a good system and being able to fuel it can be quite a challenge. We currently operate a POS in a system which holds every ore, including the high yield Mercoxit, Arkanor, DO and bistot. We also mine neodymium, one of the rarer moonmaterials on the market, so we got lucky. The intensive refinery is also in use on our POS, only when the refinery is filled to it max capacity will we switch it on and refine the ores in it. We need to take some structures offline due to its massive CPU usage but its not that big of a deal. Currently, only our corp uses the intensive mining array, but if another alliance member can fill it up, we might refine for them as well. As for fuelling the POS, the LO and HW go by the proportionate usage of CPU and Power, the rest we can stockpile to last weeks. Fill up 1 corporate hangar array with fuel types and you're good to go for at least a month or more! Those who aim at nothing, will most certainly hit that!
LtCol RTButts	Posted - 2005.01.07 13:31:00 - [7] Edited by: LtCol RTButts on 07/01/2005 13:33:17 Originally by: Tas Devil Iri, Agreed....but not all corps can do that ...mercoxit is only found in some very well defended alliance sectors... as far as I know the highest ore which is in 0.0 in systems not claimed by alliances is Dark Ochre.... which is valuable...but not quite as valuable as the higher end ores... I'd like the conversation to take the view of the new 0.0 comers as well...not just the well established mega alliances... The argument here is about the refinery efficiency and linked skills which players spent a long time training and which in effect are only of use in that rather rare case that you refine in a station where the facilities are less then 50% efficiency (the highest station equipment refinery stat)... I'd say the advantage of having an in-system refinery array is already offset and balanced by the cost and logistics nightmare of a POS to support such refinery array and allow its anchoring...its actually the only way of making a single POS profitable today (I don't want this conversation to turn into profitability/viability of POS - I am talking about 1 POS not a network of POSes). Now if the advantage of a refinary array in the same system of your mining venture is already offset by the logistics nightmare of keeping said POS and refinery array fueled and working + defended ... I would think its not too much to ask that skills designed to increase ones efficiency at using said refinery equipment be taken into account... AT least I would appreciate the official view on this... is it a bug ? which I fully understand can take time to fix .,...but at least we know its not the aim for the arrays to work as they do...or is it a feature which was chosen like this...and in that case could the mighty and unreachable ccp guys dare spend 30 seconds and share their godly logic for such a decision that goes against the description of the skills in game... i think it is no bug, otherwise the refiningyield would be under 50% for the large refinery. maybe they should lower it to a percentage were u get with 5/5/5 a refiningyield of 75% to avoid these misunderstandings.
Sofitia Mourtos	Posted - 2005.01.07 15:30:00 - [8] Originally by: LtCol RTButts i think it is no bug, otherwise the refiningyield would be under 50% for the large refinery. maybe they should lower it to a percentage were u get with 5/5/5 a refiningyield of 75% to avoid these misunderstandings. if you ask me then that is exactly how it should work.... - giveing _everyone_ 75% refining without training any skills is an insult to us who have trained ore skills to lvl 5. ---------------------------------------- Buying Co-processor II bpo
Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.01.08 03:36:00 - [9] agreed with sofitia...I'm not saying we should get 100% refining yield with all our skills...just that clown number 34598 with no skills at all getting exactly the same as me who dedicated 2 months of training is just a pure and ridiculous joke !

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