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Scwigs	Posted - 2010.10.19 07:30:00 - [1] I'd like to start using an AF for PVP in small gangs to fleet sizes, the AF will be a place holder while I train up to fit a T2 Thorax. The role would be tackle, with some DPS. I was wondering if I should using the Enyo or the Ishkur, and what the differences are. So far i'm thinking the Ishkur for the stasis web with that 3rd medium slot, but the enyo has better dps and more tank I believe. Suggestions?
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.10.19 07:38:00 - [2] Your right about going with the ishkur. The enyo is far too slow and restricted to blasters for its dps.
TaluxA	Posted - 2010.10.19 07:40:00 - [3] Generally the ishkur is considered a better ship. The enyo gets more raw dps or tank, but with two midslots it has some trouble applying it. Ishkur has a much better slot layout and a 50m dronebay, which is incredibly useful. The enyo is a bit of a case of 'not as bad as everyone thinks', but the ishkur basically outclasses it.
Scwigsworth	Posted - 2010.10.19 07:58:00 - [4] Edited by: Scwigsworth on 19/10/2010 08:01:31 How about fits? I was thinking: Low: Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II Small Armor Repair II Mid: 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II High: Light Ion Blaster II Light Ion Blaster II Light Ion Blaster II Small Nosferatu II Rigs: Hybrid Collision Accelerator Anti-Explosive Pump And oh Hey, just wanted to say "what the?" for having my alt post.
TaluxA	Posted - 2010.10.19 08:13:00 - [5] That fit looks reasonable. You might want to use an mwd if you're trying to tackle stuff, as an afterburner ishkur is even slower than a battlecruiser.
Scwigs	Posted - 2010.10.19 08:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Scwigs on 19/10/2010 08:35:41 Im getting 797 m/s with afterburner, also I go over powergrid with a microwarp, and even if i could fit it the cap would only last 37s with everything on.
Dark Voynix Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2010.10.19 08:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Dark Voynix on 19/10/2010 08:56:30 Originally by: TaluxA That fit looks reasonable. You might want to use an mwd if you're trying to tackle stuff, as an afterburner ishkur is even slower than a battlecruiser. Not once their mwd dont work anymore ( look at "scrambler" ). The ab/mwd its always a debattable question. If you succeed scrambling, you can orbit at 500m with AB active and without signature resolution penalty. THis make you quite hard to be hitted by medium guns. The web nerf made this tactic even better. On the other side, you are not fast enough to tank missiles or avoid drones and they will shred you in pieces. So you should pick wisely your targets and hope to be able to scramble them. If they succeed to active mwd and orbit you at safe distance with a distruptor you have no hope to survive. So in conclusion: if you face turrets fire and you land close to be able to scramble them you are fine, else you are dead.
TaluxA	Posted - 2010.10.19 08:56:00 - [8] Edited by: TaluxA on 19/10/2010 08:58:33 You might have to go for a powergrid rig to get an mwd to fit. That's unless you've got super high fitting skills, then you can use a meta4/coreli c repper to squeeze everything on. edit: the ishkur has really poor agility and will struggle to tackle stuff with an ab unless it lands right on top of them.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.19 10:36:00 - [9] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 19/10/2010 10:38:37 Originally by: TaluxA Generally the ishkur is considered a better ship. The enyo gets more raw dps or tank, but with two midslots it has some trouble applying it. Ishkur has a much better slot layout and a 50m dronebay, which is incredibly useful. The enyo is a bit of a case of 'not as bad as everyone thinks', but the ishkur basically outclasses it. And I rather get a Wolf over the Enyo as well. Originally by: Scwigs Edited by: Scwigs on 19/10/2010 08:35:41 Im getting 797 m/s with afterburner, also I go over powergrid with a microwarp, and even if i could fit it the cap would only last 37s with everything on. I get 2000m/s on my armor AFs. on a ship that really needs to get close range quickly with blasters, MWD is rather important. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Psiri	Posted - 2010.10.19 10:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Psiri on 19/10/2010 10:54:39 Enyo isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but mostly just because of its price tag. Fitted with a MWD and Neutrons it can dispatch frigates quite well, I'd fit it something like this [Enyo, Taranis Wannabe] Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S [Offlined Module] Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Warrior II x1 That's 228 DPS with Null and 8.16k EHP. With proper gunnery skills you have around 5k Optimal and 5k falloff, that's nothing to complain about. Sadly it's 3% over on CPU so adjust accordingly. I wouldn't engage cruisers in this fit, due to neuts and the fact that you may not be able to dictate range. However, to be fair most AFs die to a properly fitted PvP cruiser anyway.
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:06:00 - [11] If you are going to do any tackling (backup, not the primary tackler) then go for Ishkur. Enyo just doesn't have the slots. Also in a gang those drones might mess up the enemies target choices. Basically, more stuff in the air. You need to have good skills to make the ishkur shine. When you do, it's up there with the best AF's. Enyo looses on speed and slots, which pretty much means bad things when you are up against matari af's. Simply put, there are better choices. Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.19 15:46:00 - [12] The Enyo would be an awesome ship if they'd change the utility high to a mid. As it stands now the problem is that it's just too damned slow to to apply it's awesome dps to any ship other than another Enyo. With an AB a scram and a web it would be absolute death to any frig/AS that closed into web range. And the reason the wolf doesn't suffer as much from the missing mid is that it's a faster ship in general and it's fall off bonus lets it reach out and touch ships outside scram range. No Blaster boat should ever have fewer than 3 mids.
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.19 15:53:00 - [13] Edited by: Indeterminacy on 19/10/2010 15:55:51 I dunno where you're PVPing but if you're going to be tackling...you might consider an inty over a thorax in the long run. I hear the taranis is quite nice. That particular ship would also eliminate your AB/MWD dilemma as well.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.19 16:21:00 - [14] Oh for what it's worth I consider AF's to primarily be an anti-frig platform. They're just too damned expensive and fragile to be tossed up against cruiser hulls. They are however absolute death to T1 frigs. For tackling go with a tackler like an Ares or a Taranis if you are a bit more aggressive. A Tristan is a fair gang tackler as well and might actually be better due to it's much lower price. Frigate hulls in general don't tend to hold up well in mixed engagements so your best defense is to avoid being a juicy enough target to be called primary in the first place. T2 ships in general make for nice juicy killmails so tend to get called earlier than their T1 variants. Ishkurs are highly reliant on drone's and if you have those skills you'd be better served with a small gun Vexor. which will more than match the Ishkur's dps and has a much beefier tank. Just toss 4 small Neutron blasters in the highs with either Neut or RR mod in the utility, mwd/web/point (I prefer a disruptor myself) in the mids a DC2 1600mm rt and a couple EANM2s in the lows, round it out with some trimarks, 5 hammerheads IIs and 5 EC-600s in the drone bay to cover damage and provide a GTFO card. Makes for a scary little beast that is absolute murder to frigs and will cause cruiser sized targets a fair amount of grief as well, all this will cost about the same as a fit out Ishkur and have much better survivability. Of course it all depends on what you are doing. So if you just want to tackle use a T1 frig if the only thing holding you up from using a cruiser hull is T2 guns just use the Vexor which is far superior cruiser to the Thorax 90% of the time anyway.
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.10.19 20:19:00 - [15] I'm a big drone person and so my vote goes to the Ishkur. I personally fly around in this fit... not the fastest around... but it certainly packs a few surprises: [High] Light Electron Blaster II (Antimatter) Light Electron Blaster II (Antimatter) Light Electron Blaster II (Antimatter) Small Nosferatu II [Medium] 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I (Tracking Speed) [Low] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Small Armor Repair II Damage Control Unit II [Rig] Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I [Drone] 5x Hobglobin II 5x EC-300 Note: Very effective against turret ships provided that you can get in scrambler range. However, I avoid missile ships like the plague. The ECM drones are for GTFO ability. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.10.19 20:41:00 - [16] For me the Enyos Bonuses scream "fit rails" as it has both an optimal range and tracking bonus, this fit might not be optimal as I don't have much experience with active armour tanked frigates but you get the idea and could try something like this:- [Enyo, Rails] Small Armor Repairer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Adaptive Nano Plating II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Anti-Explosive Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Warrior II x1 Hits all the way out to scrambler and web range and although its DPS are not exactly fireworks when you compare it to theoretical blaster DPS its ability to apply that damage through its longer optimal is much better.
Scwigs	Posted - 2010.10.20 01:51:00 - [17] So i like the idea of either a Taranis or Ishkur, both seem fun to fly. For the Ishkur to fit a MWD, id use the ancillary current router and an anti explosive rig? And for the Taranis, I'd go with 2 polycarbon engine housing for the crazy speed. I like the idea of going 4167m/s.
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Scwigs And for the Taranis, I'd go with 2 polycarbon engine housing for the crazy speed. I like the idea of going 4167m/s. You can do what you like of course but, most people don't fly a ranis for its speed. Just about every other interceptor is faster (if not every other). But none do more DPS with such relative impunity (dual prop ftw)...if I were you I'd rig to its strength ie for even more damage.
Aesheera Amarr PWNED Factor Elite	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:37:00 - [19] Originally by: TaluxA That fit looks reasonable. You might want to use an mwd if you're trying to tackle stuff, as an afterburner ishkur is even slower than a battlecruiser. When looking at the topspeed it may look as slower than a BC, but you forget the fact that the ishkur accelerates three times as fast and is more agile.
TaluxA	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:45:00 - [20] Good luck tackling anything when you're going 790 m/s if it's either moving or more than 20km away, no matter how fast you accelerate (ishkur isn't very agile anyway).
Aesheera Amarr PWNED Factor Elite	Posted - 2010.10.20 15:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Aesheera on 20/10/2010 15:18:59 I responded to the quote good sir. If you want to be faster in general outside of the BC/AB Ishkur example and tackle, get a interceptor. Or fit a frickin mwd on it.

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