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CarmenIbanez
Entropy Exploration And Excavation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to get an opinion from the citizens of New Eden. Do you think that using off-grid command links such as a boosting Loki in a 1v1 situation be considered "dishonorable"? Leave a reply with your view on the topic as well as any stories or arguments you have. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
292
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gay
On holiday. -áIn some other world.
Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours.
To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent,
It was a sun-á |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
480
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a fleet booster myself, grow a ******* pair and boost on grid you coward.
Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á |
CarmenIbanez
Entropy Exploration And Excavation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:As a fleet booster myself, grow a ******* pair and boost on grid you coward.
To be more specific, I am referring to the all to common 1v1 frigate brawls in low security space. As in, using another character to provide off-grid links to gain that unfair advantage. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
184
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
CarmenIbanez wrote:Aiwha wrote:As a fleet booster myself, grow a ******* pair and boost on grid you coward. To be more specific, I am referring to the all to common 1v1 frigate brawls in low security space. As in, using another character to provide off-grid links to gain that unfair advantage.
If you want a 1v1, get in the same fleet as the person you are 1v1ing at a safespot and and confirm there's no links. Also helps to slow down reinforcements jumping you if they are losing. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
Caldari State Capturing
186
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Everything is acceptable if it is not an exploit.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings
Ushra'Khan
98
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Offgrid boosts are how you become an ~ELITE PVPER~.
Rabble Rabble!! |
Lugalzagezi666
47
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Once you have gang booster its not 1v1. Its the same thing as ecming your target with falcon, repping yourself with a logi or warping in another combat ship to facemelt the opponent.
Claiming such fight was 1v1 and you actually soloed your opponent is gay.
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Metal Icarus
A.M. Rebellion
242
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Posted - 2012.08.08 17:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Consider a 1v1 where your opponent has links, you don't, and you still win. What does that say about your own skills at 1v1s?
A lot. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
312
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Posted - 2012.08.08 17:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
If there's a verbal agreement to a 1v1, using links is poor taste and not considered honorable. Getting into the same fleet remedies this. If its just roaming around and engaging people links are entirely appropiate, especially when most players you fight try to run away and come back with 2-3 times your numbers (with their own links too).
When faced with such bravery using loki (point them so they must stay and fight!), proteus (because they brought enough ecm to perma-jam your whole gang!), and your choice of tengu or legion links depending on your tank (because you are outnumbered 3 to 1, otherwise you would not be getting a fight!) is entirely appropiate.  |
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Dan Carter Murray
51
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Posted - 2012.08.08 17:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/ryMAE.png
that is all.
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Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Late Night Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.08.08 18:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:http://i.imgur.com/ryMAE.png
that is all.
Thank you, now I won't sleep for a week. 
As for the boosters, I have mixed feelings, I view them along the lines of buff-bots in DAoC. They can easily make or break a fight, and originally only a few people had them. There was lots of crying and whining about how unfair it was, then people started to shutup and join them until it was pretty much the norm that if you were going to be running "solo" or in a small group you needed to be sure and buff up before heading out if you wanted to be competitive in any way. I held out for as long as I could, then said screw it, got a second account for a buff-bot and never looked back.
I think you will see the same with Eve, with Eve at least it is harder to keep that booster safe, which I guess is something. My only advice is:
1. Learn who uses boosters and remember them.
2. Never expect a fair fight.
3. If it really matters that much, time to start a new account and get your own.
I do not have a booster myself, but after being in a fleet with a max skilled booster.... I wish I did. |
Abannan
Moira.
Villore Accords
19
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Posted - 2012.08.08 18:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like scanning down peoples links and killing them, good fun |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1822
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Posted - 2012.08.08 19:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have a problem with the term 'honour' in Eve - a game where ruthless megacorporations are supposed to fight each other with all means possible.
This is not Q3 Arena, where people meet for a duel of skills - having an honourable '1on1' makes about as much sense to me as firing up your favourite RTS game and agree to meet with one infantry guy in the middle of the battlefield - it entirely defeats the purpose of the game, which is finding a strategy where you are in the favourable position - preferrably by making the other guy(s) wrongly assume he is in the favourable position.
Having that said, in seven years of playing this game, I have never used an offgrid booster despite of having characters very well capable of doing it and tripleboxing on three screens.
Probing alt? Yes. Hauling around some cap boosters for my PvP character in a Blockade Runner? Yes.
Falcon alts or offgrid boosters? Never.
It's not entirely rational and I can't blame people using the current mechanics to their full extent, but I wont - simply because i consider these mechanics entirely broken.
I play games to have a good time, and I have a better time losing some fights than winning whilst using mechanics I despise.
I don't use ECM drones or jammers for the same reason (when I loot them I even don't sell those items on - I either reprocess them or jet them and shoot the can, no matter what they're worth).
Guess it's some categorical imperative thing rooted so deeply within my personality I carried it over from RL - or I'm just a moron.
You know... morons. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
2581
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
If it's 1v1 then who are you boosting?
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Generals4
1021
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
I say: the Falcon is missing
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
346
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
CarmenIbanez wrote:I would like to get an opinion from the citizens of New Eden. Do you think that using off-grid command links such as a boosting Loki in a 1v1 situation be considered "dishonorable"? Leave a reply with your view on the topic as well as any stories or arguments you have.
Personally, ill take any advantage i can get and expect my enemy to do the same. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
807
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Honor has never won anyone a battle.
Being pro and 1337pvp has never won anyone a battle.
15% extra shields might well be the advantage you need to win a battle. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
158
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Get on grid. |
Griznatch
Xicron Syndicate
Tus Network
154
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Honor has never won anyone a battle.
Being pro and 1337pvp has never won anyone a battle.
15% extra shields might well be the advantage you need to win a battle.
/thread
I used to have a clever sig but I lost it. |
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Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
484
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Posted - 2012.08.09 01:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
It ultimately limits you on the battlefield. You either sit in one spot and wait for the enemy to come to you or you move methodically and ponderously through systems giving everyone lots of time to get out of your way. And as stated above, once you learn who the boosters are you can make an informed decision as whether to fight or flee. There is no shame in not engaging someone backed by a billion isk toy.
I don't judge someone if they have the booster alt. I judge them by what they do when they don't have it. Are you going to come get me in this plex? Or do you have to log in your booster and move it four jumps first? CCP has stated their intent to kill off-grid boosting. When they do the people who can't function without one are going to be in a world of hurt. |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
145
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Posted - 2012.08.09 01:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:I have a problem with the term 'honour' in Eve - a game where ruthless megacorporations are supposed to fight each other with all means possible.
This is not Q3 Arena, where people meet for a duel of skills - having an honourable '1on1' makes about as much sense to me as firing up your favourite RTS game and agree to meet with one infantry guy in the middle of the battlefield - it entirely defeats the purpose of the game, which is finding a strategy where you are in the favourable position - preferrably by making the other guy(s) wrongly assume he is in the favourable position.
Having that said, in seven years of playing this game, I have never used an offgrid booster despite of having characters very well capable of doing it and tripleboxing on three screens.
Probing alt? Yes. Hauling around some cap boosters for my PvP character in a Blockade Runner? Yes.
Falcon alts or offgrid boosters? Never.
It's not entirely rational and I can't blame people using the current mechanics to their full extent, but I wont - simply because i consider these mechanics entirely broken.
I play games to have a good time, and I have a better time losing some fights than winning whilst using mechanics I despise.
I don't use ECM drones or jammers for the same reason (when I loot them I even don't sell those items on - I either reprocess them or jet them and shoot the can, no matter what they're worth).
Guess it's some categorical imperative thing rooted so deeply within my personality I carried it over from RL - or I'm just a moron.
This. I don't mind that people use them, but I don't do it myself.
Now, honestly I fully trained my hauler alt for both Falcon and Links. Just have never used them. Like you said, it's some kind of strange personality quirk. I just typically don't cheat or bend the rules, even when no one is looking. It's kinda stupid actually. /shrug
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
6
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
So using some of the logic I've heard that using an offgrid booster is unfair then you can make the same argument for faction implants, and drugs. I think if it's in the game it's entirely fair. If you don't like it then don't use a booster, but I've spent time and effort training alts to do just that and to nerf them because some of the blobbier alliance don't like small gangs coming deep into 0.0 and giving good fight, then I say tough ****.Plus whenever I 1 v 1, I get into fleet with my opponent and warp to a ss to fight. It eliminates the bonus factor plus gives you a few second head start in the case of dishonor. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
809
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Posted - 2012.08.09 07:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think any big alliances are really loudly complaining about command links. They're commonly used and accepted in alliance warfare. It's mostly the "I want a 1v1 but I want it to be on MY terms and I want CCP to enforce MY terms for me" crowd. |
Diana Kim
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
76
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Posted - 2012.08.09 08:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Using a booster means it is already 2 players, so it is not 1vs1 anymore.
How honorable or acceptable this is, everyone decides for himself. Just as I said, it is not practically 1vs1 anymore, while can be seen by others as 1vs1. Same as bringing a cloaky logi/falcon/cyno whatever.
If I agree to 1v1, I won't bring (or stay in a fleet with) a booster, of course. |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.08.09 09:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Clarify 1v1?
1 person v 1 person
or
1 ship v 1 ship
If it isn't explicitly the latter, assume the former. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
15
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Posted - 2012.08.09 09:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fair is fair and war is war, and the two don't have a close relationship. If you challenge someone to a 1v1 and have someone in another ship providing you boosts or logi support or jamming support, then it's not a 1v1 and you've proven nothing other than that you're a sneaky bastard who'll do anything to prevail. Which is sort of the core philosophy of EVE, but doesn't have anything to do with honor.
Booster pills and implants are fine; that's just you. Anything you can do to make yourself a better pilot, or your own ship a better platform, without bringing another pilot/ship into it, is fair game in a 1v1, in my opinion.
On the other hand ... if you just go out looking for a brawl, and you "challenge" the other guy by hitting him with a disruptor, then he's under no obligation to take you on 1v1. If I'm minding my own business and someone decides to scram me and open fire, I'm not blackening my reputation if I've got friends in system who are ready and willing to drop on the aggressor's head, rep me up, point and scram him and throw enough DPS to grind him into tinsel. |
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
6
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Posted - 2012.08.09 09:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vytone wrote:So using some of the logic I've heard that using an offgrid booster is unfair then you can make the same argument for faction implants, and drugs. I think if it's in the game it's entirely fair. If you don't like it then don't use a booster, but I've spent time and effort training alts to do just that and to nerf them because some of the blobbier alliance don't like small gangs coming deep into 0.0 and giving good fight, then I say tough ****. Plus whenever I 1 v 1, I get into fleet with my opponent and warp to a ss to fight. It eliminates the bonus factor plus gives you a few second head start in the case of dishonor.
If bigger alliances are complaining about off-grid boosters then fine, create a system upgrade they can install that would "jam" or nullify boosting altogether in that particular system that's upgraded. Make it expensive so it doesnt make fiscal sense to upgrade a region, but don't completely destroy a game mechanic based on some peoples dislike for off-grid boosters.
I for one have a second account that I used specifically for boosting. If it gets nerfed, then that's 1 less account being paid for to CCP. If they care about their subscriber-ship, they will take into account the alts used for boosting that will go unsubbed. It's just bad business.
I agree about 1 vs. 1's that's why I said I get into fleet with people, but otherwise I don't understand why some people's dislike boosting alts .
And yes there is some chatter regarding boosting alts among the bigger alliances, as discussed in the cCSM meeting. |
Lugalzagezi666
49
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Posted - 2012.08.09 11:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vytone wrote:I agree about 1 vs. 1's that's why I said I get into fleet with people, but otherwise I don't understand why some people's dislike boosting alts.
I personally dislike them because they significantly affect the fight without getting into any real risk, sometimes completely unnoticed (especially when we are taling about "1v1s"). And mostly because they require close to zero effort, attention and piloting skills to provide massive benefits.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
1832
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vytone wrote:So using some of the logic I've heard that using an offgrid booster is unfair then you can make the same argument for faction implants, and drugs.
I disagree - I often use implants, but the difference is that these assets are present in the fight. If my pod gets killed I'm 2.x billion isk poorer. Granted, the likelihood of my pod getting killed is miniscule in lowsec, but running into some smarbombing BS whilst podding it home bears way more risk than doing it in a cloaky T3.
Concerning boosters: They have side effects, so either you make a fit that isn't susceptible to any of the possible side-effects or you'll have some drawback. When CCP thought about boosting them by removing the side effects entirely, people rightfully argued that if they only offer benefits, they'd become a pure necessity.
CCP realized the problem and canceled their plans.
Now off-grid boosters - once the initial investment has been made - are a a risk free bonus without any drawback (and don't tell me there's a risk - make a few proper safes, set D-scan-range according to your ships signature radius, hit it every now and then and if probes appear, warp to the next safe - rinse and repeat - the people getting their booster alts killed must be complete clodpoles).
Quote:I think if it's in the game it's entirely fair.
Agreed - that's why it should be taken out of the game.
Quote:If bigger alliances are complaining about off-grid boosters then fine, create a system upgrade they can install that would "jam" or nullify boosting altogether in that particular system that's upgraded. Make it expensive so it doesnt make fiscal sense to upgrade a region, but don't completely destroy a game mechanic based on some peoples dislike for off-grid boosters.
First you say you use them as a counter to blobby alliances and then you mention they should be able to upgrade their space with offgrid booster jammers? Hello? Anybody home?
In general, I think 'the other side is blobbing so I use an exploit a flawed game mechanic' is just a bad excuse for bad PvP players who carebeared their way up to be able to buy a risk-free advantage, which will soon be a necessity.
It discourages young players from grabbing their ft1 frig and go out on their own to shoot things because every other guy they encounter has an offgrid booster
Luckily, CCP has stated they want it gone on numerous occasions and have shown they will enforce such things if they are detrimental to gameplay (see the falcon nerf as an example - whilst still being used by some, their use is far less rampant than it was pre-nerf and I guess a lot of falcon alts were unsubbed back then).
You know... morons. |
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