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Large Artillery ( 1400mm ) the next to be nerfed?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Pythion	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:13:38 I draw your attention to Large Artillery guns. Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. A gang of 10 ships carrying these guns provides Alpha equal to a fleet of hacs 3 - 5x their size. Add some recons ( Web / Warp Disruptor bonuses ) and the fleet can keep range. Any fleet jumping the gate will not survive the alpha. Using an Abaddon as a platform ( good tank, no bonuses to 1400mm guns ) shows how insane this weapon really is. Nearly 10k Alpha per Abaddon ( more with a faction fitted Mach or a Tempest ) will 1 shot nearly anything. Coupled with ok DPS and excellent range, this is the new Flavor of the Month (year?). Comparision of Laser Abaddon vs 1400mm Abaddon
Jack bubu Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:11:00 - [2] That you are using shortrange t2 ammo for longrange guns says it all really /thread
Pythion	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Jack bubu That you are using shortrange t2 ammo for longrange guns says it all really /thread just showing the max alpha, and with the falloff ( 66km ) that range is not very short.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:15:00 - [4] You're comparing 1400mm's to PULSE lasers. Short range high dps low alpha guns. Try with Tachyons. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Jack bubu Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Pythion Originally by: Jack bubu That you are using shortrange t2 ammo for longrange guns says it all really /thread just showing the max alpha, and with the falloff ( 66km ) that range is not very short. The point is that T2 shortrange ammo for longrange guns is **** and noone uses them, furthermore are you comparing pulse lasers to 1400 artys.. atleast compare them to tachyons when complaining about alpha strike.

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:17:00 - [6] Moved from General Discussion to Ships & Modules. Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Koronakesh Amarr Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:17:00 - [7] Keep your bad EFT-warrioring off the forum, christ.
Pythion	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:27:00 - [8] Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:29:44 Originally by: Jack bubu atleast compare them to tachyons when complaining about alpha strike. Fair enough, i changed the laser abaddon to tach's. Double the DPS but half the Alpha compared with 1400mm's, also makes the abaddon a mother to fit and will probably have to be a shield abaddon if you want the max Alpha/DPS potential using Tach's.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Pythion I draw your attention to Large Artillery guns. Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. A gang of 10 ships carrying these guns provides Alpha equal to a fleet of hacs 3 - 5x their size. Add some recons ( Web / Warp Disruptor bonuses ) and the fleet can keep range. Any fleet jumping the gate will not survive the alpha. Translation: someone beat us with different tactics, nerf it! Seriously, what did you expect? Large artillery is MADE for high alpha and of course battleships are gonna have higher alpha than HACS in the first place. It's not by far unbeatable.
Lady Parity Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Pythion shield abaddon
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:48:00 - [11] Please bring 10 Tempests to 0,0 or anywhere for that matte please. You need to learn a little more about this game and get out of Empire/Eft land before you make ths assumptions. Firstly, high alpha decreases in importance with respect to dps as the size of your fleet goes up. Secondly, Battleships have serious limits - namely mobility. Thirdly, As a dedicated arti lover since the begining of the game, its potential is in picking off smaller targets, not hitting its own class - this means its best used in the support. anyway, please continue with your alt. . . -----------
Intigo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:48:00 - [12] Holy crap, Pythion. You should probably never post again. You are completely and utterly clueless. ___________________
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Pythion Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:27:42 Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:13:38 I draw your attention to Large Artillery guns. Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. A gang of 10 ships carrying these guns provides Alpha equal to a fleet of hacs 3 - 5x their size. Add some recons ( Web / Warp Disruptor bonuses ) and the fleet can keep range. Any fleet jumping the gate will not survive the alpha. Using an Abaddon as a platform ( good tank, no bonuses to 1400mm guns ) shows how insane this weapon really is. Nearly 10k Alpha per Abaddon ( more with a faction fitted Mach or a Tempest ) will 1 shot nearly anything. Coupled with ok DPS and excellent range, this is the new Flavor of the Month (year?). Comparision of Laser Abaddon vs 1400mm Abaddon http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1612/artyabaddon1.jpg http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/428/71078924.jpg Image changed to link. Navigator "Working as intended" would seem to be the appropriate response here. On a side note: Do passive-aggressive nerf whines need nerfing? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Bluejacket CT Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.11.07 16:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Bluejacket CT on 07/11/2010 17:00:58 Clearly there are bigger problems to tackle, check these two ships as a comparison! [Imicus, PvP] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Warp Scrambler II 1MN Afterburner II Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 [Velator, YEAH ***] Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Warp Scrambler II Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Hobgoblin II x2 The battle imicus has almost 30% more damage, and over 300 percent more tank than the battle velator. CONCLUSION: The battle Imicus is OP and needs nerfing.** ~
Pythion	Posted - 2010.11.07 17:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Atius Tirawa Secondly, Battleships have serious limits - namely mobility. The real "issue" at hand is Machs, which all major alliances im sure are gonna throw isk / time at asap. 2k ms / 12k alpha ? That really does seem balanced to me...
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.11.07 17:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Pythion Originally by: Atius Tirawa Secondly, Battleships have serious limits - namely mobility. The real "issue" at hand is Machs, which all major alliances im sure are gonna throw isk / time at asap. 2k ms / 12k alpha ? That really does seem balanced to me... Quick, let's EFT up some officer-fit Faction BS to prove something or other is OP! Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ur235 TAKEN.	Posted - 2010.11.07 17:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Ur235 on 07/11/2010 17:35:08 just increase the refire rate by about 2-3 or more seconds and there balanced again
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.11.07 18:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Ur235 Edited by: Ur235 on 07/11/2010 17:35:08 just increase the refire rate by about 2-3 or more seconds and there balanced again Let me get this straight: your answer to the "problem" of too high alpha is to reduce RoF? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.11.07 18:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Pythion Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:27:42 Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:13:38 I draw your attention to Large Artillery guns. Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. A gang of 10 ships carrying these guns provides Alpha equal to a fleet of hacs 3 - 5x their size. Add some recons ( Web / Warp Disruptor bonuses ) and the fleet can keep range. Any fleet jumping the gate will not survive the alpha. Using an Abaddon as a platform ( good tank, no bonuses to 1400mm guns ) shows how insane this weapon really is. Nearly 10k Alpha per Abaddon ( more with a faction fitted Mach or a Tempest ) will 1 shot nearly anything. Coupled with ok DPS and excellent range, this is the new Flavor of the Month (year?). Comparision of Laser Abaddon vs 1400mm Abaddon http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1612/artyabaddon1.jpg http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/428/71078924.jpg Image changed to link. Navigator check tracking check DPS k thnx bye
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.07 18:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Pythion Coupled with ok DPS and excellent range, this is the new Flavor of the Month (year?). Somehow, I just don't think that a battleship having the DPS of a cruiser counts as "ok"à ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Enduros Desard's Nation Cha0s Theory	Posted - 2010.11.07 18:35:00 - [21] Artillery are nice... back in the day before warp to 0 and HP buff a tempest could strafe a gate and take out 2-3 cruisers before they managed to jump... You know what the "real" problem is? It's the same with SCs, fleet combat, drake gangs.... ships with big guns... Someone mentioned this in some thread and they were absolutely right. It's the general combat where it's 100 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1... It's also the reason why active tanking is usually a bad idea. Also the reason why everyone is fitting plates on everything... well ok neuts are a good reason too.. and cap charges being huge might be another reason. Anyway, the whole focus fire thing is what's making blobbing so popular. What about some sort of bonus to sig radius or something when you have too many people locked on you? Or shooting at you? Too many scanners or a target or too many incoming ordinance make you look smaller in all the flack and interference. Somekind of diminishing returns perhaps... like having that 5th extra damage mod is never worth it. I'm not saying any numbers here, but a way to balance out the incoming damage. Say if over 10 BS start locking or shooting at another BS the the sig of that target drops so low that for the 11th BS it's not worth their time. Now this would mean small ships can still lock or shoot reasonably, but it would still impair the whole blob vs 1 thing. This way a fleet would need fire teams. Hell, some random gatecamp will need as much coordination. The whole thing with the HP buff was to make fights be more tactical and last longer... well look where that got us. And I'm sure someone else has got a better idea. But bottom line is that arti is not broken, even moms aren't that broken... it's the way they are used. - This one time, at gate camp, I shot a shuttle...
Sjugar	Posted - 2010.11.07 18:40:00 - [22] Having been in quite a few large lagfests in 0.0, the artybaddon is certainly a big bad ship. In those situation no matter what I use I'm happy to get one shot, cycle time at the point for modules becomes irrelevant. So what you want is highest alpha.
Helmh0ltz	Posted - 2010.11.07 19:42:00 - [23] Never. Post. Again. That is all. ====== Your signature is freakishly huge for this forum. Please resize according to the forum rules, thanks. Shadow.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.07 19:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Lady Parity Originally by: Pythion shield abaddon start up a lol sports arena team with the OP and both of you please head back to wow.
Headerman	Posted - 2010.11.07 20:07:00 - [25] Plz nerd thrashers already, they are way OP: [Thrasher, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II ECCM - Gravimetric II Medium Capacitor Battery II 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L [empty high slot] Small Trimark Armor Pump II Small Trimark Armor Pump II Small Trimark Armor Pump II Vs [Catalyst, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Disruptor II 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 7405 alpha Vs 401 just isn't on.
Enduros Desard's Nation Cha0s Theory	Posted - 2010.11.07 20:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Headerman Plz nerd thrashers already, they are way OP: [Thrasher, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II ECCM - Gravimetric II Medium Capacitor Battery II 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L [empty high slot] Small Trimark Armor Pump II Small Trimark Armor Pump II Small Trimark Armor Pump II Faction ammo and swap the MFS for a gyro and it's OVER 9000! - This one time, at gate camp, I shot a shuttle...
Solid Star	Posted - 2010.11.07 20:48:00 - [27] Edited by: Solid Star on 07/11/2010 20:52:53 Originally by: Pythion Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. If Tempest is all the rage, then what is the Mega with more kills in the past 30 days? And how about Amarr who have TWO BS which have similar numbers to the Tempest? And if we are including all ships, then the Drake has more kills (320k) then all of the below BS combined. (compliments of eve-kill) Ship - Kills Megathron - 68,242 Tempest - 56,541 Apocalypse - 55,268 Abaddon - 46,509 Until the recent arty boost, the Tempest was a sub par BS to all the other ones in every aspect. Now it has a unique advantage when it comes to the careful use of Alpha.
mmmPork	Posted - 2010.11.07 21:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Pythion Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:27:42 Edited by: Pythion on 07/11/2010 16:13:38 I draw your attention to Large Artillery guns. Currently all the rage in 0.0 roaming fleets, they provide insane, insta-popping power. A gang of 10 ships carrying these guns provides Alpha equal to a fleet of hacs 3 - 5x their size. Add some recons ( Web / Warp Disruptor bonuses ) and the fleet can keep range. Any fleet jumping the gate will not survive the alpha. Using an Abaddon as a platform ( good tank, no bonuses to 1400mm guns ) shows how insane this weapon really is. Nearly 10k Alpha per Abaddon ( more with a faction fitted Mach or a Tempest ) will 1 shot nearly anything. Coupled with ok DPS and excellent range, this is the new Flavor of the Month (year?). Comparision of Laser Abaddon vs 1400mm Abaddon http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1612/artyabaddon1.jpg http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/428/71078924.jpg Image changed to link. Navigator Get off of my forums, now.
William Cooly Sol Enterprises	Posted - 2010.11.07 22:12:00 - [29] So, who alpha'd you? Originally by: Templar Dane Tanking is not a role.
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce	Posted - 2010.11.07 22:21:00 - [30] Edited by: Grimpak on 07/11/2010 22:23:36 Originally by: Ur235 Edited by: Ur235 on 07/11/2010 17:35:08 just increase the refire rate by about 2-3 or more seconds and there balanced again sure, let's increase the base RoF of 1400's, which is like FORTY SECONDS already. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.

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