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Worth more as killmails than people

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omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:51:00 - [1] I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets?
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:55:00 - [2] I agree you are a better killmail then person -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Hellsmoke	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:56:00 - [3] Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? Taking a wild guess I'd say around 50-60%
Eugene Spencer Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:56:00 - [4] Edited by: Eugene Spencer on 25/10/2010 22:58:37 "Bitter vets" is a term used by noobs with an inferiority complex, who think it gives their argument some kind legitimacy. edit: fixed grammar ===== I have a specific comb for my beard.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Eugene Spencer Edited by: Eugene Spencer on 25/10/2010 22:58:37 "Bitter vets" is a term used by noobs with an inferiority complex, who think it gives their argument some kind legitimacy. edit: fixed grammar Does that make me a noob with an inferiority complex?
deathkiller95	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:08:00 - [6] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Originally by: Eugene Spencer Edited by: Eugene Spencer on 25/10/2010 22:58:37 "Bitter vets" is a term used by noobs with an inferiority complex, who think it gives their argument some kind legitimacy. edit: fixed grammar Does that make me a noob with an inferiority complex? Yes (sure is same*** in here, but at least noone else will get this omgfreeepeenboost!)
Goremageddon Box Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:09:00 - [7] bitter noob _______________________ Hottest Character Ever.
yani dumyat Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:33:00 - [8] The OP makes me wonder if they are devaluing people or overvaluing killmails, never understood either attitude myself. Undervaluing people before the kill has happened is stupid, some of the strongest friendships I've seen in eve came from a friend of mine randomly ganking a carebear, we're still friends with those bears and they are still supplying our ships 2 years on. Not sure how you define a person's worth either. Is it by power, influence, wealth or ability to have a laugh on coms? When you say that someone is worth more as a killmail than a person how do you judge that? Why is a killmail so important to you? Are you a sociopath? _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Eugene Spencer Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:34:00 - [9] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Originally by: Eugene Spencer Edited by: Eugene Spencer on 25/10/2010 22:58:37 "Bitter vets" is a term used by noobs with an inferiority complex, who think it gives their argument some kind legitimacy. edit: fixed grammar Does that make me a noob with an inferiority complex? I dunno man... I don't know you. All I'm saying is you're using a term which generalises and makes you look like an idiot. ===== I have a specific comb for my beard.
Jenny Biomass	Posted - 2010.10.25 23:57:00 - [10] It's a fact of life in eve. Business as usual. For this thread, expect a smattering of "HTFU" from the bored players and total indifference from the rest. Everyone is out to get you. That's part of the game design.

lebanski	Posted - 2010.10.26 00:02:00 - [11] Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question?
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2010.10.26 00:13:00 - [12] Totally depends on the situation.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.10.26 03:58:00 - [13] I only say that about lowsec afk autopiloters. I like me Recruiter
Razor Tuna	Posted - 2010.10.26 04:12:00 - [14] This just in. The achura have smaller feet than any other face. Comming soon in Incarna.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.26 04:33:00 - [15] For awhile i was thinking of starting a business in allowing people to blow up my main for the killmails. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2010.10.26 07:04:00 - [16] Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question? hmm, you lost a noobship fight, and like the good man that you are you returned to the scene of your defeat, head held hi......oh no, wait a minute, you didn't. you fetched a hurricane to take out another players noobship. And then sat outside the station sending him an evemail apology. Then when you were rightly banned from the EVE-RADIO chat channel by the DJ organising this competition, you made threats of physical violence in the local chat channel. At that point your whole corp was banned as is pretty much standard practice, so you went home, head held somewhat lower but nonethless happy with your revenge atta....oh no, wait, you didn't do that either. No, you called in 5 friends so that the 6 of you big brave chaps could gank one guy. Don't come in here waving your killmails around pretending that its because you value killmails above people, you are here because you know that you made a complete and utter tit of yourself in front of 360 odd players, all of whom now regard you, your corp and your alliance with pretty much the same level of respect as they would do a paedophile. Be a man and admit that you didnt like getting beaten, that your ego is so fragile that losing in a noobship fight caused you to go into shock and that your subsequent behaviour shows you to be not only an unworthy pilot, corp mate or alliance member but more importantly a human being. Grow a spine, grow some balls and learn your lesson.
Ishina Fel Caldari Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.26 09:35:00 - [17] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 26/10/2010 09:37:34 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Oh BURN I usually despise forum drama, but this seriously made my day Signature? What signature?
Sjugar	Posted - 2010.10.26 09:50:00 - [18] I have trouble understanding the topic. Value killmails, value people. I value every human being. Eve is a game of shooting spaceships and while some people treat it different to me it is. If I fight someone that's not because I don't like him, but because the game and the choices we made in game put us against each other. I have respect for all the people who I fight against, because without opponents there would be none. And while the loudmouths on the forums are very vocal, the majority I know isn't shouting on the forums and respects the other players regardless what side. Ignore those dumbasses shouting "fail-fit" or "fail-alliance" they're not worth anyones time. Just shoot ships and if you see some who needs help (less the optimal fitting), once just once, open a friendly convo and try help him. (And then do it again.)
Naibasak	Posted - 2010.10.26 10:16:00 - [19] Edited by: Naibasak on 26/10/2010 10:18:46 After 3 years of crushing disappointments, getting backstabbed many times over, falling for scams and ploys... I can proudly say I have learnt nothing. I still convo noob bait battlecruisers in low-sec and ask their pilots if they are lost, and wish to be shown the way back to empire space. I will still pay any newbish pilots that try to kill me the cost of their ship and modules, despite insurance. And I will still lend relatively valuable ships and modules to people I know might not be trustworthy. The fact I put myself in a position to be scammed, backstabbed and disappointed at almost every available opportunity only enhances the gameÆs experience for me. Being an un-caring emotionless ennui is as close as this game gets to playing on easy, and I would never allow myself to choose that path.
masternerdguy Gallente Valor Inc. Valor Empire	Posted - 2010.10.26 10:31:00 - [20] anyone I don't know is better as a killmail than a person

Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.26 10:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question? hmm, you lost a noobship fight, and like the good man that you are you returned to the scene of your defeat, head held hi......oh no, wait a minute, you didn't. you fetched a hurricane to take out another players noobship. And then sat outside the station sending him an evemail apology. Then when you were rightly banned from the EVE-RADIO chat channel by the DJ organising this competition, you made threats of physical violence in the local chat channel. At that point your whole corp was banned as is pretty much standard practice, so you went home, head held somewhat lower but nonethless happy with your revenge atta....oh no, wait, you didn't do that either. No, you called in 5 friends so that the 6 of you big brave chaps could gank one guy. Don't come in here waving your killmails around pretending that its because you value killmails above people, you are here because you know that you made a complete and utter tit of yourself in front of 360 odd players, all of whom now regard you, your corp and your alliance with pretty much the same level of respect as they would do a paedophile. Be a man and admit that you didnt like getting beaten, that your ego is so fragile that losing in a noobship fight caused you to go into shock and that your subsequent behaviour shows you to be not only an unworthy pilot, corp mate or alliance member but more importantly a human being. Grow a spine, grow some balls and learn your lesson. I like you
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.26 10:41:00 - [22] Originally by: masternerdguy anyone I don't know is better as a killmail than a person That's the thing, you don't know most people "as a person" but you're sure it can make a killmail. That said, I think podding is more like killing people, ships is just ships. At least to me it feels that way, I really dislike podding.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.26 10:48:00 - [23] I blow up ships to see if it is anything of value in the wreck. I pod people because of the lovely squishy sound.
Muul Udonii Minmatar THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.26 11:04:00 - [24] A pod is worth 1 point on a killboard. A pod is worth up to billions in tears. You have to kill them all, just in case you get an expensive one. And you'll never actually know. You just hope.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.10.26 14:52:00 - [25] Oh for gods sake, get a grip. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Max Cetera	Posted - 2010.10.26 15:12:00 - [26] OP current value is a cyno-kestrel killmail.
lebanski	Posted - 2010.10.26 15:33:00 - [27] Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 15:37:20 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question? hmm, you lost a noobship fight, and like the good man that you are you returned to the scene of your defeat, head held hi......oh no, wait a minute, you didn't. you fetched a hurricane to take out another players noobship. And then sat outside the station sending him an evemail apology. Then when you were rightly banned from the EVE-RADIO chat channel by the DJ organising this competition, you made threats of physical violence in the local chat channel. At that point your whole corp was banned as is pretty much standard practice, so you went home, head held somewhat lower but nonethless happy with your revenge atta....oh no, wait, you didn't do that either. No, you called in 5 friends so that the 6 of you big brave chaps could gank one guy. Don't come in here waving your killmails around pretending that its because you value killmails above people, you are here because you know that you made a complete and utter tit of yourself in front of 360 odd players, all of whom now regard you, your corp and your alliance with pretty much the same level of respect as they would do a paedophile. Be a man and admit that you didnt like getting beaten, that your ego is so fragile that losing in a noobship fight caused you to go into shock and that your subsequent behaviour shows you to be not only an unworthy pilot, corp mate or alliance member but more importantly a human being. Grow a spine, grow some balls and learn your lesson. thanks you for you're thoughts on this matter , however, it should be noted: 1) No physical threats were knowingly issued by my corporation or associates, I want to make this abudantly clear and have the chat logs to prove this. 2) I lost the duel yes, however that does not remove the ship being red to me and I am wel within the game mechanics to come back and shoot it. I emphasise this point of it being a game. 3) the loot was returned to enable the pilot to return to his tournament, had a new hull been requested I would have happily supplied one of the many Rifter hull's I have lying about the place (also please note thata rifter is a frigate, not a noobship(reaper), it consists of approximately 2 extra metres of duct tape) 4)I was indeed banned from the channel for my despicable actions. Thats a fair response. 5) the DJ was ganked/trolled by my corp mates in repsonse to banning them on the grounds of my actions. they wern't very happy about this and as such took measures to show you their discontent (what did you expect in a 0.5 system in an unfitted vexor?) 6) Refering to myself or my associates as "paedophiles" is a personal and very very serious allegation and in breach of the EULA. there is a difference between trolling and slander. I also find it very disturbing that someone can relate an interent spaceship game to one of the most vile sadistic and evil crimes on the planet. your ignorance is quite frankly shocking. 7) The DJ's live 1 hour emo rage ON AIR WAS the funniest thing I have witnessed in a very very long time, and I would like to thank him for providing New Eden with quality entertainment while we go about playing this GAME. 8) I would like to also point out that I cheated in the tournament by the very means that I mailed the DJ about prior to the tournament, which he dismissed outright. I look forward to your reply, have a nice day.
Atedar Kerane Silentium Mortalitas	Posted - 2010.10.26 15:50:00 - [28] Originally by: lebanski 1) No physical threats were knowingly issued by my corporation or associates, I want to make this abudantly clear and have the chat logs to prove this. I'd just like to share that particular log in question: Quote: [ 2010.10.25 21:40:32 ] Pepper'2025 > RIP OFF UR HEAD AND ** DOWN UR THROAT Pepper'2025 is in no way affiliated with our corporation. Some of my corp mates did act like jerks in local chat but there was no threats: Quote: [ 2010.10.25 21:23:42 ] Allison A'vani > GET PODDED MOTHER **ER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:30:38 ] lebanski > trolololololol [ 2010.10.25 21:30:46 ] lebanski > sad face [ 2010.10.25 21:40:17 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD BRO???? [ 2010.10.25 21:40:20 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD??? [ 2010.10.25 21:40:22 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD!! [ 2010.10.25 21:40:24 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:40:27 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:40:30 ] Allison A'vani > U MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:41:52 ] Allison A'vani > U BE MAD BRO!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:42:24 ] Allison A'vani > COOL STORY BRO!!!!!! [ 2010.10.25 21:42:31 ] Allison A'vani > PLZ do [ 2010.10.25 21:42:36 ] Atedar Kerane > Shut up Allison I podkilled DJWiggles because he banned me and my entire corporation for something some nutty corp member did. If I get banned from a channel for no reason, I feel I have to provide a reason, and so I did. Apart from that I appriciate the effort by EVE Radio I think they are doing a great job :) Also, what was this thread about again? Oh right, yes, I believe DJWiggles is worth more as a killmail than as a player.
Calfis	Posted - 2010.10.26 15:52:00 - [29] Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 15:37:20 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question? hmm, you lost a noobship fight, and like the good man that you are you returned to the scene of your defeat, head held hi......oh no, wait a minute, you didn't. you fetched a hurricane to take out another players noobship. And then sat outside the station sending him an evemail apology. Then when you were rightly banned from the EVE-RADIO chat channel by the DJ organising this competition, you made threats of physical violence in the local chat channel. At that point your whole corp was banned as is pretty much standard practice, so you went home, head held somewhat lower but nonethless happy with your revenge atta....oh no, wait, you didn't do that either. No, you called in 5 friends so that the 6 of you big brave chaps could gank one guy. Don't come in here waving your killmails around pretending that its because you value killmails above people, you are here because you know that you made a complete and utter tit of yourself in front of 360 odd players, all of whom now regard you, your corp and your alliance with pretty much the same level of respect as they would do a paedophile. Be a man and admit that you didnt like getting beaten, that your ego is so fragile that losing in a noobship fight caused you to go into shock and that your subsequent behaviour shows you to be not only an unworthy pilot, corp mate or alliance member but more importantly a human being. Grow a spine, grow some balls and learn your lesson. thanks you for you're thoughts on this matter , however, it should be noted: 1) No physical threats were knowingly issued by my corporation or associates, I want to make this abudantly clear and have the chat logs to prove this. 2) I lost the duel yes, however that does not remove the ship being red to me and I am wel within the game mechanics to come back and shoot it. I emphasise this point of it being a game. 3) the loot was returned to enable the pilot to return to his tournament, had a new hull been requested I would have happily supplied one of the many Rifter hull's I have lying about the place (also please note thata rifter is a frigate, not a noobship(reaper), it consists of approximately 2 extra metres of duct tape) 4)I was indeed banned from the channel for my despicable actions. Thats a fair response. 5) the DJ was ganked/trolled by my corp mates in repsonse to banning them on the grounds of my actions. they wern't very happy about this and as such took measures to show you their discontent (what did you expect in a 0.5 system in an unfitted vexor?) 6) Refering to myself or my associates as "paedophiles" is a personal and very very serious allegation and in breach of the EULA. there is a difference between trolling and slander. I also find it very disturbing that someone can relate an interent spaceship game to one of the most vile sadistic and evil crimes on the planet. your ignorance is quite frankly shocking. 7) The DJ's live 1 hour emo rage ON AIR WAS the funniest thing I have witnessed in a very very long time, and I would like to thank him for providing New Eden with quality entertainment while we go about playing this GAME. 8) I would like to also point out that I cheated in the tournament by the very means that I mailed the DJ about prior to the tournament, which he dismissed outright. I look forward to your reply, have a nice day. Wow, counter-burn ftw +1
Grimme Necrofiend	Posted - 2010.10.26 15:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9174 http://www.gmzsite.com/mode/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175 6 destroyers: 6 mil Sec Status: a few hours of 0.0 ratting DJ's pod kill and 1 hour on air emo rage: Priceless Does this answer the authors question? you are here because you know that you made a complete and utter tit of yourself in front of 360 odd players, all of whom now regard you, your corp and your alliance with pretty much the same level of respect as they would do a paedophile. Oh dear, and here I was reading and respecting your views & thinking you were making some valid points until you compared an online gaming alliance to child molesters. EVE - it's SERIOUS BUSINESS. Oh wait, it's not - it's just a bit of fun. Grow up, and think before you make stupid comparisons. You're one step away from invoking Godwin's Law. As for the rest of the topic...killmails.

Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.26 16:16:00 - [31] False Dichotomy implied. If I kill another player's -character- (i'm not going to kill the player - real world serial killer ?) that means I'm playing the game with them. This is a pvp environment and when you pvp you are engaging with other players throughout the world. A gank is truly better than a consensual duel, because a duel is context breaking. A gank furthers the immersion level of the game...a loss of a ship that cost hours to aquire makes ships valuable in the context...an attack builds on the sense that this is a dangerous virtual universe that we inhabit. The fights also encourage the cooperation between players...to protect against such ganks by scouting for each other or to join a coporation that gives mutual support. I can go on, Others might see it differently... but thats not the point... If some people see it as a false dichotomy it is a false dichotmy for them. Its parobably a small percentage of the population who is trying to annoy -players- (not characters) - if that small group of "griefers" is motivated by hurting _players_ not chracters..thats their primary goal and the km would just be icing on the cake
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.26 16:31:00 - [32] Shouldnt this be in C&P or am I lost again?
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.26 16:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso If I kill another player's -character- (i'm not going to kill the player - real world serial killer ?) that means I'm playing the game with them. You're playing the game against them, but not really with them. EVE is a social game, and you don't socialise at all. You just destroy their ship to make your killboard bigger, and harvest some delicious tears. You don't CARE whether they are showing promise as an amazing PvPer, or that sort of thing. You don't CARE if they are really interesting to chat to. You just gank them and set auto-reject on and reply to anything in local with LOL GB2WOW. You don't bother trying to get to know people. They are worth more as killmails. Edit: You doesn't mean you in particular, you might not be like this but many people are. Consider the sort of people who invite noobs to their corporation just to gank them a prime example.
Ascendic Lyonesse. The Makhai	Posted - 2010.10.26 17:04:00 - [34] This thread is full of "You 'aint my baby's daddy ni**r! slap* kick throw chair" To the likes of which may even rival Jerry Springer. I like it.
Gabriel Karade Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.10.26 17:13:00 - [35] Yes, Killmails - As I don't get paid by the hour... -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
dasdadada	Posted - 2010.10.26 17:49:00 - [36] Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 15:37:20 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Originally by: lebanski Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 00:04:00 8) I would like to also point out that I cheated in the tournament by the very means that I mailed the DJ about prior to the tournament, which he dismissed outright. I look forward to your reply, have a nice day. so you cheated and lost?
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2010.10.26 17:55:00 - [37] Originally by: lebanski stuff You made only one valid point in your response and that was to do with my use of a particular word. So I will state clearly that I am sorry for throwing it around in that fashion. See, thats what a man does when he has done something wrong, he apologises and mans up. The rest of your post is still a weak ass justification for the fact that when you got beaten fair and square in a competition, you decided that childish revenge was the best course of action. As I pointed out quite clearly, and as was stated in game and by the DJ on air at the time, if you had left it at that everything would have carried on as normal. Now as for your corp mates, they are seemingly as simple minded as yourself, deciding that because the DJ had banned the corp that instead of asking why, they decided to turn up and behave in much the same fashion as you. Now I want to be clear here. your corpmates got a temporary ban from a chat channel in a GAME about internet spaceships, this apparently was so upsetting that revenge was the only recourse, how adult you all are. Now as for the DJ's "ranting" being amusing.Hmmm, I'm not even going to bother explaining why thats wrong. And I'm just going to post one last thing here "8) I would like to also point out that I cheated in the tournament" I think that pretty much sums you up doesn't it?
lebanski	Posted - 2010.10.26 17:55:00 - [38] The irony is almost cliched, and I can't help but chuckle at it.
Troll Bridgington SWARTA Mostly Clueless	Posted - 2010.10.26 18:12:00 - [39] Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? 26
lebanski	Posted - 2010.10.26 18:25:00 - [40] Edited by: lebanski on 26/10/2010 18:27:15 Originally by: Aeronwen Carys You made only one valid point in your response and that was to do with my use of a particular word. So I will state clearly that I am sorry for throwing it around in that fashion. See, thats what a man does when he has done something wrong, he apologises and mans up. The rest of your post is still a weak ass justification for the fact that when you got beaten fair and square in a competition, you decided that childish revenge was the best course of action. As I pointed out quite clearly, and as was stated in game and by the DJ on air at the time, if you had left it at that everything would have carried on as normal. Now as for your corp mates, they are seemingly as simple minded as yourself, deciding that because the DJ had banned the corp that instead of asking why, they decided to turn up and behave in much the same fashion as you. Now I want to be clear here. your corpmates got a temporary ban from a chat channel in a GAME about internet spaceships, this apparently was so upsetting that revenge was the only recourse, how adult you all are. Now as for the DJ's "ranting" being amusing.Hmmm, I'm not even going to bother explaining why thats wrong. And I'm just going to post one last thing here "8) I would like to also point out that I cheated in the tournament" I think that pretty much sums you up doesn't it? Ahh a contructed response. I refer you to EVE 101: There is no such thing as a fair fight in Eve. The DJ presented himself as a target of opportunity, had he spoken to the CEO after implementing the ban (temp or not) as is customary with the diplomacy the DJ seems to expect then perhaps this wouldn't have happened, or perhaps it would have anyway. We're pirates, we shoot people for ISK and lols our characters are immoral and immature, we have fun playing the EVE Online game in this manner as do many others and will continue to do so. Also, please clarify the error in my amusement. Feel free to mail me in game.

Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.26 19:35:00 - [41] Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? People in my corp are worth a lot. People in my alliance are worth a fair bit. Blues, it's about equal. Everyone else can turn in to a little triangle full of free stuff. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.26 19:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? People in my corp are worth a lot. People in my alliance are worth a fair bit. Blues, it's about equal. Everyone else can turn in to a little triangle full of free stuff. Assuming your corp and alliance have closed/invite only recruitment then. Or does simply hitting an "apply to join" button raise someone's value in your eyes?
Kiritsubo Ritual Suicide	Posted - 2010.10.26 19:52:00 - [43] Kills on Minmatar are only worth three-fifths as much.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2010.10.26 20:12:00 - [44] Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? Never really saw the value of either as far as Eve is concerned, TBH. I only look at killmails to see wtf I lost when I stupidly ran into that gate camp. As far as people vs killmails, I don't understand how this has anything to do with playing an internet spaceship game for enjoyment. It's all an abstract time-sink, and I guess if you want to emotionally attach yourself to something in Eve, it's your prerogative. Sometimes I find my reaction to what just occurred interesting, other times I don't. Meh.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.26 21:14:00 - [45] Originally by: Ghengis Tia Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? Never really saw the value of either as far as Eve is concerned, TBH. I only look at killmails to see wtf I lost when I stupidly ran into that gate camp. As far as people vs killmails, I don't understand how this has anything to do with playing an internet spaceship game for enjoyment. It's all an abstract time-sink, and I guess if you want to emotionally attach yourself to something in Eve, it's your prerogative. Sometimes I find my reaction to what just occurred interesting, other times I don't. Meh. Its a fine gage for me. I agree its a sandbox game. I have other goals of finding ways to earn more isk/day with less time as a challenge in itself. I have goals to sometimes just own a market for the heck of it to compete head on head with another player. The kill board is a useful tool to judge onseself... only good to judge others if they're plaing with the same goals as yourself... some people like to fly faction fit ships or go ratting in characters and their kb stats will be usually much worse for their choice but they don't care and they don't need to IF their corp hasn't made that agame goal. You need goals in games... like you said they are all abstractions, over 95% effiecncy doesn't mean a lot to me either, but for me, keeping that up is a useful hurdle that keeps winds and losses contextually valuable. Simliarly chalkding up total kills is another hurdle ...the ablsolute # relative to OTHERS doesn't mean a lot to me... but "personal best" and stuff is sort of a fun thing the same way its fun to check out the batting average of a favorite baseball player , or era of a pitcher.
Captain Muscles Caldari Clan Farthammer	Posted - 2010.10.26 21:44:00 - [46] I definitely value people more than killmails. I never post the killmails, but I always scoop the corpse. ____________________ Captain Muscles sez:
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.26 21:58:00 - [47] I'll add for those that choose to use improving their KB stats as goal, it is a challenge. Sometimes the fights are interesting in themselves... sometimes they're not... but thats not the whole thing they have to offer. For many players .. the joy is in the hunt. Killling NPCs is of less interest than a player industrial , certainly not for the combat challenge.. and for most pvpers who'd do that, not for the tears . Many people might think hunting animals in the real world is cruel . It might be logical for most of those people to call hunters cruel based on their actions, not on their intentions. But if you posed the question, "why do hunters hunt?" saying that they liked hunting because they liked being cruel would be a stonewall unwillingness to try to understand people not like you. Its not easy to find kills. There are random rewards for killing a defenesless indusrtial just like playing slot machines entertain millions of people ... well enough... but I think if you tried, you could understand other peoples approach even if you dodn't feel the same way.
Al3xii	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Troll Bridgington Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? 26 i say three fitty.
Creepy CousinRoger	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:44:00 - [49] I would much rather have a killmail than talk to anyone.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:53:00 - [50] Originally by: omgfreemoniez I was wondering how many people hold this attitude toward other players in EVE. Exactly how bitter are the bitter vets? I'm more like a bitter lemon person... do I count?

Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Many people might think hunting animals in the real world is cruel . It might be logical for most of those people to call hunters cruel based on their actions, not on their intentions. But if you posed the question, "why do hunters hunt?" saying that they liked hunting because they liked being cruel would be a stonewall unwillingness to try to understand people not like you. Quoting this for a really good point. Also, if suiciding someones cruiser could consistently get me the kind of reaction that was generated in the form of this thread and the DJs alleged QQing, I'd do it a lot more often. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:44:00 - [52] Originally by: Dian'h Might Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Many people might think hunting animals in the real world is cruel . It might be logical for most of those people to call hunters cruel based on their actions, not on their intentions. But if you posed the question, "why do hunters hunt?" saying that they liked hunting because they liked being cruel would be a stonewall unwillingness to try to understand people not like you. Quoting this for a really good point. It's not really. I understand why people enjoy hunting, it's part of our instincts after so many years of needing to, but still think hunters are idiots because they have fridges full of food at home and are just shooting up the wildlife for kicks. Our ancestors didn't hunt needlessly, only pansy modern men do. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Grog Barrel	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:25:00 - [53] paying few millions for the link of the "ON AIR rage"
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.10.27 01:16:00 - [54] I think Shakespear would call this "A Comedy of Ego's". ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Shotgun X Ore Mongers BAT PHONE	Posted - 2010.10.27 02:58:00 - [55] Pubbies have no feelings and exist solely for my entertainment.
Thronde United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:10:00 - [56] Edited by: Thronde on 27/10/2010 03:12:27 Yep, pretty much. Everyone in EVE looks so much better to me as a blue flash of light. Myself included. Hence why I fail-bombed myself the other day in my Manticore. EDIT: And in response to my bitterness, ask again in 18 months when they return EVE to it's former glory I hope...
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Dian'h Might Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Many people might think hunting animals in the real world is cruel . It might be logical for most of those people to call hunters cruel based on their actions, not on their intentions. But if you posed the question, "why do hunters hunt?" saying that they liked hunting because they liked being cruel would be a stonewall unwillingness to try to understand people not like you. Quoting this for a really good point. It's not really. I understand why people enjoy hunting, it's part of our instincts after so many years of needing to, but still think hunters are idiots because they have fridges full of food at home and are just shooting up the wildlife for kicks. Our ancestors didn't hunt needlessly, only pansy modern men do. Did you read anything? Hunting can be the stupidist thing in the world.. but INTENT of hunters comes from what is in their MIND not what the reality is (even if you were to prove the reality). Intent is not about right and wrong .
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Dian'h Might Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Many people might think hunting animals in the real world is cruel . It might be logical for most of those people to call hunters cruel based on their actions, not on their intentions. But if you posed the question, "why do hunters hunt?" saying that they liked hunting because they liked being cruel would be a stonewall unwillingness to try to understand people not like you. Quoting this for a really good point. It's not really. I understand why people enjoy hunting, it's part of our instincts after so many years of needing to, but still think hunters are idiots because they have fridges full of food at home and are just shooting up the wildlife for kicks. Our ancestors didn't hunt needlessly, only pansy modern men do. Did you read anything? Hunting can be the stupidist thing in the world.. but INTENT of hunters comes from what is in their MIND not what the reality is (even if you were to prove the reality). Intent is not about right and wrong . Nothing of what i said was about morality. I think where we differ is i believe humans are capable of seeing things objectively, and choose not to. How they prefer to see things is largely a justification of their intent. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Malaclypse Muscaria	Posted - 2010.10.27 04:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Professor Tarantula I think where we differ is i believe humans are capable of seeing things objectively, and choose not to. How they prefer to see things is largely a justification of their intent. And I think you over-estimate the capability of humans to see things objectively, free from their own subjective "reality-tunnels", as well as under-estimate just how much the latter colours and shapes our perception of things and events out there.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.27 05:08:00 - [60] Originally by: Malaclypse Muscaria Originally by: Professor Tarantula I think where we differ is i believe humans are capable of seeing things objectively, and choose not to. How they prefer to see things is largely a justification of their intent. And I think you over-estimate the capability of humans to see things objectively, free from their own subjective "reality-tunnels", as well as under-estimate just how much the latter colours and shapes our perception of things and events out there. We could very much sink into the base arguments of free-will vs predetermination, and...well been there done that. I do believe in different opinions that are opposed... to each other. And I see them not in a "nothing means anything then way" or that by implication they each are less true. I see almost all complex arguments of reality , morality, government more as an engineer would calculate the maximum speed of a car. Weight and engine thrust might be the dominant components, yet friction with the road is a counter component, as is air resitance another. If the begining or end of the course has a higher elelvation gravity could either slow the car or determine (in part) how fast it will go. So , because I hold that sort of view of the world, and believe like physics, also can (not always) go philosphy,... I can get agravated when ideas of influence are rejected while people are seeking an absolute. I also get equally agravated when people argue that because there are counter arguments, they can all be dimissed as "thats your opinion, this is mine' If you look at things as a physics problem, you may disagree on magnitude of each influence yet people can embrace with an open mind the factors opposed to their own and weigh in good faith what influence they have, even if very small.

Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 05:20:00 - [61] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Sometimes the fights are interesting in themselves... sometimes they're not... but thats not the whole thing they have to offer. For many players .. the joy is in the hunt. Killling NPCs is of less interest than a player industrial , certainly not for the combat challenge.. and for most pvpers who'd do that, not for the tears . Then I do wonder, an industrial can't fight back, where exactly is the challenge in that? And if you destroy one I can see the joy of looting it because it can be quite rewarding, but why podding the pilots? In a way EVE promotes hostility and paranoia, part of it is because it doesn't really show pilots as people (pehaps that will change a little after incarna), partially because there's no way to see if someone is hostile. Bad standings can be made undone by ratting, if I fly through lowsec I have no idea if that cruiser is just ratting for ISK or preying upon other people. So why take the risk?
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.10.27 05:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Then I do wonder, an industrial can't fight back, where exactly is the challenge in that? The challange would be in finding it and catching it. Originally by: Jennifer Starling And if you destroy one I can see the joy of looting it because it can be quite rewarding, but why podding the pilots? Because there's also quite a bit of joy to be had from seeing some idiot who takes the game too seriously take the game too seriously. Originally by: Jennifer Starling In a way EVE promotes hostility and paranoia, part of it is because it doesn't really show pilots as people How about avatars driven by webcam so I can see the howls of rage comming from the tear stained face of the hauler pilot I just ganked and podded as he types some fanmail to me? - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.27 06:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Sometimes the fights are interesting in themselves... sometimes they're not... but thats not the whole thing they have to offer. For many players .. the joy is in the hunt. Killling NPCs is of less interest than a player industrial , certainly not for the combat challenge.. and for most pvpers who'd do that, not for the tears . Then I do wonder, an industrial can't fight back, where exactly is the challenge in that? And if you destroy one I can see the joy of looting it because it can be quite rewarding, but why podding the pilots? n a way EVE promotes hostility and paranoia, part of it is because it doesn't really show pilots as people (pehaps that will change a little after incarna), partially because there's no way to see if someone is hostile. Bad standings can be made undone by ratting, if I fly through lowsec I have no idea if that cruiser is just ratting for ISK or preying upon other people. So why take the risk? err,, the joy is in the hunt... that means they are hard to find and require patience and forsight to catch one unawares... ... but read the above for that so not to rehash. I stipulated that challenge of the kill wasn't an issue, so why bring it up when I agree to that inadvance but brought up another vector on top of that. And because economics is such a large part of the game, it makes it interesting to me at least, if there is a risk factor in commerce... ... I'd prefer it to be players that can be scouted against, or which you maybe able to survive if you fleeted with a remot rep gang... I rather that then randomn space storms.. but I liken it more to New England whaling ship owners or really many other 18th and 19th century traders.... there were high odds of losing a ship.. I think it was over 1 in 5 for year long cruises.. sure most of it was weather, but if instead its player acting as brigands why not? The idea of shooting at each others ships as a pretext to a game is no more cruel than landing a child landing on another's piece isn "sorry" or "trouble" and sending them back to the begining putting them behind in the game. Is a game tha sets someone back by an agressive attack bad by definition?
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.10.27 06:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Jennifer Starling And if you destroy one I can see the joy of looting it because it can be quite rewarding, but why podding the pilots? on the podding,, to send them back to base just like you send a piece back to start by landing on it in a childs game? Why don't the just pass by instead of landing on them? Why if they're going to win , would they want to win by a lot? Because its a competition, and when you play lots and lots of games you want to see different permutations play out ? Or, back to the economic warfare scenario (which is a lot to the game...and part of why many pvp players prefer this to a first person shooter or WoW where people just pick themselves up and start at square one with very little cost. If someone's next few days of game play would be the same whether or not they died the game loses its sense of a persistent world thats more than a first person shooter and more than s "sims" city parrallel individual play.


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