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Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:42:00 - [31] Edited by: Milo Caman on 30/01/2011 13:43:45 Originally by: John Revenent Again half the story.. and wrong information. To clarify, the joint Ishukone-Raata and ILF Fleet fielding 63 pilots 51 of them operating in Intaki, and there was no attempt to contact me or Ishukone-Raata from any ANN nor Anshar "Journalist". Again with the attempts at defamation. This article isn't even particularly negative regarding you and your lackeys. I know you're running a campaign to stifle the free media, but what gives? I consider multiple conversation attempts and mails an attempt, or perhaps you block, pirates? Evidently not QCats though. We had multiple people in Intaki local checking, and I'm extremely sure our numbers were correct. IRED show their incompetence. Again. ---
Syfa Caldari Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:47:00 - [32] Originally by: John Revenent Again half the story.. and wrong information. To clarify, the joint Ishukone-Raata and ILF Fleet fielding 63 pilots 51 of them operating in Intaki, and there was no attempt to contact me or Ishukone-Raata from any ANN nor Anshar "Journalist". To be completely honest, I don't think that we could trust you not to be completely duplitious with any information you do give us, You have far too vested of a personal interest in this, You don't get straight stories from people with a lot at stake like your corporation, That's why we had no less than five people on scene. Impressive fleet discipline if I must say so myself.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Syfa Originally by: John Revenent Again half the story.. and wrong information. To clarify, the joint Ishukone-Raata and ILF Fleet fielding 63 pilots 51 of them operating in Intaki, and there was no attempt to contact me or Ishukone-Raata from any ANN nor Anshar "Journalist". To be completely honest, I don't think that we could trust you not to be completely duplitious with any information you do give us, You have far too vested of a personal interest in this, You don't get straight stories from people with a lot at stake like your corporation, That's why we had no less than five people on scene. Impressive fleet discipline if I must say so myself. Since you have clearly pre-judged this issue (and I-RED), how exactly are you an unbiased journalist?
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:44:00 - [34] Originally by: John Revenent Again half the story.. and wrong information. To clarify, the joint Ishukone-Raata and ILF Fleet fielding 63 pilots 51 of them operating in Intaki, and there was no attempt to contact me or Ishukone-Raata from any ANN nor Anshar "Journalist". Why would these "journalists" contact you or any other IRED pilot John? Since they had no intention of including anything we might have said, contacting us is just wasted effort on their part.
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:51:00 - [35] The author of this article, like the others, was a freelancer. We contacted all involved parties for comments, and used the ones we received. I sense you will not acknowledge journalism as "unbiased" until you are not mentioned anywhere, no matter what actions you take. Then again, your approval is not required. If you dislike the news, stop reading.
John Revenent Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:54:00 - [36] Edited by: John Revenent on 30/01/2011 14:55:01 No mail attempts were made, no conversation attempts were made while I was in Capsule... Either your COMMs are damaged, or you are lieing through your teeth. I know what one seems more likely. Why even say I was unavailable when your journalists had no intention of contacting me.. hmm?
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 15:02:00 - [37] As I've repeatedly stated, they're not 'our' journalists. The majority are Freelancers. I'd avoid questioning my integrity, Mr. Revenant, when yours is hardly anything to go by. lies-of-ommision and working with known criminal groups whilst openly criticizing others is not particularly- well. I understand you're frustrated that IRED can no longer screw up without people noticing, but times have changed. As for Pre-judging, how can you openly and comfortably claim that we do it, whilst doing it yourself? I doubt you've even read the article, rather, you probably received it through some IRED propaganda tube, warped and blackened to fit someone's little agenda. An agenda, I might add, that doesn't seem to be getting very far. ---
Syfa Caldari Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 15:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Marrano Cardosa Since you have clearly pre-judged this issue (and I-RED), how exactly are you an unbiased journalist? I'm not a journalist, I've written exactly one article for the news site in the last year. To think your collective corporations have the audacity to complain about our level of fact checking.
Julianus Soter Gallente Moira.	Posted - 2011.01.30 16:01:00 - [39] Mr. Revenent, I have analyzed the evidence presented to my corporation regarding attempts to contact yourself regarding comment on this incident. Mr. Caman's claims appear to be accurate. Now, the situation may be is that you've blocked all communications and evemails, thus blinding yourself to these requests. I would recommend that you deactivate such settings, so that it may be possible for the media to get your part of the story when your organization conducts large-scale military operations in Placid.
Sparkahn Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 16:08:00 - [40] Originally by: John Revenent Edited by: John Revenent on 30/01/2011 14:55:01 No mail attempts were made, no conversation attempts were made while I was in Capsule... Either your COMMs are damaged, or you are lieing through your teeth. I can confirm conversation attempts were made. Perhaps there's something wrong at your end? Nevertheless, I would argue that you made your attitude towards the situation quite clear in the Intaki local channel: Quote: [03:18:47] John Revenent > I wish to thank both the Protectorate Forces and Federal Forces for your aid toward the ILF. While I cannot speak for them but I am sure they have the same mutual feeling as Ishukone-Raata.[sic] A key part of the story here was about the involvement of the militia forces. You said yourself that you cannot speak for them, but clearly ANN can. To be honest, I think you should actually start reading the articles rather than skimming through and smacking ANN whenever you see "I-RED" written.
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 19:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Milo Caman As I've repeatedly stated, they're not 'our' journalists. The majority are Freelancers. Originally by: Syfa To be completely honest, I don't think that we could trust you not to be completely duplitious with any information you do give us The whole lot of you smell like cat's **. You know what causes cat-** smell?
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:13:00 - [42] Originally by: Syyl'ara Yet another of your fellow Anshar criminal brothers betrays this attempt at spin: If it's so evidently spin and propaganda, why are you getting so het up about it? Originally by: Syyl'ara Journalists report, readers decide. When journalists start deciding before-hand what to report or not report, they are manipulating the story to lead the readers to a conclusion they want them to have. This is only forgivable when the article clearly admits itself as an "editorial opinion". I fail to see how this is critical of the ILF or IRED, and yet you continue to beleive that it is? As previously stated, I highly doubt you've read the article through properly. Originally by: Syyl'ara The name of the attacking alliance is Payment on Demand, not Deep Axion (or Deep Axiom). That was an honest mistake. However, a number of pilots involved were from the corporation Deep Axion, I will look to correct that. Originally by: Syyl'ara Structures were incapacitated, not destroyed. You're nitpicking. If those are the only two things you can come up with, then evidently it's a fairly good article. Originally by: Syyl'ara Re: Militia Numbers Check your facts. I certainly have. Originally by: Syyl'ara I guess we'll see if my response to Milo's clearly biased comment at the tail of the article makes it past moderation. As long as they don't get caught in the spam filters, comments are always approved. How dare you imply that I'd be as Hypocritical as Ishkuu-Raata or the ILF. ---
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:25:00 - [43] Author: Seki Ebura Cannot be found in CONCORD database. So this supposedly independent author attempted to contact I-RED for comment? Did they request someone else attempt to contact them on their behalf or...? I'm confused.
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:31:00 - [44] Edited by: Milo Caman on 30/01/2011 20:32:33 Originally by: Syyl'ara Author: Seki EburSeki a Cannot be found in CONCORD database. So this supposedly independent author attempted to contact I-RED for comment? Did they request someone else attempt to contact them on their behalf or...? I'm confused. I personally attempted to contact John Revenant, and other AI and ANN members tried the same some time afterward. All of our attempts were blocked or rejected. In regards to the QCats and Draketrain comments, those were acquired by an AI member who happened to be on the scene at the time. I will admit now, that Seki is a pseudonym. However, for her safety, the real identity of the author will not be published. I can assure you however, that she does not work for Anshar Incorporated or any of our blues. ---
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Milo Caman If it's so evidently spin and propaganda, why are you getting so het up about it? Surely you can do better than a re-dressed version of "u mad?". Originally by: Milo Caman I fail to see how this is critical of the ILF or IRED, and yet you continue to beleive that it is? As previously stated, I highly doubt you've read the article through properly. It doesn't have to be about ILF or IRED for me to be displeased with a lack of objectivity. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara The name of the attacking alliance is Payment on Demand, not Deep Axion (or Deep Axiom). That was an honest mistake. However, a number of pilots involved were from the corporation Deep Axion, I will look to correct that. Fair enough. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Structures were incapacitated, not destroyed. You're nitpicking. If those are the only two things you can come up with, then evidently it's a fairly good article. Nitpicking? The onus is on ANN to get the facts right, not over-state the damage. There is a third, learn to count. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Re: Militia Numbers Check your facts. I certainly have. Again, only through methods akin to statistics manipulation can you conclude as you have. I find it very telling that when I question the reporting of a supposedly "independent third party journalist" it is Anshar representatives repeatedly standing up to defend them as if it is were their own credibility needing defense and not someone else's. This is an age-old game of "one hand washing the other."
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Syyl''ara on 30/01/2011 20:45:25 Originally by: Milo Caman I will admit now, that Seki is a pseudonym. However, for her safety, the real identity of the author will not be published. I can assure you however, that she does not work for Anshar Incorporated or any of our blues. Is anyone else getting dizzy?
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 20:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Syyl'ara It doesn't have to be about ILF or IRED for me to be displeased with a lack of objectivity. And yet that appears to be the issue you're bringing up? Originally by: Syyl'ara Again, only through methods akin to statistics manipulation can you conclude as you have. I find it very telling that when I question the reporting of a supposedly "independent third party journalist" it is Anshar representatives repeatedly standing up to defend them as if it is were their own credibility needing defense and not someone else's. This is an age-old game of "one hand washing the other." I take a deal of pride in owning a such a successful and high-quality News Network. Why would I idly stand by whilst despots and their lackeys ineptly try to defame it? ---
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara It doesn't have to be about ILF or IRED for me to be displeased with a lack of objectivity. And yet that appears to be the issue you're bringing up? It does not follow that my stating opposition in this instance means it is the only objection I have. I don't feel the need to opine publicly when the subjects discussed involve groups I am not affiliated or involved with. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion in those cases, however. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Again, only through methods akin to statistics manipulation can you conclude as you have. I find it very telling that when I question the reporting of a supposedly "independent third party journalist" it is Anshar representatives repeatedly standing up to defend them as if it is were their own credibility needing defense and not someone else's. This is an age-old game of "one hand washing the other." I take a deal of pride in owning a such a successful and high-quality News Network. Why would I idly stand by whilst despots and their lackeys ineptly try to defame it? In a free and open society, one has the right to confront their accusers directly. In this case, we can only get a response from the accuser's puppet-masters. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Is anyone else getting dizzy? No No, that's just you. You'll find the blood rushes to your head when you're embarrased. Just me? You were able to conclude that within moments? You have a poll or other evidence to present to back that up? Regardless, it is the spin that's making me dizzy.
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Syyl'ara In a free and open society, one has the right to confront their accusers directly. In this case, we can only get a response from the accuser's puppet-masters. In a free and open society, the media are allowed to point out the failures whoever they like. Get used to it. Oh, and had you considered the possibility that such an individual doesn't want to deal with all the bile and hate the people opposed to it so blindly spout? Originally by: Syyl'ara Regardless, it is the spin that's making me dizzy. Ahaha, very witty. I'd suggest you consider submitting an article or two, but evidently you've already pre-judged ANN and Anshar Incorporated without actually looking. ---
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:24:00 - [50] Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara In a free and open society, one has the right to confront their accusers directly. In this case, we can only get a response from the accuser's puppet-masters. In a free and open society, the media are allowed to point out the failures whoever they like. Get used to it. They may point out failures, but do so openly without hiding behind obfuscatory walls in a manner that invites open discussion rather than one-way outlets that only serve to accuse. There is a subtle -but significant- difference between objecting to the accusations and objecting to the method chosen to deliver them. Originally by: Milo Caman Oh, and had you considered the possibility that such an individual doesn't want to deal with all the bile and hate the people opposed to it so blindly spout? Real journalists put their names and reputations on the line. Responses in opposition to their reporting are a natural part of the trade. If they don't want to deal with critical review, they should find another line of work. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Regardless, it is the spin that's making me dizzy. Ahaha, very witty. I'd suggest you consider submitting an article or two, but evidently you've already pre-judged ANN and Anshar Incorporated without actually looking. Quite the opposite, my conclusions on the credibility of ANN have come as a direct result of looking.
Benjamin Shepherd Caldari Intaki Liberation Front	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:30:00 - [51] All of this controversy would be averted if only Mr. Caman would state that ANN is an opinion news organization; there are multiple facets of reportage, one being opinion articles.
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:31:00 - [52] Edited by: Milo Caman on 30/01/2011 21:32:06 Originally by: Syyl'ara They may point out failures, but do so openly without hiding behind obfuscatory walls in a manner that invites open discussion rather than one-way outlets that only serve to accuse. And yet here we are discussing it, your point? Originally by: Syyl'ara Real journalists put their names and reputations on the line. Responses in opposition to their reporting are a natural part of the trade. If they don't want to deal with critical review, they should find another line of work. Again. Free-lanc-er. Originally by: Syyl'ara Quite the opposite, my conclusions on the credibility of ANN have come as a direct result of looking. Does anyone have a opposite to 'Rose-Tinted Spectacles' I could use? Originally by: Benjamin Shepherd All of this controversy would be averted if only Mr. Caman would state that ANN is an opinion news organization; there are multiple facets of reportage, one being opinion articles. Unless otherwise stated, articles are factual, not opinion. ---
John Revenent Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:43:00 - [53] Originally by: Milo Caman Edited by: Milo Caman on 30/01/2011 20:32:33 I personally attempted to contact John Revenant, and other AI and ANN members tried the same some time afterward. All of our attempts were blocked or rejected. In regards to the QCats and Draketrain comments, those were acquired by an AI member who happened to be on the scene at the time. I will admit now, that Seki is a pseudonym. However, for her safety, the real identity of the author will not be published. I can assure you however, that she does not work for Anshar Incorporated or any of our blues. More lies, I received no such mails or attempts. I only have 2 pilots blocked and they are not you. I am surprised that a man such as Mr. Soter would be so easily fooled, with his recent endeavors against the Sansha initiative...
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:44:00 - [54] Edited by: Syyl''ara on 30/01/2011 21:45:56 Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara They may point out failures, but do so openly without hiding behind obfuscatory walls in a manner that invites open discussion rather than one-way outlets that only serve to accuse. And yet here we are discussing it, your point? I'm discussing it with someone who has repeatedly insisted that he doesn't control the content other than to filter out "spam". You are trying to have it both ways, now. If you don't control the content, then discussing it with you is not an example of ANN being open to criticism. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Real journalists put their names and reputations on the line. Responses in opposition to their reporting are a natural part of the trade. If they don't want to deal with critical review, they should find another line of work. Again. Free-lanc-er. Non-sequitur. Freelancer or not, the author is not defending their work. The only defense being offered comes from an organization with a conflict-of-interest in the matter. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Quite the opposite, my conclusions on the credibility of ANN have come as a direct result of looking. Does anyone have a opposite to 'Rose-Tinted Spectacles' I could use? You don't get to decide how much research I have or haven't done. Although your claiming so fits the pattern of putting forth a parade of ignorant statements and demanding they be taken as gospel. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Benjamin Shepherd All of this controversy would be averted if only Mr. Caman would state that ANN is an opinion news organization; there are multiple facets of reportage, one being opinion articles. Unless otherwise stated, articles are factual, not opinion. Your insistence falls far short of the burden or proof I need to be assured of this. When facts I have personally observed differ from the supposed "facts" presented in the articles, I conclude otherwise. You've admitted factual errors you will correct in previous replies, then turn around and again claim infallibility.
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:46:00 - [55] Originally by: John Revenent More lies, I received no such mails or attempts. I only have 2 pilots blocked and they are not you. I beg to differ. We did indeed try to contact you, and no attempts got through. Perhaps there was a problem with the NeoCom. Or Perhaps you have 'issues' talking to the free press. I'd like to be able to assume the first one, but that's becoming harder and harder with each post you make. ---
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 21:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Milo Caman As I've repeatedly stated, they're not 'our' journalists. The majority are Freelancers. I'd avoid questioning my integrity, Mr. Revenant, when yours is hardly anything to go by. lies-of-ommision and working with known criminal groups whilst openly criticizing others is not particularly- well. I understand you're frustrated that IRED can no longer screw up without people noticing, but times have changed. As for Pre-judging, how can you openly and comfortably claim that we do it, whilst doing it yourself? I doubt you've even read the article, rather, you probably received it through some IRED propaganda tube, warped and blackened to fit someone's little agenda. An agenda, I might add, that doesn't seem to be getting very far. Then I will question your integrety. I have yet to see a completely truthful statement from you, and I did read the article. At best its a distortion of what happened. And yes, one is not really a journalist if one refuses to hear one side of the story. As the reporter in this case ADMITTED doing.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 22:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Julianus Soter Mr. Revenent, I have analyzed the evidence presented to my corporation regarding attempts to contact yourself regarding comment on this incident. Mr. Caman's claims appear to be accurate. Now, the situation may be is that you've blocked all communications and evemails, thus blinding yourself to these requests. I would recommend that you deactivate such settings, so that it may be possible for the media to get your part of the story when your organization conducts large-scale military operations in Placid. What "evidence" is this? There was not attempt at contact, and as I am listed as a secondary contact any reasonable attempt at getting our side would have included an email to me (or cc'd me on one to John Revenent), and I have none of the people on this thread blocked in any fashion.
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.30 22:02:00 - [58] Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara I'm discussing it with someone who has repeatedly insisted that he doesn't control the content other than to filter out "spam". You are trying to have it both ways, now. If you don't control the content, then discussing it with you is not an example of ANN being open to criticism. I don't control the content. I believe that a pro-ILF writer is a regular there. One Levi Saul? If you wish to submit articles under a pseudonym, be my guest, otherwise continue trolling ANN's announcement thread. Ok, you don't control the content. Then discussing it with you is not an example of ANN openly discussing the content. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Non-sequitur. Freelancer or not, the author is not defending their work. The only defense being offered comes from an organization with a conflict-of-interest in the matter. Why would anyone hide from the proverbial Lynch Mob, I wonder? You continue to conflate asking hard questions with forming a mob. Journalists in other organizations openly question institutions of power who could snuff their lives out...without hiding. Why is it different here? Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara You don't get to decide how much research I have or haven't done. Although your claiming so fits the pattern of putting forth a parade of ignorant statements and demanding they be taken as gospel. I have an odd feeling that if ANN suddenly went Pro ILF, you would still continue to attack it as before. But that's unfounded. Just a gut feeling. Another example of you just asserting something you have absolutely no way of knowing. I don't want a journalistic outlet being "pro" (or "anti") anything, just to be clear. Quote: Considering I built my first corporation on such feelings and it was a major success- well, that's not really relevant because I'm always spouting lies due to the fact that I fit into the your definition of 'Dirty Pirate'. Another non-sequitur. Originally by: Milo Caman Originally by: Syyl'ara Your insistence falls far short of the burden or proof I need to be assured of this. When facts I have personally observed differ from the supposed "facts" presented in the articles, I conclude otherwise. You've admitted factual errors you will correct in previous replies, then turn around and again claim infallibility. Irrelevant. I can sleep easy in know that the articles are factual. You can continue to take issue with it until you explode. It won't change anything. Examples of factual errors you've admitted to are irrelevant to the discussion of how factually accurate the articles are? Interesting.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 22:03:00 - [59] Originally by: Syfa Originally by: Marrano Cardosa Since you have clearly pre-judged this issue (and I-RED), how exactly are you an unbiased journalist? I'm not a journalist, I've written exactly one article for the news site in the last year. To think your collective corporations have the audacity to complain about our level of fact checking. Yes, I know you aren't a journalist, as your article and your comments here clearly show. And yes, since you or your employers are trying to present your work as that of a journalist, we have every right to expect actual fact checking of the things you assert to be true. Thank you for again admitting that this isn't a work of journalism but rather one of propoganda.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2011.01.30 22:05:00 - [60] Originally by: Sparkahn Originally by: John Revenent Edited by: John Revenent on 30/01/2011 14:55:01 No mail attempts were made, no conversation attempts were made while I was in Capsule... Either your COMMs are damaged, or you are lieing through your teeth. I can confirm conversation attempts were made. Perhaps there's something wrong at your end? Nevertheless, I would argue that you made your attitude towards the situation quite clear in the Intaki local channel: Quote: [03:18:47] John Revenent > I wish to thank both the Protectorate Forces and Federal Forces for your aid toward the ILF. While I cannot speak for them but I am sure they have the same mutual feeling as Ishukone-Raata.[sic] A key part of the story here was about the involvement of the militia forces. You said yourself that you cannot speak for them, but clearly ANN can. To be honest, I think you should actually start reading the articles rather than skimming through and smacking ANN whenever you see "I-RED" written. But you totally misrepresented what the militia forces role in the action was. And got the numbers wrong as well.

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