(Note that this might also apply to the docking module)

One thing that wasn't in the minutes, because it was talked about outside the summit, was that mooring would be the primary way that people interact with a POS, and the docking module would be more expensive (and/or perhaps require a freighter to move).

As for the NPC corp alt that doesn't feel I am doing a good job representing them, feel free to run against me next time. Of course, I don't think you will do that, since you would probably have to run with your main.

People might not like to fight against the UI but what they love to do is fight against each other. You have multiple pages of explanations and discussions on how the changes proposed in CSM minutes will reduce the potential for fun fights. Might I recommend that you focus on that? Tell us how new POSes and how your ideas will bring us more pew instead of little gimmicks like Contracts and Markets.

Blahj blah blah

Uh, you said it yourself, "Yes, its scaled for smaller corps and alliances". How is a small corp going to evict some other small corp that has built a giant deathstar POS without the ability to bring in dreads?

This is, again, an issue that comes up when I talk to smaller corps than are posting here. Some 5 man corp can't move into a c2 right now because many of them are filled with large ecm dickstars, which they have no hope of killing.

POS defenses need to scale with the amount and size of ships that can be brought to bear against them.

QFT ;)

oh please, youre just embarrassing yourself.
comparing POS sieges in a c5/6 to a c2 is just stupid, at best ignorant.

POS defences on a C5/6 POS are basically decorative since any attacking fleet will have a LEAST 3, more likely a half dozen or more, dreads which can ignore them.
attacking a decked out dickstar in a low class WH is THE single most tedious and horribly painful thing you can do in a WH.

yes, obviously it can be done regardless of POS setup, even in a C1.
however, attacking a low class large POS with 100+ online ECM mods (which all low class POSs should have if they know what theyre doing, most dont) is beyond painful.

Let their false sense of security be their consolation for living in silly little baby wormholes.

Corps that move into Class 1s and 2s eventually outgrow them or at least start branching out into higher-class wormholes. They learn the basics and then they want to go after the bigger and better signatures and anomalies that bring in more ISK. When they do this they accept an even greater level of risk and they have to be even more organized to be successful. This brings the people already out there more opponents to fight (or potentially allies to befriend or recruit). If we change that paradigm, a year from now how many people will be in wormholes at all?


That's my two cents (for now).

Gnaw, I don't think Lg POSes in C1s/C4s lead to conflict like perhaps they should. People tend to go for maximum safety, and if a slightly bigger corp "Moves in" the usual result is the smaller corp moving out, just often without much if any resistance.

With the changes they propose the only things i would like them to change at the same time.... and an option to se if a pos is online or offine on directional.

I believe he was saying once the changes have been implemented, that is to say if there's no forcefield involved anymore.

I believe most people here only concern about fixing broken role/access system.

But Bane would a situation where small pos were reinforced in weeks not actually result in the opposite of what you are saying?
From what I read of the minutes this was what ccp was thinking.

Assuming a C1-C3 with static highsec you could RF someones tower and be back to finish it off easily, on your terms. Even without hole control you can get people in with no difficulties, dramas or delays.

Either the victims are going to log off their caps, SD them inside the POS shield, or lose them to the attackers.

Capitals are only a deterrent if you're prepared to use them, otherwise they're just ornaments, and in lower classes I'd wager they are more of an incitement for someone to camp out in your wormhole for a few days than anything else. The sort of corps that tend to have them in lower class wormholes are - generally speaking - ones that are ill equipped to deal with someone attacking their tower and/or have just the right amount of hubris to drop them on bait ships/POSes.

As the saying goes, bigger s**ts attract more flies.

I'm basing it on my experience, and talking to lots of people. I don't think capitals are the be all and end all, but they are a tremendous people multiplier. A triage carrier in a C1 where no Bhaalgorns can come in and neut it is very powerful.

Right now, many of the larger w-space alliances could kick just about anyone out of c1-c4 space. The only reason they aren't doing that right now is because they have no reason to do so.

^^ well i have no problem with docking...

Before we go well into nerfing low end w-space on "your" experience can you get some actual figures from CCP about low class w-space? And how many towers get destroyed in C1-4 compared to C5/C6 and the use of capitals linked to that data?

I see so many other people "with" experience refute your claims that C1-4 need nerfing, why are you so unwilling to listen and so steadfast that you will put your views forward to them instead? I would also ask that you make the people that have alledgedly said to you that pos sizes need to be lowered in low class holes come and say it publicly and say why they think they should be lowered, as it stands you seem to be the only person to have the opinion that they need to be nerfed.

Every time you have commented back about the POS size nerf in low end w-space you have come back with your reasoning regarding C1's and their mass limitations. I actually agree that C1's need a shakeup, but i definitely do not think you need to nerf the people that have gone to significant effort to protect there part of space in a C2,3 or 4.

You pointed out the reasoning that a small group of people can't go in and take a WH with a large well set up tower. I would like to say i doubt that it would even help them if you changed them to small towers as there is still so many empty low class w-space systems that are completely empty that a small group of people could move into without needing to fire one shot of ammo to get. There is very much still opportunities for people new to go and get themselves a piece of space to try out wormhole life.

But there is the problem now that if you put your views forward that POS's should be nerfed that it would be unattainable to expect us to stay in a C1-4 and expect to have to defend our towers consistently against anyone that wants to roam through and get some fun. There is plenty of people in my view that already have the organisation and numbers to go evict people in a large well built pos, why make it so that 3 people can easily come and knock your tower into reinforce every night while you sleep with little effort on their part?

Also if someones has gone to the great expense of building a couple of cap ships in their hole on the limited income you can get in a low end wormhole why should they not be able to? Should you not say in fairness to what you want in low class holes that caps ships amounts should be limited in a C5 or C6 hole? seems to be the same argument to me that like you said you challenge people to go evict AHARM from your hole.

Why is it ok for you to fortify your w-space to that extent that you are not vulnerable to a small group wanting to take your w-space?

Pretty sure thats a troll post