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Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.04 18:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
.. would you crap your pants and rage-quit if Pl was only available through Dust514 assets? |
Vito Tattaglia
New Paradigm Inc.
37
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Posted - 2012.08.04 20:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I imagine that would cause some people to quit the game, however it would cause an absolutely massive jump in the prices of PI goods, making us PS3 owners rejoice. :) |
Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.04 21:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
What would be an acceptable form of Eve Pl and Dust planetary control interaction? |
Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.04 23:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Please for the feedback? I apologize if I was too flippant in my first post. We have a debate going on the closed Beta forums that I can't get into because of NDA but I really would like to know. I have never done Pl .. is it an important source of income for a large portion of the industrial base? Would its loss represent a game-breaker? Just looking for a little feedback to take home to my fellow Dust-Bunnies. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
214
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd actually be happy. I still own the means of exporting the goods on the planet... yet someone else can fuss over the details of restarting extractors.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even if it meant the occasional loss of your hardware to rival corps? |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
214
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:Even if it meant the occasional loss of your hardware to rival corps?
If that is a problem for me, then it is a problem for other PI corps. If I can gather a strong enough force of DUST players, I can maintain control of the planets my corp owns, split the profits with our dust players and enjoy sky high PI prices on the goods we all produce.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Adoniah Carrefour wrote:Even if it meant the occasional loss of your hardware to rival corps? If that is a problem for me, then it is a problem for other PI corps. If I can gather a strong enough force of DUST players, I can maintain control of the planets my corp owns, split the profits with our dust players and enjoy sky high PI prices on the goods we all produce.
This was my thinking as well. Do you rely on Pl for your income? Do you mind my asking the average per/hour income? |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
215
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Posted - 2012.08.05 01:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
I used to rely on PI for income, but now I rely on it for industry.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
nat longshot
solo and loveing it
Windowlicking Ninja Turtles
54
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Posted - 2012.08.05 07:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
heres the bigger question what happen when you take our pi's?
Easy we shot you ground pounding sry butts from space and no dust players should not have soul contral over pi's.
That and you cant land if we take your trasport out before hand. |
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Celgar Thurn
Department 10
47
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Posted - 2012.08.05 09:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:Please for the feedback? I apologize if I was too flippant in my first post. We have a debate going on the closed Beta forums that I can't get into because of NDA but I really would like to know. I have never done Pl .. is it an important source of income for a large portion of the industrial base? Would its loss represent a game-breaker? Just looking for a little feedback to take home to my fellow Dust-Bunnies.
It sounds like you are asking from the point of view of people who don't or will only play DUST 514. Planetary Interaction (PI) derived materials are used to make a number of items in EVE Online but I think are primarily used to fuel POSes and for ship fuel to engage jump drives and compress ore in Rorqual ships. Therefore PI materials are an essential element for pilots in EVE Online so I don't think CCP will remove them in favour of only being able to source it from DUST mercs. Before Planetary Interaction was introduced I think PI goods were bought from the NPC market but I don't see CCP reverting to that or a similar situation. Especially as POCO(Player Operated Customs Offices) have been introduced and CCP seems to like those structures. 
If you read the DUST 514 related part of the CSM minutes which have just been released there are a couple of DUST 514/PI interactions mentioned there as ideas or proposals. Firstly that if EVE pilots set up PI operations on planets occupied by DUST 514 installations that there can be an increase in productivity for the EVE PI operations. Secondly that DUST mercs will be able to tax PI operations on planets they have set up installations on. On the latter point I hope this will relate to PI in low & nul-sec only as current Customs Office PI taxes in high sec combined with the limited resources there would drive the final nail into PI in high sec. |
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
19
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Posted - 2012.08.05 15:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
part of the issue will be were DUST is allowed to play. My PI is in a WH were dust is not scheduled to be played. If you give PI to dust players Then what about all those planets they are not playing on. I doubt there will be enough players for every planet in the game. I make good money with my PI so would be a bit upset. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
315
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Posted - 2012.08.05 15:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
it would bother me if Dust did not include some of eve assets but I think what you are really asking is would it bother you if all PI assets were destroyable from Dust. Isn't that the point of planetary warfare? Now that said. there will have to be balance (either reward or longevity .. or no one will ever do PI again.. what's the point if as soon as you plant a factory planet side it's gone..?
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Haffsol
Froody Guys Spaceships Business
12
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Posted - 2012.08.05 16:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm more concerned in how the POCO's will work after DUST and EVE will be merged. Will dust bunnies use "our" POCO to travel from planet to planet? In this case will the PI resources use the same one or will we have 2 different kind of POCO's? Will they become sort of claimable hubs to determinate who owns the planet?
PI resources are indeed part of the "dispute" about the changes that DUST will introduce in EVE, but you should also consider the changes that EVE will introduce in DUST, such as me bombing you all if you touch my PI installation  |
Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.05 17:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Many thanks for the replies. It was indeed the CSM minutes that inspired the debate. I do play Eve but only for the last year and I am entirely unfamiliar with the Pl mechanics (have barely scratched the surface of industry in general) so your patience is appreciated. My concern after reading the minutes was that Dust-Bunnies don't really control a resource in the game. Any resource at all. As well, according to the minutes the Bunnies have no impact on Sov. It sort of hurt our fweewings and so we have gotten to talking about ways we could have a meaningful impact on New Eden.
The point made that we couldn't actually control all of Pl because there simply isn't enough of us (and we will only be active on temperate planets for the first while .. AGAIN QUOTING MINUTES HERE NO NDA VIOLATIONS FOR THIS GUY) would mean that wouldn't work if we had full control. I suppose a tax and the ability to destroy or take control of planetary assets would make the most sense. You won't be able to bomb us unless there is a battle active .. at least as far as I know, which would require you to either have a stable of Dust-Bunnies or to contract some before the fiery vengeance could be rained. Also, Dust-Bunnies can't own or control hi-sec planets so the low yields would not be compounded by high POCO taxation and Dust Corps also taxing you. Anyhow, again I appreciate the responses. Any idea's on this aspect of Dust/Eve integration from you lot are welcomed. |
Ooda
Treasures Collectors
Solar Citizens
18
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Posted - 2012.08.06 00:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well, if PI would be owned by dust players - it would be a horrible mess just because PoS-Fuels would become insanely expensive (they are highly needed).
Destroying them - well - could be annoyance, but for the money given of one day of PI, I could rebuild the whole stuff. Best idea is to let them destroy and loot the crap out of it. That way there would be a need to fight if you want to become healthy. (As an example: a full cycle of my PI is worth arround 60 mil a day with 3 chars). If you can raid PI-extremes a few days peer week - you could make insane ISK. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor
Intrepid Crossing
375
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Posted - 2012.08.06 01:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
All depends on the future of POSs. If the new "mini stations" are fueled the same way and if the items needed to build them are like POS items now, then it would be an unwelcome change. Furthermore, T2 production would have to be drastically changed or PI materials removed altogether. Either way, it'd be a large nerf for 0.0 imo. I build items in 0.0 so I don't need to go to empire everytime I want an advanced laboratory or some crap. With T2, the addition of PI allows less shipping to 0.0 to build T2 (still has it's own set of problems but still, step in the right direction).
Too much of the game seems to depend on it. If they remove it all, then that would fix it but then what would be the point of PI items for Dust?
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
311
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
PI isn't just for pos fuel.
Rocket fuel used to make all t2 missiles (scourge fury included)is a pi product. Given that a tengu pilot running missions could easily burn through 500k missiles a week, and that takes about 12000 rocket fuel, pi is important.
Every t2 missile launcher requires robotics.
All gyros and other turrets tend to need mechanical parts.
Warp scrams, disrupts, and webs require transitors.
Construction blocks are everywhere.
Pi is a vital part of many t2 components. That said, I doubt it would be purely dust's domain. First off, ccp would have to return all skill points set into pi or have a large riot. Additionally, many people have pi alts to make passive income. Losing those alts would hinder ccps bottom line depending if they are on paid accounts it not.
So yeah, pi is important to eve in general. As for dust... Eve is a big worlds. If some dust bunnies try to keep me from doing pi on a planet, I would move else where. There are plenty of planets out there. |
Zicon Shak'ra
Vacuo Anomalia
25
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Posted - 2012.08.06 16:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
nat longshot wrote:heres the bigger question what happen when you take our pi's?
Easy we shot you ground pounding sry butts from space and no dust players should not have soul contral over pi's.
That and you cant land if we take your trasport out before hand.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN? 
Wormholes are cool, m'kay? |
blood hauler
The Art of War
6
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
It would be like if ccp gave eve players control over dust players ammo supply.
The outcry from dust players would be huge |
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Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
12
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
blood hauler wrote:It would be like if ccp gave eve players control over dust players ammo supply.
The outcry from dust players would be huge
Pretty sure Eve industrialists will be manufacturing everything we use. Not to mention the burn rate at which we go through gear is off the charts. Dust as it has been envisioned for launch in the minutes is a huge isk bonus to any industrialist that wants in on the action. Mind you it is free to play so maybe they have no plans to give us influence over any of the in game resources, I suppose there would be some some logic to that. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.08.07 22:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:(edit: serious question asked in a tongue-in-cheek manner) .. would you crap your pants and rage-quit if Pl was only available through Dust514 assets?
Answered in a serious manner: CCP requiring me to invest in a) a new game (Dust) and b) a game console that I would use ONLY for one purpose in one game would honestly have me reconsidering my commitment to CCP Games in general.
Edit: working on the assumption that DUST will NOT be free. |
Auferre
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 00:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Serious answer:
If PI becomes a DUST-only thing, I'll shift to whatever new market opens up. People will undoubtedly keep blowing up each other's stuff - I'll undoubtedly figure out a way to make money supplying them.
(That won't be through playing DUST myself, though. I'm not buying a PS3 just to get involved.) |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp.
NightSong Directorate
46
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Posted - 2012.08.08 05:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:blood hauler wrote:It would be like if ccp gave eve players control over dust players ammo supply.
The outcry from dust players would be huge Pretty sure Eve industrialists will be manufacturing everything we use. Not to mention the burn rate at which we go through gear is off the charts. Dust as it has been envisioned for launch in the minutes is a huge isk bonus to any industrialist that wants in on the action. Mind you it is free to play so maybe they have no plans to give us influence over any of the in game resources, I suppose there would be some some logic to that.
I think you're missing the key point blood was making with his comment.
Removing PI from eve (and making it available in dust) is still removing it from the game. It becomes an items that is equal to NPC items with mostly outrageous prices. It doesn't matter its still sold from dust players. It would literally mean anyone who has a POS (any wh corps, vast majority of nullsec, etc) would now need to rely on some outside game to supply their POS equipment, as well as POS fuel. At that point whats the point of evening having it available in dust; it might as well just be sold by NPC's.
There is a fine line between bridging the two games. Having the two games interact with one another is a great idea, but removing parts of one game, and then expecting (assuming, hoping) the other game supply's them, and at regular levels is just a tinder box waiting to ignite. Why not move all ship manufacturing to dust? Or ammo, or mods, etc.
Currently players can buy pos items or pos fuel. If these prices go out of control we can make them ourselves/mine ice. If they want to save money they can make it themselves, or they can sell it. By removing the ability to make the items in eve players would then be in a situation where if players in dust just don't want to do PI the entire galaxy starbase infrastructure would collapse. It would also have huge effects on t2 production, all manufacturing in general, move materials, wh items, bpo research, etc. |
Itis Zhellin
Zass Proteus Logistik
Northern Associates.
15
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Posted - 2012.08.08 12:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:(edit: serious question asked in a tongue-in-cheek manner) .. would you crap your pants and rage-quit if Pl was only available through Dust514 assets?
So the idea is that all planets would be controlled only by Dusties and only they could mine the planet resources and sell it to the EVE players? So if we want some PI stuff we need to pay lots of isk or hire other dusties to take over some planets and sell the stuff to us?
Moving further, it means that some big a$$ alliances could take over huge areas and even have total control over these resources? I dont know.. its a very risky business. This would turn PI into something similar to moon harvesting where only some alliances have total control over the business. Also would cut off a huge load of players for whom PI is a big resource of income and also fun.
Even if EVE its a sandbox game, this trend to push and force people to join massive alliances and turn everything into extreme violence and hate is just too much. I liked the Dust concept, the risk that someday some little people would land on my planets trying to blow stuff up so I need to hire others to defend it or drop some stuff on their heads. But giving out the entire PI system to Dust and make it available only to big as$ alliances is not fair nor healty. The game is changing and seems like we dont have too much to do about than to like it or get lost. Its not too much sand left in the box with so many rules and changes around. |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Intrepid Crossing
2
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Posted - 2012.08.08 12:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Imho PI must still be managed by eve players because we are PC superrior gaming race. :D PS3 shooter gamers would not be appealed by such a long term and nonviolent task like is PI management.
PI is currently my main income source and i would be seriously enraged by its loss. I live in sov space so i dont think that some small people can just like that land in the middle of our teritory, conquer planet and start selling PI products.
I think it might start in highsex where is just no way how to compete with someone else setting up PI in your spot on the planet. (in lowsec you can compete by shooting and setting up POCO and in sov by taking soverginity) |
John Cant
Disturbed Blood Astrometrics
0
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Posted - 2012.08.29 11:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Previously on the market we had planetary vehicles, small arms etc and other npc goods which were all basic trade goods and were then moved over into PI as items that could be made in the factories on the planets. As an industrialist I want to tap into the dust market but I don't want the control of the market to be completely in the lap of the pods.....
Hopefully, the bpo's for the dust items will require pi goods (ie planetary vehicles as the chassis for the tanks/drop ships etc) so these goods will be traded more, there will be more call to use pi to manufacture them and it will give dust-bunnies more places to fight over.
We'll see...
JC. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
957
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Posted - 2012.08.29 14:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
When PI and Dust were first talked about, people were saying "Will I have to worry that Ill wake up one morning and find all my planet based assets were blown up by a 10 year old with a PS3?" CCP has said no. I do PI in High sec and in W. Both are places where Dust is not currently scheduled to be. My operations makes me 2 billion a month. So yes, I would not want that arbitrarily blown up by a 10 year old with a PS3.
But what they have said is there may be something.
For example if you set up PI in a district controlled my friendly Dusters, you get more production.
If dusters could set up their own PI installations in parallel with eggers... there better be new ways to use all the stuff produced or it would crash the market. But I could see that happening.
Currently there is no way to transfer PI material from one player to another without launching it from a planet. Maybe that could be a place for dusters: intra-planetary transport.
I could also see that if a planet district was controlled by hostile dusters, then I would be blocked from placing PI there, although existing stuff would remain. This would allow dusters to take a planet and charge rent.
There can be interaction with dusters getting access to resources without taking them away from us eggers. I await to see what actually happens.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
294
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Posted - 2012.08.29 18:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
So yeah, pi is important to eve in general. As for dust... Eve is a big worlds. If some dust bunnies try to keep me from doing pi on a planet, I would move else where. There are plenty of planets out there.
Just do PI in WH's where there are no Dust Bunnies
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EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
164
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Posted - 2012.08.29 22:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adoniah Carrefour wrote:Please for the feedback? I apologize if I was too flippant in my first post. We have a debate going on the closed Beta forums that I can't get into because of NDA but I really would like to know. I have never done Pl .. is it an important source of income for a large portion of the industrial base? Would its loss represent a game-breaker? Just looking for a little feedback to take home to my fellow Dust-Bunnies.
No. PI is loose change. A bit of spare ISK for not much effort. |
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