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How much isk do you keep as liquid?

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Stuart Shingleton	Posted - 2010.11.11 00:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Stuart Shingleton on 11/11/2010 00:40:38 Long time Listener first time caller here. a few questions for station traders particully, anyone with an opinion is muchly appreciated. i have 3 accounts, paid for with RL money (atm), and 2 computers, a laptop & PC, so 2 screens. Toon 1 Passive income: 1) orca pilot have been using this as a freighter(paranoid V in full effect), perfect production skills, medium Science skills & basic market skills. production efficiency 5 & plenty of researched BPO's with decent margins to make & sell (i spreadsheet everything) low ball buy orders & resell for items with high volume. low ball mineral orders to not for resell, but to use in production. plan on getting him a freighter asap to increase the amount of volume i can produce & transport in 1 go plan on getting him into PI as well, more products to sell & use :) salvages missions for toon 2 mainly produce T1 items, science skills arent good enough for T2 yet has a high sec pos toon 2 Active income: Dominix mission runner, level 4's (i use the nerd to salvage everything) Low Sec PVP a few times a week in his no implant Jump clone for fun. (i die alot but its fun so who cares) The money(loot, bounties & LP) i make on him gets swept to my production/science/market nerd to make a passive income. Toon 3/account 3 plan on using this toon/account to make & sell charactors (freighter toons, learning toons & hulk toons etc etc) hopefully with enough profit to cover plex for the next one. However the problem is & i want to ask the players is atm i have 1.1 bil isk liquid, 200 mil in buy/sell orders across the 3 accounts so total of around 1.3 bil isk, & about ~2-3 bil in assets have collected over the years. how much isk do you guys sink into buy orders? with 1.1 bil ISk liquid how much of it would u keep as liquid? should i place more buy orders (get better trade skills, i can place 37 orders & rarely need that many, mainly im selling my own products & a few items with low buy, high sell decent volume) i have read alot on players not producing anything & just placing buy orders, but i like the idea of having product lines & its fairly simple process, set & forget haul to trade hub every few days. im a working solo father, so i dont have time during the day to constantly manage orders. I am not based in Jita im based in minnie space. Cheers!
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.11.11 01:07:00 - [2] Ideally, as little liquid ISK as possible. Also, stop calling characters toons. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Stuart Shingleton	Posted - 2010.11.11 01:19:00 - [3] Edited by: Stuart Shingleton on 11/11/2010 01:19:35 Originally by: Akita T Ideally, as little liquid ISK as possible. Also, stop calling characters toons. Would mind explaining why? Fixed the toons thing
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:01:00 - [4] The question of how much liquid isk to keep is kind of difficult to answer. On one hand, you want to have a lot, say a few billion (for some of our resident md, a few billion is chump change). The reason being is that when opportunities arise, it's nice to have some liquid isk available to take advantage of those opportunities. On the other hand, having a few billion sitting in your wallet, waiting for the next opportunity is kind of a bad investment. I would say invest those few billion into something that you could easily liquidate quickly (high end mineral is the first thing that came to mind). It really depends on your style of gameplay. Personally, I keep a few billion in my wallet available. Sometimes I would invest the bulk of that into moon material or production of t2 ships. Originally by: Brock Nelson OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
Vorekk Gallente LowBall Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:11:00 - [5] I didn't read the OP or any replies. But... ISK in the wallet is ISK that isn't working for you. --- Join Lowball Heavy Industries. Small, focused fleets - lots of high intensity action, the EVE way.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Akita T on 11/11/2010 02:25:34 Originally by: Stuart Shingleton Originally by: Akita T Ideally, as little liquid ISK as possible. Would mind explaining why? Liquid ISK is uninvested ISK, uninvested ISK gains you nothing. So you want to have as little of it as possible, and as much as possible invested into something that does earn you more ISK. P.S. Of course, how much "as little as possible" actually is changes from person to person. For some (people paying with RL cash, no immediate ISK needs for PvP alts, no plans for alternative business opportunities, no margin trading skill), as little as possible could mean almost zero. For others (especially people with several levels in margin trading), you want to keep enough so the chance of your already-placed buy orders bouncing is as small as you're comfortable with, with the added side-effect of being able to seize some opportunities in case they materialize. For very few, "as little as possible" can mean dozens of billions of ISK, because they are already using the rest to the full of its potential, and that impressive (for others) sum represents a negligible percentage of their total networth, the percentage they just can't find anything worth the effort of investing into right now. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Cid Mutation	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 11/11/2010 02:25:34 Originally by: Stuart Shingleton Originally by: Akita T Ideally, as little liquid ISK as possible. Would mind explaining why? Liquid ISK is uninvested ISK, uninvested ISK gains you nothing. So you want to have as little of it as possible, and as much as possible invested into something that does earn you more ISK. P.S. Of course, how much "as little as possible" actually is changes from person to person. For some (people paying with RL cash, no immediate ISK needs for PvP alts, no plans for alternative business opportunities, no margin trading skill), as little as possible could mean almost zero. For others (especially people with several levels in margin trading), you want to keep enough so the chance of your already-placed buy orders bouncing is as small as you're comfortable with, with the added side-effect of being able to seize some opportunities in case they materialize. For very few, "as little as possible" can mean dozens of billions of ISK, because they are already using the rest to the full of its potential, and that impressive (for others) sum represents a negligible percentage of their total networth, the percentage they just can't find anything worth the effort of investing into right now. You see for me the amount I'm keeping in ISK is around 600M, I usally invest somewhere around 300M in a market opportunaty, so this gives me the room I'm ok with if it crash I won't loose much and every little bit will become big later on. Lately I've been logging in around once a week so I take item I know will bring good benifite but on longer period with little competition. And keep in mind that playing the market is not a linear template where you need this and that, Yes you have some skills that will help you but, it's about what you can manage. Everything is about management. See what you can manage with the time you have and from there optimize your market strategy and what opportunity you can capitalize. And remember market graph is your friend!
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:11:00 - [8] Edited by: mechtech on 11/11/2010 03:11:26 You should have enough isk on hand to handle opportunity as it arises. Depending on how aggressive you pursue flavor of the month investments should determine the proportion of your NAV that should be liquid. Personally I keep 33% in hard assets (collectables), 33% in PLEX, and 33% in liquid isk. If opportunity comes up, like the recent PLEX run-up, I basically liquidate cash fund. Every couple of months I recalculate NAV and redistribute if needed, and long term investments are basically written out of the "33/33/33" calculation until they cash back in. Side businesses (cap ship production or what have you) have their own funds that are added to as needed. Don't set up buy orders just because you can. You should have at least a loose business plan to stick to, but do try to expand as far as you can before moving on. Due to the nature of Eve many markets are regional, so throwing more alts at a business as a way to invest more isk is usually a decent idea...
nickator	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:27:00 - [9] I keep it all in cash, all 35b of it. I play poker for isk so it makes sense.
Havegooda Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.11.11 06:22:00 - [10] Personally I have most of my liquid ISK on a market alt. That way I don't spend a lot of money on stuff I don't need, or can find cheaper.
Nathan Jameson	Posted - 2010.11.11 07:55:00 - [11] I'm not a big station trader player yet, and my numbers will reflect that. However... I keep about 2 bil in sell orders that I "slow-boat" (I can make money faster and in more interesting ways in my wormhole than .01 isking). I have them spread across 40 or so different types of items, rather than only in a few. I have somewhere between 300-500 isk on buy orders and at least 200 in cash for when they fill. Any less than that, and I'm losing money on broker fees when buy orders try to pull from an empty wallet. Any more, and...well, it's been said. If I need a lot of money in a short amount of time, I just baby my sell orders for a few hours, and I can turn most of them into cash in less than 24 hours. The fact I'm spread out over item types, rather than heavily invested in one or two, means my cash is more liquid and mobile. Of course, your strategy will be different depending on what you do, how much time you spend online each day, how and what you invest in, etc. But I hope my thoughts help prompt some of your own.
Razz XXX Minmatar Vashta Nerada Corp	Posted - 2010.11.11 08:46:00 - [12] I try to keep Liquid Isk around 75B-100B adding about 2B week sometimes it peeks at 4B week on patch week, as it stands I have about 350B in asset as per NAV report in EMMA but I know that's way too low. I would take month just figure out real asset total. If heads over 100B I tend go on spending spree's. I guess I'm running out of things to spend it on. I don't mission, mine, pvp, scam, steal, industry, research much. Find your niche and control it.
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.11.11 16:25:00 - [13] Depends on how you like to develop isk too. I'm kind of lazy, and tend to leave a lot of it liquid until I see an opportunity to make a lot of isk for low effort. This approach worked very very well with tyrannis :P
Omega MythOS Amarr Dashavatara Clownz'R'Us	Posted - 2010.11.11 18:15:00 - [14] The real answer here is: how ever much it is you're comfortable with. IMHO, anything beyond the capability to flip a cheap supercarrier is wasteful capital gathering dust. Personally, trade profits used to stockpile frequently used assets acquired based on one-year lows means I'm not touching my bottom line. Also, I spread all liquid isk/assets evenly amongst accounts so that in case one account gets shutout for whatever reason, I'm not up ****'s creek. Finally, for no justifiable reason whatsoever, I keep a stockpile of "guaranteeables" that can be liquidated in very short order (OPE's,) as a bit of an under-the-mattress-type fund.
enterprisePSI Gallente Unimatrix 0.1	Posted - 2010.11.11 19:06:00 - [15] I keep around 8 bil liquid. Some people like to swim in their isk Tears, or the titan dies!
Aglarond	Posted - 2010.11.11 20:36:00 - [16] Gauging from your post, your primary income seems to be missioner with a passive production/trade income which really is not a bad way to get going. Just keep enough to replace your mission ship completely and invest the rest. Your going to find before too long though that your orca isnt going to cut it when you start into production. You will eventually have to save to advance your business and get yourself a freighter so prepare for that. I have 5 freighters running about most of the day and I lose at least 1 a year to suicide attacks. I know that suicide attacks are much less on orca's but just the same, be prepared for that because it's very very easy to do. It's always a bitter moment when something gets nerfed. Not because CCP decided something genuinely needed an adjustment, but because somewhere some whiner is gunna think they got their way.
Stuart Shingleton	Posted - 2010.11.11 22:18:00 - [17] Edited by: Stuart Shingleton on 11/11/2010 22:18:45 Originally by: Aglarond Gauging from your post, your primary income seems to be missioner with a passive production/trade income which really is not a bad way to get going. Just keep enough to replace your mission ship completely and invest the rest. Your going to find before too long though that your orca isnt going to cut it when you start into production. You will eventually have to save to advance your business and get yourself a freighter so prepare for that. I have 5 freighters running about most of the day and I lose at least 1 a year to suicide attacks. I know that suicide attacks are much less on orca's but just the same, be prepared for that because it's very very easy to do. Thanks everyone for the advice, My mission runner does maybe 1 or 2 missions a night, so around 10mil income a day from that. the bulk of my money recently has come from production & station trading. so last night i sunk alot more into minerals to build up a nice stockpile for production. And instead of make the 3rd account for sale, i will use him to be a jita station trader & freighter Character, ferrying goods to all the major trade hubs whilst i alt tab missions. some realy good advice here using more than 1 character for trade. so it will go like this now: Active income: Mission runner, sweeps all money to science, production Character or new jita character. Passive 1 buy orders for minerals & some local decent margin products. (mass production 5 finished over night!) once i have a freighter load of goods to sell i get the freighter character to pick em up & take it to Jita where the market is more active & my chances of sales are higher (more turnover) Passive 2 .01 game in Jita, with freighter runs between the 2 trade hubs in the background of missioning. keeping around 800m liquid for the eventual freighter purchase. thanks very much.
Aphrodite Skripalle Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2010.11.12 14:41:00 - [18] uh, i am really surprised how much isk you have ingame. This is more then some people have cash in real life. Looks like for me you have lots of real life money, too. I personally stop grinding isk if i have more then enough to pay my gametimecode. The rest i just spend on making something fun ingame or helping some noobs out to find a good start. 100 bn isk.. thats about 100 / .35 * 15$ so something about 4 to 5k real money. I wish i had this money in my real life.
Tasko Pal Aliastra	Posted - 2010.11.12 21:08:00 - [19] At margin trading 5, I have about 40% of my cash tied up in market escrow. Most of the orders move slowly, so I consider myself a bit high currently on cash to escrow. I have a considerable amount of assets spread out over stations (much of it either from years back when I still was learning the ropes or from recent changes in my market strategy).
Bodega Cat	Posted - 2010.11.13 18:23:00 - [20] the amount should change based on your confidence levels. I know its hard to imagine when you read this board, but lots of traders do dumb things and lose money too! Most investments are not a guaranteed plus sign. Keep more when things are looking volatile and not everythings going according to plan. Keep less when you've got sure things in play, and things are going well.
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.11.13 23:07:00 - [21] At your levels of income you should be reinvesting everything. The easiest would be a T2 consumable. There are a lot of sheep in this thread that will tell you to always invest all of your isk. However, they're incorrectly applying a strategy from RL, where government banks keep currencies lightly inflating. In EVE, rapid deflation can occur. Given Dr. Eyeojnjfdnkdjfn's rumblings about there being too much isk in EVE, I wouldn't be surprised if anom bounties got a severe beating in the next patch or two. In that case, isk might be a good investment. But at your level of income, just keep enough on hand to replace a few ships.
Nikolai Kondratiev Sphere Design Inc.	Posted - 2010.11.14 02:20:00 - [22] The only liquid thing I keep around is beer _ WTS C.C.P BPO
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.11.14 09:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Akita T Ideally, as little liquid ISK as possible. /signed although I usually turn most of my liquid isk into hanger ornaments rather than "investing" it
Loney CyberDyne R-D	Posted - 2010.11.18 17:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Razz XXX I guess I'm running out of things to spend it on. Tell me about it... Even with a 2billion ISK a month GTC bill, and 2billon ISK write-offs in losses every month its still hard to spend it all. However then answer to the question would be enough ISK to cover your Market orders +10%. Thats how I doooooz it! . Sales Thread - About Us
RutilusUnus	Posted - 2010.11.18 18:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Vorekk I didn't read the OP or any replies. But... ISK in the wallet is ISK that isn't working for you. Pretty much this. Whatever you aren't using is just sitting there doing nothing. Since you have an orca you could invest in some modules that you can buy low in your area and can sell for a good markup in jita. It's fairly simple and makes good isk. It just takes awhile due to the probability of low volume.
satane Amarr The Contracteere	Posted - 2010.11.18 20:24:00 - [26] Always likes to have about 5 bil liquid for bulk deals and good deals always helps :P but i wont argue against having little isk in wallet as possible, - Sat The Contracteere'
sir gankalot	Posted - 2010.11.18 22:05:00 - [27] About 15 billion on a 30 billion NAV. Why? Cuz I'm too lazy...
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.11.19 00:38:00 - [28] I agree keeping a vast % of your isk in a liquidated state is not to your advantage. Its just dumb unless like the one dude, you gamble...but thats dumb too.
Ralien Tor	Posted - 2010.11.19 02:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Loney Originally by: Razz XXX However then answer to the question would be enough ISK to cover your Market orders +10%. That's a comfortable place to have your cash level, and is pretty much what I do as well.
FraggedBroker	Posted - 2010.11.19 10:37:00 - [30] Edited by: FraggedBroker on 19/11/2010 10:37:38 I've got anywhere from 1bil, up to about 15-20 liquid at any given time. Depends how business is going really. Also like to keep isk around for investment opportunities, although i don't stick it in a dark place and call it "reserved for random". Also depends on how you trade really. I'd figure with market orders it really depends on how much you use margin trading.

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