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Faust Rammstein
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Posted - 2010.11.06 05:17:00 -
[1]
Well, I am really miffed about what just happened to me. I was in my Harbinger in high sec. I seen 2 bestowers attacking a retriever. I flipped his can to help him out. They took him down then got on me. I had a warp core stabilizer yet still couldn't warp. So what good was having that peace of crap equipped? So they were healing through 5 infiltrators and burning me at the same time. Someone please explain wtf just happened, besides me losong about 100mil to 2 bestowers. If that is the case, then why am I training for higher ships? I have 3 accounts, I'll just bulldoze people with newby ships. That was total bs.
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Lord Asteroidminerus
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Posted - 2010.11.06 05:28:00 -
[2]
I was actually in the Amarr belt and seen that. It was like you were being jumped by battleships. After seeing that I am signing off of eve for a bit. Why spend the time training when someone with a 6 hours old ship can do that? I'll just buy plex and buy my pilots. What a waste of time this training has been.Bestowers taking down battlecruisers. What a joke this is.
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Faust Rammstein
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Posted - 2010.11.06 05:37:00 -
[3]
Yea. I'm still like wtf after that. I feel silly now that I came over here, started 3 accounts and threw my money away. I so desperately wanted a new home from wow but the same BS happens here too I guess. Industrials taking down Battlecruisers,lol. What a joke. Canceling and piece out. 2 months down the drain. And the search continues.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.11.06 05:51:00 -
[4]
That gave me a much needed chuckle.
I recommend that we amend this as the second rule of EvE: "Be wary of Industrial ships."
On a more serious note...
For 2 industrials (Bestowers of all things), to kill a battlecruiser means that you must have been terribly, terribly failfit (this thought is supported by the fact that you stated that you had a Warp Core Stab fitted... which, BTW, "did not work" because you probably had more than one disruptor/scram on you). However, I won't know for sure unless I see a Killmail or know the name of the character killed.
Since a Bestower has 2 highs, 4 mids, and 4 lows... and being able to only fit 1 gun and no drones... I suspect that they used A LOT of E-war against you, neuted your capacitor, and ground you down (they must have been ****ing their pants in laughter).
As for training... well... repeat after me:
"Bigger is not always better."
There will be situations where a larger ship will simply be a large target for a smaller ship. There will also be situations where a small ship is a tasty snack for a larger one. It all depends on how you fit your ship and how you use it in a given situation.
In the case you described here... by all standards you should have easily killed both Industrials. Since you didn't it means that you not only failed to assess the situation tactically, but it also failed to utilize your ship properly.
I suggest going back and experimenting with cruisers in your next PvP forays.
_______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.06 06:12:00 -
[5]
This has the smell of a really bad trolling attempt about it, but for the benefit of new players reading this thread:
 Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Well, I am really miffed about what just happened to me.
The last thing you should ever do is get mad while playing eve. A lot of people (myself being on of them) know how to exploit that to their advantage.
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
I was in my Harbinger in high sec. I seen 2 bestowers attacking a retriever. I flipped his can to help him out. They took him down then got on me.
It's nice that you wanted to help him out, but flipping cans to get agro was a huge tactical mistake. Assuming this event actually happened, you gave the bestowers the ability to attack you on their terms rather than yours. Had they not been sure they could take you they wouldn't have engaged and you'd have just sat there. In this case they were fairly certain of a win, so they took you out.
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
I had a warp core stabilizer yet still couldn't warp. So what good was having that peace of crap equipped?
Firstly, don't put a warp core stabilizer on a combat ship. It gimps your targeting and takes a lowslot that could otherwise be used for tank or damage, causing it to basically become a self fulfilling prophecy that you'll need to warp out of the fight. And, as you found out the hard way, they only stabilize one point of warp strength per module, and a warp scrambler (2 points of destabilization), or 2 warp disruptors (1 point each for 2 total) is enough to overcome a single stabilizer (only 1 point of stabilization.
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
So they were healing through 5 infiltrators and burning me at the same time.
Assuming you mean you had 5 infiltrator drones on them, infiltraors are one of the lower dps medium drones. The bestowers were likely dual rep/dual cap booster fit (with a 5km3+ cargohold for all those boosters), so they would have no problem tanking 5 medium drones for quite some time. Also, what about your guns? Post your lossmail in here so we can see how your ship was fit.
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Someone please explain wtf just happened, besides me losong about 100mil to 2 bestowers.
Even a fully t2 fit harbinger is hardly anywhere close to 100m.
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
If that is the case, then why am I training for higher ships? I have 3 accounts, I'll just bulldoze people with newby ships. That was total bs.
Bigger isn't always better. PvP in this game is more about understanding how ships are fit, why they're fit that way, and what situations those fits are good in. From there the trick is to pick fights in situations in which your ship/fitting has the advantage.
What you should take away from this is:
- Don't risk what you're not willing to loose.
- If someone is willing to engage you in a fight, they probably think they have a good chance of winning. If it looks on the surface like you should win easily but they still engage, then it's likely a trap.
- Don't put warp core stabilizers on a combat ship
- - -
Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.11.06 06:15:00 -
[6]
Get a harbinger. Fit the highs with mining lasers, the lows with mining laser upgrades/co-processors and the mids with survey scanners and maybe a shield extender or two. Put mining drones on it.
Now, go out and try to PVP in it. You'll note that upon locking a target you will be utterly incapable of hurting him. This is because, despite the fact that you're in a battlecruiser, you're fit out for mining and thus utterly incapable of offensive action. **NOTE: I am not endorsing mining bestowers, as that's a bad idea. Just making a point.
I'm going to spare the details (mostly because I don't know them) just to say that, if you lost a Harbinger to two Bestowers, you had one of the worst fits imaginable. Under no circumstances should a Harbinger, EVER, for ANY REASON, lose to two industrials.
Post up the fit you were using and we will explain why it's bad and suggest something better.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.11.06 07:50:00 -
[7]
1/10
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.06 09:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 06/11/2010 09:59:48
Don't mock the awesomeness of industrials 
The rapier was just pointing 
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.06 10:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Don't mock the awesomeness of industrials
The rapier was just pointing
Epic old news kill is epic.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.06 10:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Don't mock the awesomeness of industrials
The rapier was just pointing
Epic old news kill is epic.
Ours was better, no cheap cloaks 
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.11.06 12:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 06/11/2010 09:59:48
Don't mock the awesomeness of industrials
The rapier was just pointing
OH MY EYES THE FITTING! 
___________
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Faust Rammstein
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:10:00 -
[12]
this most def. was posted on an alt. Anyway, the fit, which wasn't smuthered in awsomesauce, was for the benefit of easy mission running, nothing else. Like I said, I was just trying to help someone out.
Harbinger
4 med. pulse laser II
small tractor beam
improved cloaking device II
2 cap recharger II
4 Heat Sink I's
civ shield booster
5 Infiltrators
Not the exact build and I'm missing a couple things, it was a mission runner for a Hauler so I never memorized it after the build.
Other things I didn't mention was yes, they did drain my cap, which as you can figure, rendered me useless.I have never pvp'ed just low lvl missions so I had no idea wtf was happening. I shouldn't have ranted last night, I know better than to get ****ed, but it blindsided me. I warp into a belt, see a retriever being can flipped, which having 3 miners I know how effed up it is, so went to help the guy out.I thought why not, I'm beating around bored in my BC, time for payback for all those times I had to leave my cans and the belt because some idiot couldn't leave me alone. I have a lot to learn about fits, ships, and pvp strat. Just atm I am indy running missions in boredom, wasn't planning on something like that to kick off in high sec. Well, back to the drawing board.
And no, it wasn't 100mill. I was thinking of a build I have going on for another toon. My mistake. Never post angry and drunk, the morning after read is embarrassing. 
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Aiko Zan
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.06 14:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Harbinger
4 med. pulse laser II
small tractor beam
improved cloaking device II
civ shield booster
Never post angry and drunk, the morning after read is embarrassing.
No resists or any tank for that matter! Civ booster does not count. only using 4 out of 7 gun high points. Cloak for mission running? TBH the morning after post seems more embarrassing. Get help with your fittings and industrial ships should not be as big of a problem.  |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.06 15:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Never post angry and drunk, the morning after read is embarrassing.
Just like that fit :rimshot:
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.06 15:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Not the exact build and I'm missing a couple things, it was a mission runner for a Hauler so I never memorized it after the build.
You can see the exact fit in the lossmail, it's in your character sheet under combat record.
- - -
Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Juggalo Justinian
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Posted - 2010.11.06 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Well, I am really miffed about what just happened to me. I was in my Harbinger in high sec. I seen 2 bestowers attacking a retriever. I flipped his can to help him out. They took him down then got on me. I had a warp core stabilizer yet still couldn't warp. So what good was having that peace of crap equipped? So they were healing through 5 infiltrators and burning me at the same time. Someone please explain wtf just happened, besides me losong about 100mil to 2 bestowers. If that is the case, then why am I training for higher ships? I have 3 accounts, I'll just bulldoze people with newby ships. That was total bs.
Just tried looking the OP up on the killboards... no such toon of that name... Sooo killmail... or it didnt happen
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Oblivious Vox
Caldari
Super-Best-Friends
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Posted - 2010.11.06 15:53:00 -
[17]
i killed u mate, we had 2 scrams on u ;), no hard feelings a kills a kill
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11614562
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Lisa: Alright Nelson, what kind of journalism skills do you have?
Nelson: I dunno, making nerds cry?
Lisa: Perfect! You're our tv critic.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- |
Falaricae
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Posted - 2010.11.06 16:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
i killed u mate, we had 2 scrams on u ;), no hard feelings a kills a kill
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11614562
  
That fit was just a lossmail waiting to happen. I don't think there is a ship in EVE that couldn't kill that horrible abomination, if it was just flown by a remotely skilled player.
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Oblivious Vox
Caldari
Super-Best-Friends
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Posted - 2010.11.06 16:36:00 -
[19]
he could of killed me but he didnt switch ammo i guess, i was haif hull and burned away and he was hitting me for 12.. :P and i had 5 drones on me
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Lisa: Alright Nelson, what kind of journalism skills do you have?
Nelson: I dunno, making nerds cry?
Lisa: Perfect! You're our tv critic.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- |
Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.11.06 18:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Culmen on 06/11/2010 18:45:32
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
he could of killed me but he didnt switch ammo i guess, i was haif hull and burned away and he was hitting me for 12.. :P and i had 5 drones on me
But he didn't.
Good kill none the less, I'll be alot more careful agressing industrials in high sec
As for damionity,you've violated several cardinal rules of eve fitting with that fit.
First, never mix short and long range guns, EVER.
Just don't.
That heavy pulse laser was a waste of a highslot for the ranges you'd need for the beam lasers.
Second, double tanking is baaaad.
Exception are bait ships, which I'm guessing you weren't.
Also those double tanked ships tend to be passive.
Two active tanks would just be a waste, you'd be better off concentrating on one.
preferably an armor tank since it's the harb we're talking about.
Also each of the individual tanks was fail, with no resistance mods.
You had a free low slot, even if you were completely out of CPU you could have fit some adaptive resistance plating.
Third, theres a place for mining lasers, on a fit with actual guns is not it.
Whats that mining laser going to be doing? mining veldspar while you shoot?
You'd make more isk changing that to another gun and shooting the rats faster.
Especially since you didn't fit mining laser upgrades and the harb doesn't have a mining bonus.
Also laser bonuses and heat sinks DO NOT IN ANY WAY effect Mining Lasers
Forth, when going into PVP, make sure somebody on your side has a warp disruptor.
Any fight you warp away from in your ship is a fight you won.
No warp disruptor means the opponent always wins.
Fifth, the cargo scanner is USELESS for missions.
I can't think of a single situation where you'd need it.
Sixth, warp core stabs and shooting guns don't mix.
They nerf your lock time.
Combined with your cloak, im surprised you locked at all.
I could go on and one...
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Levhitor
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Posted - 2010.11.06 18:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Culmen
.
Good kill none the less, I'll be alot more careful agressing industrials in high sec
Fear the industrials!!!
And thanx =D
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.06 19:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 06/11/2010 18:45:32
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
he could of killed me but he didnt switch ammo i guess, i was haif hull and burned away and he was hitting me for 12.. :P and i had 5 drones on me
But he didn't.
Good kill none the less, I'll be alot more careful agressing industrials in high sec
As for damionity,you've violated several cardinal rules of eve fitting with that fit.
First, never mix short and long range guns, EVER.
Just don't.
That heavy pulse laser was a waste of a highslot for the ranges you'd need for the beam lasers.
Second, double tanking is baaaad.
Exception are bait ships, which I'm guessing you weren't.
Also those double tanked ships tend to be passive.
Two active tanks would just be a waste, you'd be better off concentrating on one.
preferably an armor tank since it's the harb we're talking about.
Also each of the individual tanks was fail, with no resistance mods.
You had a free low slot, even if you were completely out of CPU you could have fit some adaptive resistance plating.
Third, theres a place for mining lasers, on a fit with actual guns is not it.
Whats that mining laser going to be doing? mining veldspar while you shoot?
You'd make more isk changing that to another gun and shooting the rats faster.
Especially since you didn't fit mining laser upgrades and the harb doesn't have a mining bonus.
Also laser bonuses and heat sinks DO NOT IN ANY WAY effect Mining Lasers
Forth, when going into PVP, make sure somebody on your side has a warp disruptor.
Any fight you warp away from in your ship is a fight you won.
No warp disruptor means the opponent always wins.
Fifth, the cargo scanner is USELESS for missions.
I can't think of a single situation where you'd need it.
Sixth, warp core stabs and shooting guns don't mix.
They nerf your lock time.
Combined with your cloak, im surprised you locked at all.
I could go on and one...
The price of the OP's loss has been reimbursed through knowledge.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.11.06 19:46:00 -
[23]
Ships & Modules is your friend.
If you can't find a ship there that matches yours - ask. Just be sure to specify whether or not you want a cheap fit or an _ber Fit as they are vastly different in price.
If you don't understand why something is included in a fit - take a look at it's show info - and if you still can't figure it out - ask. Modules in a fit are often interrelated, so that you might not fit just one module but rather fit combination's of modules that complement each other.
Here is the Player Guide on Tanking.
Here is an Old Guide on Tanking. I'm not sure how out of date some of this may be as it is fairly old - but there's a good explanation of the concepts.
Also - if you are running missions ... where you can get away with all kinds of things ... and which require entirely different fits than PVP - don't voluntarily engage in PVP. Just don't do it. As we have seen ... two guys in Bestowers who know what they are doing and are fit for PVP - can kill someone in a poorly fit ship - who obviously didn't know what he was doing. When you do decide to engage in PVP - start out in cheap ships. You will die - a lot. Don't do this with expensive implants either. Either create another character - or get a jump clone - as if you PVP - you will die - and those implants will be gone. There are Trained Skills - and then there is Experience. You can buy skills. You can buy characters. You can't buy experience - except by dying a lot.
Lastly ... Don't Drink and Fly Internet Space Ships ...
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar
Instapop Industries
death from above..
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Posted - 2010.11.06 20:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
i killed u mate, we had 2 scrams on u ;), no hard feelings a kills a kill
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11614562
I want to thank you and your friends for destroying the Harbinger with the most AWESOME FAIL fit I've ever seen.
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Faust Rammstein
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Posted - 2010.11.07 00:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
i killed u mate, we had 2 scrams on u ;), no hard feelings a kills a kill
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11614562
Not at all, no hard feelings. Like I said I don't pvp, not interested at all, I'm into Indy, but it was like watching golf cart's take out a semi. Was weird is all. Well, lesson learned. I'll do my missions and mind my own business. I could care less about tweaking fits for max dps or w/e. It's not my thing.
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Oblivious Vox
Caldari
Super-Best-Friends
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Posted - 2010.11.07 00:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon
I want to thank you and your friends for destroying the Harbinger with the most AWESOME FAIL fit I've ever seen.
np :D
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Lisa: Alright Nelson, what kind of journalism skills do you have?
Nelson: I dunno, making nerds cry?
Lisa: Perfect! You're our tv critic.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.07 00:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 06/11/2010 09:59:48
Don't mock the awesomeness of industrials
The rapier was just pointing
OH MY EYES THE FITTING!
That's how our little lolfleet was able to take down that Harby and one of his Drake friends , the 2nd drake warped out the second we arrived
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar
Instapop Industries
death from above..
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Posted - 2010.11.07 00:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Originally by: Oblivious Vox
i killed u mate, we had 2 scrams on u ;), no hard feelings a kills a kill
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11614562
Not at all, no hard feelings. Like I said I don't pvp, not interested at all, I'm into Indy, but it was like watching golf cart's take out a semi. Was weird is all. Well, lesson learned. I'll do my missions and mind my own business. I could care less about tweaking fits for max dps or w/e. It's not my thing.
This is all fine. But look at your ship. Mission fit a ship for missioning, Mine fit a ship for mining. Don't mix them, you'll just suck at both.
I don't know what your skills are, but for mining, use either a mining cruiser or a mining barge/exhumer. If you want good suggestions, ask about it in the Ships and Modules forum.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.11.07 00:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Faust Rammstein
Like I said I don't pvp, not interested at all, I'm into Indy, but it was like watching golf cart's take out a semi. Was weird is all. Well, lesson learned. I'll do my missions and mind my own business. I could care less about tweaking fits for max dps or w/e. It's not my thing.
To each this own... however I think you will find that being willfully ignorant of a major part of the game will not help you in the long run. To know how a proper PvP ship is [generally] fit and the tactics that PvPers use can help you avoid ganks, get out of tense situations, or even fight when you essentially have no alternative.
The same holds true in reverse: even the best PvPer has to have a basic understanding of industry and the market to buy cheap ships and modules for pew pew and sell expensive loot.
_______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Faust Rammstein
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Posted - 2010.11.07 03:54:00 -
[30]
Actually it is a sandbox, there isn't a major. sandbox means you can do anything depending on not one thing. The flames continue to burn my face. Anyway, I don't have to answer to anyone in this box, but the mining lasers were for the rare spotting of odd ore when missioning, some Jaspet is nice here and there. I have 3 retrievers so don't think the Harbinger was my miner for god sake. And 3-4 med pulse lasers are plenty for lvl 1, yes, I said level 1 missions.
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