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The guns on my Mael are strangely uneffective.

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JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.11.03 18:13:00 - [1] I tried 1400mm arties too and now I'm using 800mm ACs but for a very strange reason they under perform tragically. Example: I am sitting at anywhere between 40km and 70km from my target frigate rat, which is travelling at around 100-200m/s, with an angular speed of 0.002 rad/s, well within my tracking speed of 0.065 (0.118 in case of the 1400s). My optimal combined with the fall off is above 90km, which is why I'd have expected my guns to hit MUCH HARDER. But noooo, half of the times I miss completely and sometimes I do 300 damage. That's crap. I remember perfectly how a few months ago, before my break from EVE, I used to run a very similar Mael and I would one-shot snipe frigates in the heaviest sanctums from 80km away. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME? Here's my fitting. All support skills are at level 4 or 5. [Maelstrom, PVE AC Gank fit] 8x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I (Phased Plasma L) 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tracking Computer II (Optimal Range) Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800) X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Gyrostabilizer II 2x Tracking Enhancer II Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I ------
Enduros Desard's Nation Cha0s Theory	Posted - 2010.11.03 18:26:00 - [2] Looks like you are shooting at guristas, for which ACs are not a good option. Realistically your targets would need to be under 30km for you to put any significant damage on them. With AC you will have something of 40km falloff and 4km optimal. Not good for rats 70km away. No wonder you can't hit anything My advice is go back to 1400s, ungroup your guns to avoid overkill and fire away. Also you will need new rigs because 1400s don't fit without a PDU as it is and 3 projectile rigs will drive the grid use way up. You should have like 35km range and 70km or so falloff, which is good enough for shooting up to maels locking range. - This one time, at gate camp, I shot a shuttle...
Matalino	Posted - 2010.11.03 18:39:00 - [3] Edited by: Matalino on 03/11/2010 18:44:27 Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre Example: I am sitting at anywhere between 40km and 70km from my target frigate rat, which is travelling at around 100-200m/s, with an angular speed of 0.002 rad/s, well within my tracking speed of 0.065 (0.118 in case of the 1400s). My optimal combined with the fall off is above 90km, which is why I'd have expected my guns to hit MUCH HARDER. But noooo, half of the times I miss completely and sometimes I do 300 damage. That's crap. You must be missing a zero on the tracking speed of your 1400's. There is no way that you can get your 1400's to track at 0.118 rad/sec. 0.0118 rad/sec is realistic given the fitting you described. As for why you keep missing: With the 1400's you are well past your the tracking of your turrets. To hit for 80% base DPS you need to have an effective angular velocity less than 1/2 of your turret's tracking. With a sig radius around 1/10 of your turret's sig resolution, that frigate has an effective angular velocity around 0.02 which is almost 2x your turret's tracking. That gives you around 6% of your base DPS. With the 800's your range is between optimal + falloff and optimal + 2x falloff, that gives you between 40% and 6% of your base DPS. Again you need to be within optimal + 1/2 falloff to get atleast 80% of your base DPS. Recommendation: use drones to kill the frigates!
Redshift XIII Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.03 18:40:00 - [4] Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre I tried 1400mm arties too and now I'm using 800mm ACs but for a very strange reason they under perform tragically. Example: I am sitting at anywhere between 40km and 70km from my target frigate rat, which is travelling at around 100-200m/s, with an angular speed of 0.002 rad/s, well within my tracking speed of 0.065 (0.118 in case of the 1400s). My optimal combined with the fall off is above 90km, which is why I'd have expected my guns to hit MUCH HARDER. But noooo, half of the times I miss completely and sometimes I do 300 damage. That's crap. I remember perfectly how a few months ago, before my break from EVE, I used to run a very similar Mael and I would one-shot snipe frigates in the heaviest sanctums from 80km away. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME? Here's my fitting. All support skills are at level 4 or 5. [Maelstrom, PVE AC Gank fit] 8x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I (Phased Plasma L) 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tracking Computer II (Optimal Range) Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800) X-Large Shield Booster II 3x Gyrostabilizer II 2x Tracking Enhancer II Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Uhhh dude there is no way in hell youre optimal, falloff, or even optimal+falloff is anywhere CLOSE to 90km with AC's on a Maelstrom....
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.11.03 19:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Redshift XIII Uhhh dude there is no way in hell youre optimal, falloff, or even optimal+falloff is anywhere CLOSE to 90km with AC's on a Maelstrom.... I beileve he meant with Artillery... I use a similar setup. 8x 800mm Auto's 1x X-Large Sheild Boost 1x Heavy Cap Booster 1x 100mn Afterburner 1x EM Hardener 1x Therm Hardener 1x Invun Feild 2x Gyro's 3x TE's 2x CCC Rigs 1x EM Rig For Gurista's the EM Rig Does not do a lot, but I mission in Ammatar so I get a lot more Sansha/Blood. The Afterburner helps take out Battleships at 50 as for Frigs I usually hit for 2-400 at 55-45. When they are around 35 they get one shoted. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.11.03 19:15:00 - [6] Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 03/11/2010 19:19:53 Yes, I was referring to the fitting where I was using 1400s. The one with the 800s is the second one I tried thinking something was wrong with the tracking. And yes, I did miss out a zero. It was 0,0118, but even then, when my target has an angular speed of 0.002, I should be able to at least hit the damn things, no? ------
Matalino	Posted - 2010.11.03 19:26:00 - [7] Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre And yes, I did miss out a zero. It was 0,0118, but even then, when my target has an angular speed of 0.002, I should be able to at least hit the damn things, no? If you were shooting at a battleship, then yes. If it is a frigate, then no! Signature radius and signature resolution are multipled by the tracking comparison. A frigate is around 1/10 the size of your turrets, so the frigate is effectively 10x faster. That gives you a comparison of 0.0118 rad/s for your guns and 0.02 rad/s for the frigate. If you prefer you can think of your turrets as having a 10x tracking penalty against frigates, in which case is it 0.00118 rad/s for your turrets and 0.002 rad/s for the frigate: you get the same ratio. You are going to miss almost every shot on a target with 2x your turret's tracking.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof	Posted - 2010.11.03 21:39:00 - [8] Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof on 03/11/2010 21:41:12 better mention this. last night in my ac fit mach i was 8km only 8km from a angel rat battle ship. i was missing half the time other half was 300 damage or so. this same fit will get 2k damage volleys to bc + bs half the time. the game miscalculated the ships distance and was acting as if it was at 60+ km from me. it bay me a client bug but it was really ****ed up. the ship had a .01 radial volicty and i wasusing 800s with a .06 tracking speed. i wasted a entire clip on that bs before it fianlly got normal damage
JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.11.04 08:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof on 03/11/2010 21:41:12 better mention this. last night in my ac fit mach i was 8km only 8km from a angel rat battle ship. i was missing half the time other half was 300 damage or so. this same fit will get 2k damage volleys to bc + bs half the time. the game miscalculated the ships distance and was acting as if it was at 60+ km from me. it bay me a client bug but it was really ****ed up. the ship had a .01 radial volicty and i wasusing 800s with a .06 tracking speed. i wasted a entire clip on that bs before it fianlly got normal damage This seems very likely, as it is almost exactly like my case. Sitting at 70k with the following fitting: [Maelstrom, Guristas Ratting Maelstrom] 8x 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I (Titanium Sabot L) Large Shield Booster II 2x Shield Boost Amplifier I 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II 3x Gyrostabilizer II 3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I 5x Vespa II 5x Hornet II 5x Hornet II and firing at a frigate going 200m/s with an angular speed of 0.002 rad/s, I miss most of the times. The tracking speed of my guns is 0.0142 which is 7 times higher than my target's angular speed. Is this a bug then? ------
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2010.11.04 08:45:00 - [10] Dunno whats up with your AC's, work fine for me in pvp, not done pve with them BUT artys did get a huge buff to alpha and clip size in trade for tracking im sure?

JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.11.04 14:08:00 - [11] Having changed the ammo I use from Titanium Sabot to Phased Plasma I see a huge improvement. Actually, now my guns perform as expected. I guess Titanium Sabot is just crap, even though Guristas' weak point is kinetic damage. ------
Matalino	Posted - 2010.11.04 14:34:00 - [12] Edited by: Matalino on 04/11/2010 14:38:31 Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre and firing at a frigate going 200m/s with an angular speed of 0.002 rad/s, I miss most of the times. The tracking speed of my guns is 0.0142 which is 7 times higher than my target's angular speed. Is this a bug then? It is certainly not a bug with the game. However, it might be a bug with your reading comprehension. It is the fact that a frigate has a signature radius that is one tenth the signature resolution of your guns, and therefore you need to have a tracking speed that is more than 10 times the angular velocity of the frigate if you want to hit more than 50% of the time. Put the numbers into the tracking formula and see for yourself: with the conditions you provided your chance to hit should be around 1 in 4.
JeanMichel Bizarre Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.11.04 15:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Matalino It is the fact that a frigate has a signature radius that is one tenth the signature resolution of your guns, and therefore you need to have a tracking speed that is more than 10 times the angular velocity of the frigate if you want to hit more than 50% of the time. Originally by: Matalino with the conditions you provided your chance to hit should be around 1 in 4. Then, how do you explain that now, everything is fine? Being anywhere between 45 - 70 km away, I can one-shot frigates and destroyers. And that's even with a half rack (4) of 1400s. In really don't understand what happened before but I was missing most of the times and when I did land a hit it was a measly 200, or something like that. ------
Matalino	Posted - 2010.11.04 16:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Matalino on 04/11/2010 16:24:09 Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre Then, how do you explain that now, everything is fine? Being anywhere between 45 - 70 km away, I can one-shot frigates and destroyers. And that's even with a half rack (4) of 1400s. In really don't understand what happened before but I was missing most of the times and when I did land a hit it was a measly 200, or something like that. You could have gotten lucky. Angular velocity might have been different. The acutal signature of the frigate might have been different: ie the rat had different attributes or maybe his MWD was on. If you were shooting at destroyers this time instead of frigates it would make a huge difference as they have a much large signature radius. In any case, what you were describing earlier sounds like everything was working perfectly. There was nothing in what you documented to indicate that anything was broken. Here is a graph that might help you understand it better. With the first scenario you provided you were somewhere around the 200% mark. With the second scenario you were around the 140% mark. If you look at the slope of the graph, you should be able to see how a further improvement in the tracking of a situation would significantly improve your damage output.
Rin Chan	Posted - 2010.11.04 18:36:00 - [15] There is a bug, i dont know if its client or server side but flying a blaster proteus in missions i use a web and mission ships are not showing up where they actually are according to the server. For example i was flying towards a cruiser and at 9km tried to web it but the game said it was too far away, guns are also not hitting right and wrecks are spawning up to 6/7km away from where the ship died. I've asked in the ingame help channel and other ppl are having the same problem, tho i havent been on since tuesday night so i dont know if they've fixed it or not.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.04 18:57:00 - [16] Quote: and wrecks are spawning up to 6/7km away from where the ship died. I've had that happen before, but as I rarely loot or salvage since the great loot nerfs back in the day I didnt pursue it.
Petrov Kreigt Caldari Project Nemesis	Posted - 2010.11.04 19:47:00 - [17] The only issue i had with running missions with a maelstrom was the amount of ammo i burned through... If you are against guristas id use barrage wit a few trackingenhancers/maybe a computer but 1400s vs frigs isnt a great match up, light drones ftw
Gunner Stahl United Kings R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.04 20:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Petrov Kreigt but 1400s vs frigs isnt a great match up, light drones ftw Running anoms in 0.0 I can one-shot frigs at double my optimal with meta 4 1400's. The point where I can't hit them effectively anymore is coincidentally where my drone range falls. Yes, they don't hit quite as hard as I think they should for the long-ass ROF you deal with- but teaming up with a drake or another bs with a better ROF is a recipe for WIN as far as anoms go. _____ CRAZY GUNNER'S NEW & USED SHIPS Set Your Course for THASHKARAI LOWEST PRICES IN TASH-MURKON!
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.04 21:43:00 - [19] pro-tip: one-shot approaching mwd'ing frigates as they have (as good as) 0 angular velocity and the mwd makes their sig bloom nicely. Whenever I run lvl4 missions in my vargur (which has 70km falloff with regular short-range ammo) I can one-shot ANY npc frigate as long as it's 30+km away, if they get too close they start their orbit and your guns can't track as well anymore.. which is why with EVERY SINGLE mission I fly I ALWAYS kill off all the frigs (closest -> furthest) and THEN worry about anything else. You can opt ofc. to just ignore frigs with your guns and let drones take care of them (seeing as the mael has bigger dronebay than varg that shouldnt be an issue, tho tbh 25m3 dronebay is more than enough). Personally I usually don't even launch my drones, as frigs instapop from my gun fire. The only times drones are necessary is when you land right on top of a group of frigs. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..


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