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Why dont ccp introduce more labs into EVE?

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MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.05 12:00:00 - [1] Just curious. People paying millions for labslots seem cind of weird. While there is factories everywhere why isnt it loads of labslots. I`m no research/producer myself but is there any reason not to have more labs? _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Mrmuttley	Posted - 2005.01.05 13:05:00 - [2] Given that labs regularly change hand for 20 mill plus you would think so but hey its been asked before and i dont see any new labs so far :-( I know POS are eventually going to reduce the load on public labs but its gonna take a long time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hmmm I need a Sig
Heero Yuy	Posted - 2005.01.05 13:23:00 - [3] Ans: for the same reason they dont give every one a battleship..... Why does ccp want to make the game fair? Life isnt fair!
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.05 13:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Heero Yuy Ans: for the same reason they dont give every one a battleship..... Why does ccp want to make the game fair? Life isnt fair! thats comparrison is not valid at all. Its not about fair or not but the needs for labslots to research and make bpcs. If someone (n00bs for instans) wants to start big buissnes research/producing and buys a bantam bpo, he wont be able to get a lab slot to research it because all the other greafers have 50 each. And trying to buy a labslot costs 10 mill _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
pshepherd	Posted - 2005.01.05 15:56:00 - [5] how can they be griefers if the people they sell the bpc's to are happy...?
Keva	Posted - 2005.01.05 19:49:00 - [6] Originally by: MrRookie thats comparrison is not valid at all. Its not about fair or not but the needs for labslots to research and make bpcs. If someone (n00bs for instans) wants to start big buissnes research/producing and buys a bantam bpo, he wont be able to get a lab slot to research it because all the other greafers have 50 each. And trying to buy a labslot costs 10 mill For a long time prices were fixed. So a lab would cost something like 10K ISK. Now if a producer is making 200 million ISK a week then 10K nothing. So why not rent every lab in the station? Lots of people did. They had 5, 10, 20 or even 100 labs. CCP has switched to market pricing for labs and factories. If all the labs in a station are filled then the price rises daily. My 3 lab slots went up from 28K to 1.1 million ea / 5 days. Then I let one expire (not really worth it) and the price is now up to 1.5 million. If it gets to 3+ million I think I will go down to one slot. Eventually prices will continue to rise & rise & rise until it becomes to expensive to keep 10+ slots. The opposite also happens. If there are open slots the prices fall until all the slots are rented. so the problem should resolve itself eventually. At that point people will complain the price is too high. :)
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2005.01.05 20:21:00 - [7] nice so ur telling that if u cant get a labslot at 1,5m /5days u unrent then a NOOB will pay 1,5m for is newly aquire heavy missile BPO.... LOL Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
Vigilant	Posted - 2005.01.05 21:35:00 - [8] Edited by: Vigilant on 05/01/2005 21:39:09 POS are not the solution... I used to think that... But, guess what POS's don't work well... They are completely broke and no one wants to drop 3.85 Billion a year to keep one running... POS's were supposed to solve Lab "Short Supply" Issue and the T2 Comp. "Pricing" Issue... Guess again... CCP needs to make the POS's more "User Friendly" and a lot less demanding...A Alliance at this time has a hard time with them ... A Corp of 100 Players or more should be able to easily do it... And that is not making them Mine ICE 24/7... Labs Costs keep rising.... 1.5 mill a cycle is absolutely INSANE... Heck, mine are 110k a cycle and that is bad enough... CCP needs to fix this correctly NOW not LATER.... Labs need to be adjusted... SOME WAY...so it doesn't affect the ecomony drastically..... The only solution I can think of RIGHT now is ADD More....period.... Labs Slot fees need to CAP out also...In lamins terms.. A max amount you will pay....And IMHO 100k is right about what it should be... Why would anyone research anything but BS Prints...if they were paying 1.5 mill a cycle... Think about it.. 1 Cycle would be more costly then 40 percent (rough guess) of all the BPO's on Market normally.... WTF Would be the point....of researching a Heavy Missile Launcher BPO (other than copies)..... And COPIES Would skyrocket in price... Kinda like IMPLANTS are doing now.... CCP Needs to get HOTT..as they say in my business.....FIX Labs, POS's, Cargo Bug, Super Ball Bouncing Ships, etc. (sorry....I am kinda of ticked about Labs atm...Prices keep going up... and NO Relief in site... and POS's are completely hosed... )
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2005.01.05 22:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Vigilant Edited by: Vigilant on 05/01/2005 21:39:09 POS are not the solution... I used to think that... But, guess what POS's don't work well... They are completely broke and no one wants to drop 3.85 Billion a year to keep one running... POS's were supposed to solve Lab "Short Supply" Issue and the T2 Comp. "Pricing" Issue... Guess again... CCP needs to make the POS's more "User Friendly" and a lot less demanding...A Alliance at this time has a hard time with them ... A Corp of 100 Players or more should be able to easily do it... And that is not making them Mine ICE 24/7... Labs Costs keep rising.... 1.5 mill a cycle is absolutely INSANE... Heck, mine are 110k a cycle and that is bad enough... CCP needs to fix this correctly NOW not LATER.... Labs need to be adjusted... SOME WAY...so it doesn't affect the ecomony drastically..... The only solution I can think of RIGHT now is ADD More....period.... Labs Slot fees need to CAP out also...In lamins terms.. A max amount you will pay....And IMHO 100k is right about what it should be... Why would anyone research anything but BS Prints...if they were paying 1.5 mill a cycle... Think about it.. 1 Cycle would be more costly then 40 percent (rough guess) of all the BPO's on Market normally.... WTF Would be the point....of researching a Heavy Missile Launcher BPO (other than copies)..... And COPIES Would skyrocket in price... Kinda like IMPLANTS are doing now.... CCP Needs to get HOTT..as they say in my business.....FIX Labs, POS's, Cargo Bug, Super Ball Bouncing Ships, etc. (sorry....I am kinda of ticked about Labs atm...Prices keep going up... and NO Relief in site... and POS's are completely hosed... ) POS are pretty fine as they are actually, no need for CCP to make them for free... we are a small corp, but we will soon open up our second one, it isnt really that hard to maintain. all that is missing are Lab and Factory modules, and everything would be fine. ---- Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.06 09:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Keva Originally by: MrRookie thats comparrison is not valid at all. Its not about fair or not but the needs for labslots to research and make bpcs. If someone (n00bs for instans) wants to start big buissnes research/producing and buys a bantam bpo, he wont be able to get a lab slot to research it because all the other greafers have 50 each. And trying to buy a labslot costs 10 mill For a long time prices were fixed. So a lab would cost something like 10K ISK. Now if a producer is making 200 million ISK a week then 10K nothing. So why not rent every lab in the station? Lots of people did. They had 5, 10, 20 or even 100 labs. CCP has switched to market pricing for labs and factories. If all the labs in a station are filled then the price rises daily. My 3 lab slots went up from 28K to 1.1 million ea / 5 days. Then I let one expire (not really worth it) and the price is now up to 1.5 million. If it gets to 3+ million I think I will go down to one slot. Eventually prices will continue to rise & rise & rise until it becomes to expensive to keep 10+ slots. The opposite also happens. If there are open slots the prices fall until all the slots are rented. so the problem should resolve itself eventually. At that point people will complain the price is too high. :) I didnt know that. I dont use lab slots myself tho. But I bet when the slots becomes so expensive that you will unrent it a n00b wont probably afford it so then it goes back to someother rich dude. _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Raaki	Posted - 2005.01.06 10:58:00 - [11] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another we need more labslots thread. give it a rest already.
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.06 12:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Raaki NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not another we need more labslots thread. give it a rest already. try to read the post. I`m not asking for more slots neither do i use them. I am just wondering if there is a reason not to introduce more slots _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Heero Yuy	Posted - 2005.01.06 12:58:00 - [13] To be honest there are slots there to be had if you want them. A friend of mine has gotten very good at getting lab slots for corp mates just be checking stations when he lfys in to change a set up etc. Kankan has obtained 5 slots so far i believe in the last few weeks (although he kindly gave them to corp members.) The main problem with making more and more labs is that even if they made millions of labs it would not solve the situation. Players are greedy and would horde them again. There is also the original point i put first... CCP do not look for equality between players... Why should noobs be able to set up thriving businesses within a week of setting up in the game when most experienced players have been trying for months. Trying to make the game a eutopia just would not work since if every one had a lab then this would effect the pprices of bpc in a negative way and bpo in a massively positive way (every one wants bpos for the labs). Noobs wont have the skills etc for effective lab usage either. If noobs want to build ships they could do what i used to do... buy bpc and rent a factory. They will most likely find this way cheaper than paying for labs. The reality is though that in the present circumstances, when a lab slot opens people grab em even if they dont want it and flog it on thus keeping prices high. all imo
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2005.01.06 14:20:00 - [14] maybe coz some noobs aren't interested on building... First thing i done as deteis was lvling my search skill... then make search... and sell bp or use it for my small corp wich was 5 members atm. U telling us lif is unfair so game should be unfair. But thats not true even in life u can build small thing do small profit and larger corp build latest thing and make hudge profit. im not grining about not having any tech Ú bpo even if i do r&d mission for more than 6 month now. im grining that being small is telling being not. We need small corp doing missiles fregates tech & or even cruisers coz its part of game now all we got is max labslot keep by bs and tech 2 component... Yeah im caldari... and yeah im flying a megatron... Why coz maybe now only caldary are tough enough to fly those and evryone use caldari ship...
Aliksr	Posted - 2005.01.06 21:24:00 - [15] RELEASING MORE LAB SLOTS WON'T FIX ANYTHING if gasoline (petrol) cost five cents per gallon (litre) people would burn the stuff no matter how much was provided the price has to rise. if labslots cost nothing to hold but lots to find, people will hoard them. if the market determines the price, they will be efficiently allocated. newbies can fly 20+ jumps to get the slots that are no longer hoarded at the current rate of 5% per week, it will take many months yet for lab slots to act like factory slots, which ARE priced by the market
Keva	Posted - 2005.01.07 03:33:00 - [16] Originally by: MrRookie try to read the post. I`m not asking for more slots neither do i use them. I am just wondering if there is a reason not to introduce more slots Ok here goes. Increasing the # of slots will do nothing to solve the problem. The problem isn't the # of slots. The problem is that the price was artifically low for over a year. People hoarded slots because they would have one when they need one. Simply doubling, trippling, or 10x the # of slots would simply mean people would hoard 2x, 3x or 10x as many slots. Market pricing will have the effected needed. It simply takes time. Factory slots are easy to find even in "highway" systems. Labs slots will be the same also.
Thyro	Posted - 2005.01.07 12:57:00 - [17] Edited by: Thyro on 07/01/2005 12:58:06 A solution for CCP since they seem to be unable to think right! CCP please increase the price of the game... in lets say 500% each 6 months I'm sure that we all see LAB/Factories and Office slots free after you apply that change. Since many players will not be able to afford to play EVE and will depart for more interesting games... and less bugged nerfed games. This why all these issues with LAB/Factor and Office slots and their crazy and idiotic price raising will be solved. Have fun Other way is to raise the number of LABs/Factories and Office slots requested many times and from long time ago
Aliksr	Posted - 2005.01.07 19:24:00 - [18] i think ccp should also raise the number of battleships it gives away and give everyone 160m skill points and infinite isk because then the game will be way more fun rite?
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.01.07 20:55:00 - [19] I would propose for lab slots the following for a slot owner 1) every 5 days the rental price doubles from the previous week 2) max runs possible is 50 on anything, anymore and the lab lapses 3) every 20 days the lease on the slot lapses automatically, with a time out for rerenting at that slot for 5 days 4) make a new skill that squeezes the number of labs you can run such as 1 lab per two levels of skill (much like how drones and drone interfacing work, so a lvl 5 of the second skill you can only run 5 labs simultaneously) 5) make a skill for checking lab status, right now you can check em all at any time, make a skill that requires you to have levels to see the lab status. I think these suggestions would increase the turn over of labs, keep prices reasonable. Force people to do real research rather than tie up labs with shuttle blueprints, and overall make labs a productive item to use. IMHO most labs are used well, the big problem is that labs are in short supply for incidental users. My two labs that I have are always active making ME 50 BPO's for our corp. A ship ME 50 BPO however can tie it up for months. In that light guys like me doing this really gag the entire Lab situation with realitively useless research to hold onto the slot, keeping others from doing more useful stuff with them. I think CCP needs to make holding onto A lab progressively prohibative, to force guys like me to give up that lab rather than tie it up with a crappy shuttle print. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
LtCol RTButts	Posted - 2005.01.07 23:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 07/01/2005 12:58:06 A solution for CCP since they seem to be unable to think right! CCP please increase the price of the game... in lets say 500% each 6 months I'm sure that we all see LAB/Factories and Office slots free after you apply that change. Since many players will not be able to afford to play EVE and will depart for more interesting games... and less bugged nerfed games. This why all these issues with LAB/Factor and Office slots and their crazy and idiotic price raising will be solved. Have fun Other way is to raise the number of LABs/Factories and Office slots requested many times and from long time ago yes, more labslots would be great. it will be one of the day u can earn billions in 24 hours. the only problem in renting them all fast enough is a fast mouse and some decent corpmates at the right place at the right time. i would place some in the centralsystems and earn 1 billion per complete labstation, great, isn't it ? it really solves the problem for to low labslots. every 4 days i would unrent and rerent them if i cant sell them. BPOs re not needed to keep them. great solution, or is a random time solution for rerenting the labslots not better ? 4h fixed +4h randomtime to make a unrented labslot available ? problem is not the numbers of labslots, problem is the possibility of trading them. CCP must cut this trading, number of labslots is bollox.
Jonas Bane	Posted - 2005.01.08 10:53:00 - [21] Labs and research are not new player abilities. Simply put, you need to be part of a corporation with a pretty solid vertical investment in your chosen market before research becomes useful. The BPC market is already insanely flooded, and research-for-hire is tricky as there's no "secure" way to transfer the BPO back and forth. Adding more slots won't give new players the chance to get into researching. As mentioned countless times before, more slots will just allow people with the proper infrastructure to simply hoarde more of them. This only increases the difference in cost of production between new players and well established corps. So while you might help a lucky new player that snags a slot when they're released, you're killing the new manufacturers who simply can't compete with ME-Billion BPO mega-corps. Sorry if you wanted to start your own BPC-printing corporation with two of your buddies. Get into an established production corp and you'll get a chance to play with labs.
Baerd	Posted - 2005.01.08 19:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Jonas Bane Adding more slots won't give new players the chance to get into researching. As mentioned countless times before, more slots will just allow people with the proper infrastructure to simply hoarde more of them. This only increases the difference in cost of production between new players and well established corps. So while you might help a lucky new player that snags a slot when they're released, you're killing the new manufacturers who simply can't compete with ME-Billion BPO mega-corps. I totally agree.. more lab slots will just be sucked up by the current, experienced player base. Give each player account (not character alt) 1 free lab that works at 1/4 or a 1/10 the speed of normal labs - maybe even limit it to ship equipment (and not actually ships). Enough that newer players can try and experience the R&D aspect of the game.. not powerful enough that it will destroy the desire for real lab slots. Letting new players experience aspects of the game that are "closed" to them without damaging the current economy isn't a bad thing.
Sarina	Posted - 2005.01.09 22:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Sarina on 09/01/2005 23:32:57 No Raaki, im not going to give the matter a rest at all. CCP want us to create a player driven market. I got tech 1 and tech 2 prints. But im completely stuck! Nothing will ever be produced if I cannot get, and even more important keep 1 single 'friffin' labslot. (We used to have four, but we lost them due to the wellknown bug that did trow us out) People complain on the prices of lets say interceptors and assault ships. No wonder! Our prints sits unused since we are not able to research them, to get the efficiency up and make copied for other players so they will be able t build their own ships, or to sell or whatever. So fact is, the economy is at a standstill for so many due to the lack of the first step in the process, the reseach and copying of the prints! Jonas Bane: No its not for really new players. But considering that the time to researech a print is helluva lot longer than the actual production I'd say the extreme rarity of labslots is one unbalance from the very begginning of launching this game. Reference system list for my immediate area of operations. The basic problem is that there was too few slots originally, with one active player base 3 times as large as it is nowadays. (And even more subscribers less active, mebbe there we should look for some of the lab slot campers.) Regardless, most stations can produce, but the research takes a lot longer than the actual production. So lets have a look at my closest area, all systems mentioned have at least 1 station and most have several with refining and production capability. But very few got any research - well read for yourself. Kador Prime - 1 research station, all outrented for ages. Matyas - no research station. Pimsu - no research station. Jarzalad - no research station. Asrios - 3 research stations, all completely camped. Zorrabed - 2 research stations, all completely camped. Hostakoh - no research station. Shemah - 1 research station, completely camped for a long time. Kasi - no research station. Yooh - no research station. Hilmar - no research station. Jar****san - 1 research station, all rented. Luromooh - no research station. Murini - no research station. Nordar - no research station. Azizora - no research station. Shabura - 1 research station, all slots camped. Adia - no research station. Sahdil - no research station. Nadohman - no research station. Moussou -Kador Prime - 1 research station, all outrented for ages. Matyas - no research station. Pimsu - no research station. Jarzalad - no research station. Asrios - 3 research stations, all completely camped. Zorrabed - 2 research stations, all completely camped. Hostakoh - no research station. Shemah - 1 research station, completely camped for a long time. Kasi - no research station. Yooh - no research station. Hilmar - no research station. Luromooh - no research station. Murini - no research station. Nordar - no research station. Azizora - no research station. Shabura - 1 research station, all slots camped. Adia - no research station. Sahdil - no research station. Nadohman - no research station. Moussou - no research station.
Jonas Bane	Posted - 2005.01.10 00:45:00 - [24] Sarina, why don't you start building off the Tech2 BPOs you already have? Sure, you can't turn a profit simply selling BPCs, but you can do quite well with a stock BPO and even moderate industry skills. The price for Tech2 items are well above the raw material cost. And with improvements to your Production Efficency skill you'll turn an even bigger profit. Besides, you can make more money building the Interceptors yourself than you could simply selling the blueprint copies. You don't need lab slots to be competitive, especially in the Tech2 market.
Sarina	Posted - 2005.01.10 06:40:00 - [25] Jonas Bane: The answer to that is very simple to give. Because they're unresearched! And I only have that many of the special modules, so I need to get my economy going already in the first run. Balancing it with a print that got at least the bare bone basic researched. So im not asking for much really, only a lvl 2 for time and lvl 3 for efficiency. That accomplished I would start production. But im still busy searching, so dont have any time for any production either. Now in Hadonoo. You might add this susyem to my list, 1 single station got research facility and no slot whatsoever. Quite pathetic this situation, I think I delete the prints I have as a protest.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.01.10 07:47:00 - [26] If youre absolutely desperate for labslots, buy one or two from a reputable source. ~20m or so isnt a whole lot and certainly worth more then your time spent looking. Otherwise, try running missions or trading or NPCing in a big lab system. I've picked up (and given to corpmates) close to a dozen labslots in a month and a half just from checking stations at random while on route to doing other things. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.10 09:08:00 - [27] The reason asked was that we sold our 2 labslots in our corp a while ago and seeing people selling them for 10-20 mill or whatever seems a bit to much tbh. There is a billion unrented factory slots why cant they introduce so many labslots that it wont be an issue anymore. Would expect the griefers that sells them for 20 mill to avoid it ofc. _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Sarina	Posted - 2005.01.10 10:36:00 - [28] RollinDutchMasters: But yes I did that trading/mission thing over here in the backwoods of the game all trough Nov. That after the game bugged and we lost our slots in Asrios, Zorrabed and Ithar. Trying to keep a presence in that specific area checking every 6 hours or so resulted in no slot whatsoever. So I went on a more active search all trough this part of Amarr space all out to Tash-Murkon and Kor-Azor, and thats what I did again yesterday. I dont know any one I can trust, but I do know that the odds are staked against you due to the rarety of the things. So its much more likely that whoever you get in contact with are a scammer. Secondly: 20 million for a labslot is horribly overcharged. This have only one reason, before the progressive price of rental was introduced could be anything between 1 mil to 7 million ISK tops. So why have they skyrockeded to 20 million then? Its the progressive price for the labslots of course! The slot camper wants to get back the money they have poured into the rental while keep us others from using that slot. Im supposed to pay the idiot for that, now also telling him? Thank you dear slotcamper for keeping me from the lab slot I have desperately needed since early december. I will of course reimburse you for the horrible costs the evil CCP have caused you tThey should be ASHAMED of themselves for introducing such charges! Here's my 20 million, now use my money to prevent even more producers from playing the game from now on please!' Yes MrRookie: Its the availablility of production slots that amaze me, and makes me think the game got a flaw from the very beginning in this respect. Production usually takes just that many hours even for a big run of lets say missiles, and you could easily build several battleships a day of you wanted. Research on the other hand can easily take weeks. So ther's no reason to have things this way really.
Heero Yuy	Posted - 2005.01.10 13:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Sarina RollinDutchMasters: But yes I did that trading/mission thing over here in the backwoods of the game all trough Nov. That after the game bugged and we lost our slots in Asrios, Zorrabed and Ithar. Trying to keep a presence in that specific area checking every 6 hours or so resulted in no slot whatsoever. So I went on a more active search all trough this part of Amarr space all out to Tash-Murkon and Kor-Azor, and thats what I did again yesterday. I dont know any one I can trust, but I do know that the odds are staked against you due to the rarety of the things. So its much more likely that whoever you get in contact with are a scammer. Secondly: 20 million for a labslot is horribly overcharged. This have only one reason, before the progressive price of rental was introduced could be anything between 1 mil to 7 million ISK tops. So why have they skyrockeded to 20 million then? Its the progressive price for the labslots of course! The slot camper wants to get back the money they have poured into the rental while keep us others from using that slot. Im supposed to pay the idiot for that, now also telling him? Thank you dear slotcamper for keeping me from the lab slot I have desperately needed since early december. I will of course reimburse you for the horrible costs the evil CCP have caused you tThey should be ASHAMED of themselves for introducing such charges! Here's my 20 million, now use my money to prevent even more producers from playing the game from now on please!' Yes MrRookie: Its the availablility of production slots that amaze me, and makes me think the game got a flaw from the very beginning in this respect. Production usually takes just that many hours even for a big run of lets say missiles, and you could easily build several battleships a day of you wanted. Research on the other hand can easily take weeks. So ther's no reason to have things this way really. I have bought 3 lab slots this week from the 'for sale' forum. The people on there will not cheat you sinc ethey are publishing their name to the world
Sarina	Posted - 2005.01.10 15:52:00 - [30] Read but not understood Heero Yuy? Here's the short version then: I said Im not going to pay those guys for doing the disfavour of camping research slots keeping me or or anyone else from getting them!

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