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Avaiya	Posted - 2010.11.14 15:18:00 - [1] Hi, i am just wondering how possible lowsec freighter hauling is with 1 scout. I read you can logoff at gates (i assume that is not an exploit) which gives an enemy 1 minute (is this correct?) to shoot you. Assuming about 170k EHP in a freighter and a scout in a falcon which might be able to jam something and scout the biggest gate camps, how likely is it to get catched anyways? Anyone with practical experience? Anything special to watch out for or to take into consideration? The systems i am planning on are "usually" mostly blue, 3-4 jumps deep into lowsec. Av
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.14 16:27:00 - [2] Unless you want to lose your shiny ship, dont bother unless you have a large escort. Jump freighters were made for this very reason.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.11.14 16:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Avaiya Hi, HiDOT Quote: I read you can logoff at gates (i assume that is not an exploit) which gives an enemy 1 minute (is this correct?) to shoot you. 30 seconds. Quote: Assuming about 170k EHP in a freighter and a scout in a falcon which might be able to jam something and scout the biggest gate camps, how likely is it to get catched anyways? The systems i am planning on are "usually" mostly blue, 3-4 jumps deep into lowsec. Not very likely. But "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" applies. Quote: Anyone with practical experience? Anything special to watch out for or to take into consideration? More than one scout would be better. When we run freighters through low/0.0, we always have a forward scout (+1), a rear scout (-1) and a webber at the least. Usually a few more people scouting systems a few jumps away in each direction. If you are low on scouts, don't warp from gate to gate, but gate -> safespot -> gate. Gives you some extra time to think and wait, you are not commiting yourself to jumping if you run into trouble. Watch out for probers! Avoid well-known pirate systems, Rancer, Tama, OMS, etc. A large escort fleet attracts a lot of attention, but can also scare off opportunists. Jump Freighters have their role, but Freighters do too. ___________
Earendil CJB Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.14 19:58:00 - [4] Watch out for smaller ships that will try to continuously bump you out of alignment so you cannot warp until their backup arrives. In short even though ceptors can't tackle you in low sec they can do just as good if they just keep ramming you hard enough.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.11.14 20:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Earendil CJB Watch out for smaller ships that will try to continuously bump you out of alignment so you cannot warp until their backup arrives. In short even though ceptors can't tackle you in low sec they can do just as good if they just keep ramming you hard enough. Yeah and they get quite ****ed when after 30 seconds of bumping you, your ship just vanishes.
Avaiya	Posted - 2010.11.14 21:55:00 - [6] So i gather so far that using a freighter in lowsec with a scout and some basic precautions is actually not so dangerous after all. Considering the logging off, does it make a difference to really "log off", crtl+q or close the client?
Mal Lokrano Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.14 22:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Avaiya So i gather so far that using a freighter in lowsec with a scout and some basic precautions is actually not so dangerous after all. Considering the logging off, does it make a difference to really "log off", crtl+q or close the client? There is no difference, but you would have to log of before you get shot at (by anything). Afterward it becomes 15 minutes and then you are very likely screwed. It is still not very advisable to do it with a single scout. Your best bet at survivability is to have a good sized escort. A freighter in lowsec is a very vulnerable ship. With precautions it isn't a big deal for the most part, and if you chose your route wisely you might even find routes that are mostly empty. You just have to be smart about it. _____ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two. Your friendly neighborhood pod liberator.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.15 14:57:00 - [8] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 15/11/2010 14:58:01 Originally by: Avaiya So i gather so far that using a freighter in lowsec with a scout and some basic precautions is actually not so dangerous after all. Considering the logging off, does it make a difference to really "log off", crtl+q or close the client? Even if you do log off, they know where you logged off and might wait for you to log on again. also, even if your alt sees the way is clear, it takes you that long to move the thing about that a whole gang can creep up on you in seconds, before its even turned 180 for the warp. It will be possible to do but it may involve alot of waiting around, maybe days, depending how long your route is.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.15 20:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 15/11/2010 20:05:52 I've taken a freighter (Charon) into lowsec once. It was a mistake; I was navigating by map, and was fixated on the sec of the destination system. When I jumped into the 0.4 system my reaction was a mixture of HUH? and WTFOMFGWTH! It took almost no time for someone to notice me, and try to bump me away from the gate. As it was a cruiser, he didn't want to risk the gate guns until his friends arrived. The bumping didn't work, and I got away. Lucky. When traveling through lowsec in my Crane blockade runner, I occasionally see the wrecks of the odd freighter near a gate. It is just too much risk for anything other than a jump freighter that can jump to a station and dock after the session change timer runs out.
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2010.11.15 21:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Pharos Pharos on 15/11/2010 21:14:09 As someone who has tried to hunt freighters in lowsec, I can testify to their invulnerability if you know what you're doing. Jump into a camp? If you log off under gate cloak there is roughly zero chance the average camp will be able to pop you before you disappear (30 seconds). Just make sure to not web your freighter to make it warp faster so you avoid any aggression timers. Then just wait awhile and have an alt keep an eye out for if it's clear. If they're smart, they'll have address booked you and have a logon trap waiting - in that case, just log again while you're still in the ewarp back to where you logged from, and you'll still be fine. If they seem dedicated enough to get get enough bs's to gank you when you land (very unlikely), just wait 3-4 hours before logging on again. Rinse and repeat until you have gotten to your destination.
Apocalypsee Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.15 23:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Pharos Pharos Edited by: Pharos Pharos on 15/11/2010 21:14:09 As someone who has tried to hunt freighters in lowsec, I can testify to their invulnerability if you know what you're doing. Jump into a camp? If you log off under gate cloak there is roughly zero chance the average camp will be able to pop you before you disappear (30 seconds). Just make sure to not web your freighter to make it warp faster so you avoid any aggression timers. Then just wait awhile and have an alt keep an eye out for if it's clear. If they're smart, they'll have address booked you and have a logon trap waiting - in that case, just log again while you're still in the ewarp back to where you logged from, and you'll still be fine. If they seem dedicated enough to get get enough bs's to gank you when you land (very unlikely), just wait 3-4 hours before logging on again. Rinse and repeat until you have gotten to your destination. fyi ccp nerd the login log off while warping from your e-warp spot. it warps you back to where you e-warped to.. then times out and you e-warp again. If someone wants you dead they will follow you every time and get you sooner or later.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.15 23:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Pharos Pharos If they seem dedicated enough to get get enough bs's to gank you when you land (very unlikely), just wait 3-4 hours before logging on again. Or one ship that can tank the guns lol
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2010.11.15 23:41:00 - [13] Did I miss some patch? Since when is the non-aggressed disappearing timer 30 seconds? It's always been 60 seconds traditionally. As for low-sec freighter travel, don't. --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
Jita Bloodtear	Posted - 2010.11.16 00:24:00 - [14] Confirmed, it's 60 seconds until you vanish for both CTRL-Q and X'ing out the client. Just tested it to make sure --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System
Patri Andari Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2010.11.16 00:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Jita Bloodtear Confirmed, it's 60 seconds until you vanish for both CTRL-Q and X'ing out the client. Just tested it to make sure When using a freighter in low sec, it is advisable to never CTRL-Q or X out of client. Instead, use another client to load another character on the same account as the freighter toon and a cloaked alt on diff account but in the same system to confirm log off. Only way to be sure, or so I hear. Patri I'll Roshambo You For That Titan!
Cameron Freerunner	Posted - 2010.11.16 16:30:00 - [16] You know what your scout can't see? A cloaked recon with a covert cyno to jump a stealth bomber gang. Or any cloaked ship with a cyno to jump a carrier onto you. Or a log in trap. It isn't a good idea to run freighters in losec without an escort that can fight off an attack long enough for you to break contact and escape. Even if you manage to log off, you have to log back in at some point. I believe there is a thread around here somewhere about how to beat the logoffski trick. Also keep in mind that freighters warp slooooow. You get one of those 150+ AU warps and you're looking at 4 or 5 minutes from gate to gate. That's a lot of time for someone to get something together.
andynoble Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Avaiya So i gather so far that using a freighter in lowsec with a scout and some basic precautions is actually not so dangerous after all. Considering the logging off, does it make a difference to really "log off", crtl+q or close the client? Logging off is cheating. A freighter will also go pop far quicker than you think it will!
Tothtelar	Posted - 2010.11.16 21:04:00 - [18] 170.000 ehp... and its aaaaaaaall structure. No Invuls. Just Meatshield. That won¦t hold long... =)
Zeta Zhul Caldari Preemptive Paranoia	Posted - 2010.11.21 16:58:00 - [19] Use a blockade runner. That is what they are in the game for.
Rustpunk Ghost Festival	Posted - 2010.11.21 19:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Zeta Zhul Use a blockade runner. That is what they are in the game for. BRs are made for running nullsec bubble camps. In lowsec, you'll carry a lot more with essentially the same safety using a DST with a MWD and improved cloak. I know a few pilots who do that with an Orca, but I've not run it myself.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.11.21 20:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Rustpunk Originally by: Zeta Zhul Use a blockade runner. That is what they are in the game for. BRs are made for running nullsec bubble camps. In lowsec, you'll carry a lot more with essentially the same safety using a DST with a MWD and improved cloak. I know a few pilots who do that with an Orca, but I've not run it myself. Yeah, try to run a camp in that. I'll bring the popcorn.. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker
Greg Huff	Posted - 2010.11.22 00:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Rustpunk Originally by: Zeta Zhul Use a blockade runner. That is what they are in the game for. BRs are made for running nullsec bubble camps. In lowsec, you'll carry a lot more with essentially the same safety using a DST with a MWD and improved cloak. I know a few pilots who do that with an Orca, but I've not run it myself. Yeah, try to run a camp in that. I'll bring the popcorn.. Make mine with extra butter.
Rustpunk Ghost Festival	Posted - 2010.11.22 00:33:00 - [23] I've run many lowsec gate camps in a DST with MWD and cloak, as have other people. I don't claim at all to be the best with this tactic, but I do well enough that the only place I get popped is on stations.
rain9441 Big Head Want Dolly	Posted - 2010.11.22 02:06:00 - [24] A DST can die from a low sec gate camp if there is an inty dragging around drones to decloak you. It's not a matter of if really. It's when. I'd take a DST through some low sec with that strategy but I wouldn't go anywhere near Amamake or any other system of the type.
gammatude	Posted - 2010.11.22 04:54:00 - [25] Partial thread jack as there seem to be some good replys here. What about the case of jumping from high sec through one low sec system only and then back into high sec? I.E. crossing a one system gap in which the low sec system is between two high sec systems. Seems like you only need one scout then. Never done it and just asking.
Greg Huff	Posted - 2010.11.22 06:47:00 - [26] Check the statistics on the star map (number of pilots in space, number of kills, etc.) to get an idea of what you might be jumping into. Get your scout in to check it out and make your judgement call. Whether a single low-sec system will be safe or not depends on activity in the systems around it, mood of the pilots, the phase of the moon, etc.

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