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Vol Arm'OOO
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Posted - 2010.11.04 19:42:00 -
[1]
Lets say that I orbit a target and point it at 20km. I'm using a mwd so i'm moving at about 2500k'ish. The target tries to burn away from me to get out of my point range.
How does eve resolve the conflict of competing movment instructions -- in this case move away v. stay in orbit at 20k?
If I told my ship to stay at 20k in orbit shouldnt it compenstate and try to stay at 20k even if the other toon is burning away? Did the use of my mwd gimp my agility preventing me from adjusting automatically to his attempt to get away?
Thxs in advance.
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Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:07:00 -
[2]
Your ship will try to follow the target to keep the range you specified, but at the same time yes your agility is gimped while the mwd, or even an ab, is running. This effect is more pronounced the faster you are going. You may specify a 20km orbit but at those speeds you are probably orbiting closer to 22km as well. The faster your target is moving the harder it will be to maintain your ideal orbit as well. Only practice will tell you what works best for a specific ship ofc :) |
Vol Arm'OOO
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vol Arm''OOO on 04/11/2010 20:22:15
 Originally by: Zombie Jeebus
Your ship will try to follow the target to keep the range you specified, but at the same time yes your agility is gimped while the mwd, or even an ab, is running. This effect is more pronounced the faster you are going. You may specify a 20km orbit but at those speeds you are probably orbiting closer to 22km as well. The faster your target is moving the harder it will be to maintain your ideal orbit as well. Only practice will tell you what works best for a specific ship ofc :)
Thxs for responding.
Are their skills or implants that will help your agility? Are they worth getting. Also how would you respond to someone who trys to burn away, considering you're trying to keep your angular velocity up so you don't get hit. Would you simply spam the orbit button or would you try and manually fly towards them by clicking at an angle to them?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:20:00 -
[4]
All commands are more like suggestions of what you'd like your ship to do rather than absolute rules to be strictly enforced.
Everything is calculated in 1-second intervals, and each ship's actual movement preferences are constantly adjusted every second too.
As far as (as you call them) "conflicting orders" goes, ships don't care about orders given to other ships, they only care about their own velocity (amount/direction) and the position of the target object, nothing more, nothing less.
If you're NOT on//near the "desired orbit" but further away, the ship will make an attempt to follow it by trying to move on a path that's tangent to the desired orbit.
If you're inside it, it will try to move directly away from the center until it reaches orbit, then do a ninety degree to start orbiting. Needless to say, this second part is not quite optimal as far as orbiting goes.
If you tell your ship to orbit at 20 km around a stationary target, it will actually orbit at almost exactly 20 km, but only if you're barely moving.
Any increase in speed will actually result in a wider orbit... with you MWDing at 2.5km/sec, depending on ship agility, I'd probably expect you to orbit anywhere between 21 km and 26 km away. More agile ships will have a tighter orbit, closer to what you asked for.
Now, if the target is moving, it can get a lot weirder, and depends on what exactly the enemy is trying to do (move away, come closer, or himself attempts to orbit you at a different range).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vol Arm'OOO
Are there skills or implants that will help your agility? Are they worth getting?
Spaceship Command and Evasive Maneouvering, which are totally worth getting to L5 anyway.
Implants, meh, very, very situational. In most cases, pure extra speed trumps slightly better agility, and besides, attribute implants with secondary effects are quite expensive... and the agility ones only come in lowgrade.
Quote:
Also how would you respond to someone who trys to burn away, considering you're trying to keep your angular velocity up so you don't get hit. Would you simply spam the orbit button or would you try and manually fly towards them by clicking at an angle to them?
No need to "spam" the orbit button. Pressing it once is more than enough. If they fly away, this WILL make you "fly at an angle" to them.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Vol Arm'OOO
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:35:00 -
[6]
Thanks guys for the responses. I think I get it. One more thing though -- is there some way to control the plane and direction of your orbit? For instance lets say your near a roid field or your target has drones out and you don't want to path into it/them, can you control the direction and plane of your orbit?
Also I notice that sometimes I'll switch directions when I click orbit - for instance, I'll be at full speed and hit my mwd and suddenly find myself going the opposite way or i'll be at 20k and want to orbit closer at 17k and find myself going the opposite way. I assume that the direction change causes me to lose speed. Is there anyway to prevent this? Is it just a graphics issue?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.04 20:45:00 -
[7]
Theoretically, your current direction (line) and current target location (point) should designate exactly one plane, and that's the plane you'd be using to orbit, and the motion preference rules described before (tangent when "outside" vs directly away from center if "inside") apply to that particular plane.
Practically, thanks to the 1-second processing interval AND the roughly 1-second (give or take 1 secind) delay between you issuing a command and the ship ACTUALLY following it, things can get a bit wonky at times... from "selecting" the "wrong" plane, to picking a reversal instead of a tangent and so on.
The LESS orbit commands you give and the less likely you are to be in the wrong spot when you give them, the better for you. Ideally, you should first make sure you're really outside the desired orbit range before issuing a new orbit command.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 23:32:00 -
[8]
OK ... now ... suppose you and your target both have a MWD - and you try to orbit him. What is going to happen? You sure as hell aren't going to be orbiting him if you're in any where near the same size ships.
Thus - Stassis Webbifiers.
The Holy Trinity of PVP (before scramblers nerfed MWD's) was the Warp Scrambler, Stassis Webifier and Micro Warp Drive.
1) You close to warp scrambling range at an angle - so you're not giving him a dead on easy target coming right at him.
2) Turn on the warp scrambler - you do this BEFORE turning on the Web as the web will make it easier for him to warp out.
3) Close to Web range. Turn on the web - this should slow him down so you can orbit him. The 10k range on your web is what restricts you. Scramblers have a range of about 7.5k and Disruptors about 20k. So you can use a Disruptor and get more range but that won't do you any good if he's to fast to orbit. As mentioned - when you set your orbiting range - set it for less than the maximum you want to be at - as it will probably exceed whatever range you set. Thus - if you set your Orbit at 5000meters - then you will probably be orbiting out at six or seven.
Now ... if HE has a web too - then you get down to your Tank/DPS vs. his Tank/DPS ...
But that's generally how it's all done.
Of course ... what you want for weapons here - is short range, powerful weapons like Blasters, Pulse Lasers and Auto-Cannon.
Now - Orbiting - is generally a PVP tactic. What you usually want to do for missions - is to kite the rats.
Inertia Stabilizers fitted in your low slots will help your ships agility.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.11.05 07:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vol Arm'OOO
snip..
Also I notice that sometimes I'll switch directions when I click orbit - for instance, I'll be at full speed and hit my mwd and suddenly find myself going the opposite way or i'll be at 20k and want to orbit closer at 17k and find myself going the opposite way. I assume that the direction change causes me to lose speed. Is there anyway to prevent this? Is it just a graphics issue?
It's not just graphics in my experience. Activating a propulsion mod while in orbit can cause your ship to reverse it's orbit direction.
I have no idea why it does this, and I'm not certain if it's something that happens every time. I have however lost ships to this which is why I no longer use the orbit command if pulsing ab/ mwd.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva
Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Ovella
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Posted - 2010.11.05 10:22:00 -
[10]
if you're into math and stuff |
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