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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:39:00 -
[1]
 Quote:
- CCP GingerDude
PS. Just to make it clear. Performance improvements are being worked on. Several optimizations are already on Tranquility and more are in the deployment pipeline and even more are being worked on. Lagfixing is not a bugfix. It's a granular process with occasional big wins. Don't go all "why're you doing this when you should've fixed lag?" Infrastructure must be upgraded when you want to optimize.
Many workhours are going into optimizing server performance, and it is appreciated.
But with fleetfights getting bigger and bigger due to growing multi-alliance coalitions, can your teams working on the hardware keep up with the lag aside from decreasing it?
Faith has always been a savior for eveplayer. My question is, are there plans to decrease fleetsizes by giving allainces incentives to fight on their own?
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:42:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
are there plans to decrease fleetsizes by giving allainces incentives to fight on their own?
3/10
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Quote:
- CCP GingerDude
PS. Just to make it clear. Performance improvements are being worked on. Several optimizations are already on Tranquility and more are in the deployment pipeline and even more are being worked on. Lagfixing is not a bugfix. It's a granular process with occasional big wins. Don't go all "why're you doing this when you should've fixed lag?" Infrastructure must be upgraded when you want to optimize.
Many workhours are going into optimizing server performance, and it is appreciated.
But with fleetfights getting bigger and bigger due to growing multi-alliance coalitions, can your teams working on the hardware keep up with the lag aside from decreasing it?
Faith has always been a savior for eveplayer. My question is, are there plans to decrease fleetsizes by giving allainces incentives to fight on their own?
rex, you've been in this game for quite some time, and so I'll ask you this: are you really sure that is there a clear-cut way to split up the blobs? I mean, if any, the blobs have been increasing since day one, and it's nigh on impossible to stop them growing, as far as alliance warfare goes.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mr Cocojambo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:47:00 -
[4]
EvE will soon become like Star Wars.. One big imperial fleet and a few doomed rebels 
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mr Cocojambo
EvE will soon become like Star Wars.. One big imperial fleet and a few doomed rebels
and then someone puts a torp on someone's ventilation shaft, and FIREWORKS!!! happen.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:02:00 -
[6]
Oh the blob, why won't you die?
If you limit the number of ships a fleet can bring, then they will all escalate up in power, and you'll have All Caps vs Caps, well not truly, but you get the idea.
If you impose restrictions, like X Frigates to Y Cruisers to Z Battleships, players will rage, and it isn't very sandboxy.
In Naval combat, there simply is a limit to how many ships can effectively participate, and your weapons to defense are more unbalanced, ships go down easier, and being too close makes it worse. Eve has no practical limit to fleets, if they implemented Line of Sight, you'd see a new battlefield, there'd be uses for small teams of ships to operate independently, but collision detection would ONLY slow down play.
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|| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. ||
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Feligast
Minmatar
Intentionally Destructive
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:09:00 -
[7]
Along that same vein, a way to break up the blob... implement splash damage. Of course that would be even worse when it came to server load and lag. 
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Faith has always been a savior for eveplayer. My question is, are there plans to decrease fleetsizes by giving allainces incentives to fight on their own?
rex, you've been in this game for quite some time, and so I'll ask you this: are you really sure that is there a clear-cut way to split up the blobs? I mean, if any, the blobs have been increasing since day one, and it's nigh on impossible to stop them growing, as far as alliance warfare goes.
I think there is a way to split up the blob. The original idea for 0.0 Dominion was to split up the objectives in terms of attacking the regional gates to make the region vulnerable then constellation gates to make the constellation vulnerable, etc. But this was overruled by a former player and new dev, Seleene aka CCP Abathur the worst game dev ever. So now we have the same single objective and so hence blobbing that made Dominion such a failure.
I think that different rules to sov can certainly discourage blobbing. I always use the example of a BF game in which there are like 11 control points. If one side blobs all of their units and steamrolls around the map, a much smaller force of spread out players covering all the control points will always win. Now before you rage at me I realize that a game of BF takes like 20mins and EVE 0.0 sov is based on being fair to alliances who do not have 23.5/7 coverage.
But I do not see why we can't at least try splitting up objectives within a region/constellation as well as multiple objectives within a system. I also think that all the advantages for the defender hinder the amount of combat we get. Once the defender loses his advantages they just give up because if they lose with big advantages now what chance do they have. If the defender didn't have such huge advantages then we might see alliances of similar size and strength going at each other and a back and forth struggle because the attacker does not need to bring overwhelming odds.
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It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Grimpak
rex, you've been in this game for quite some time, and so I'll ask you this: are you really sure that is there a clear-cut way to split up the blobs? I mean, if any, the blobs have been increasing since day one, and it's nigh on impossible to stop them growing, as far as alliance warfare goes.
I absolutely do, would ccp ask for ideas on how to make this happen theyd get 100 pages a day to pick something worthwhile to work on. I dont know how long they worked on the wormholes, but i wouldve been sceptical bout ever seeing it ingame, had anyone told me about that idea before it was announced. just announcing plans, or willingness to look into ways of changing 0.0 to decrease fleetsizes would go along way imo.
Good to see you still around btw, im feeling all at home in immensea again ;)
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:19:00 -
[10]
they just havent shifted the game mehcaniocs away from blobs are us. How about if theres more than 500 in local that all shields armour and hull on all ships is decreased by 50% consider it a incursion feature
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: HeliosGal
they just havent shifted the game mehcaniocs away from blobs are us. How about if theres more than 500 in local that all shields armour and hull on all ships is decreased by 50% consider it a incursion feature
exploitable, and it doesn't kill the blob anyway.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.24 08:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Grimpak
the problem in "splitting the blob" is that instead seeing one 1000vs1000 battle, with the progression on how fleet battles are going atm, we'll be seeing an x number of 1000vs1000 battles going on at any given time, if atempting to "split" it.
Artificial limitations on fleets don't work either because they are exploitable, as are AoE weapons (old DDD)
in the end, I would like to "split the blob" yes, but that would also seem to be an invitation to make it even more blobtastic.
Atm CCP's method seems to improve server capabilities so that they can handle the battle numbers in a single system of today's warfare, because as far as server capabilities go, it seems that it's much more easy to handle everyone in a single system shooting than everyone in multiple systems shooting
As little as i understand the techtalk in the devblogs, it seems that the problem is that they cannot assign several cores to one system to handle the thousands of players, however were those split between systems they essentially could share the load between cores.
As for actually getting ppl to not band up in fleets of thousands, i know it is possible because ppl dont really want to do that. There are many who like fighting within large fleets, but not the those that crash systems.
I dont think ccp could wiggle a magic wand and make things all better, instead working on a number of changes that most of all give alliances incentives or even ways of surviving outside of huge alliance coalitions is the way to go imo.
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2010.11.24 08:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Eclorc on 24/11/2010 08:49:31
Something Vaal Erit mentioned about BF control points, rang a small bell in my head...
Would it be practical to change Sovereignty to be based on Constellations, INSTEAD of Systems?
i.e. You have to take the majority (more than half) of systems in that constellation to get the timer running down in order to claim Sov for that constellation?
Has this ever been proposed / argued / considered?
(edit:spelling) |
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:01:00 -
[14]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari
The Technomages
Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Posting just so the last poster doesn't have a CCP tag on them, getting my hopes up that someone is going to respond beyond a "Moved" post.
-More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Sasha1 Stiigs
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:17:00 -
[16]
This is also part of the problem I have been edging towards also in the section 'null islands - null expansion'. Large fleets and coalitions etc are in the end going to cripple the game. I do think it's a real problem for the future of eve and if some fairly drastic action isn't taken in the foreseeable future we will be under Darth Vadar and the Emperor's rule. The only other way around it is all the smaller alliances get together and lag out the large ops so that they all stop playing :) (joke) - and I agree Rexthor incentives or something are needed - even possibly for smaller alliances... dare I say
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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:18:00 -
[17]
Random thought about blobs:
What if the warp bubbles from individual ships would have a physical effect on other ships.
E.g. if 1 - 5 ships warp to the gate, they'll land pretty much on top of it,
but if more then 10 warp to the same gate, they'll end up outside of the gate's range, making it harder to travel with a big gang.
Ofcourse, you could expand this to individual positioning as a whole, making sure that the bigger the blob, the further the physics system forces them apart, making alpha and focus fire harder for bigger blobs.
Like I said, just random thoughts, have fun taking potshots at them :P
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Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser:
http://gemblog.nl/skill/ |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.24 11:10:00 -
[18]
The solution is pretty simple. Make locking time increase by %1 per ship on grid above a certain number. People will stop blobbing if all they can do is sit there waiting for a lock to complete.
Its makes sense from a gameplay perspective too. frig fast lock, cruiser med lock, battleship slow lock, capital very slow lock, blob very very very slow lock.
Ya might say well then people will deliberately blob a system to defend their territory. Let them sit there bored and go and kill something else. If they then jump into system with a massive blob while your killing a pos, you already have it locked anyway. They can sit there and wait for you to kill it and leave or they can bring a reasonable sized fleet and defend it.
Sig
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Quote:
Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.24 12:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Moved into the graveyard instead of posting a sentence on the subject, i guess that counts as a reply.
Hope your server guys can keep up.
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Mr Mordan
Focused Fire
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2010.11.24 15:35:00 -
[20]
Infinity, yet another awesome suggestion on how to reduce blobage. I couldn't agree more. I also love the comment above about doomed rebels. Fact is that the new SOV system was designed to do something very specific, and if you look at the sov map, you'll plainly see it didn't work. Honestly, I never understood how CCP ever thought that approach would be any different in outcome.. Even if large alliances didn't actually keep sov in their regions, they can easily keep everyone else out by just running over there and blobbing them and then retreating back to their core systems.. My deepest hope in the game is that CCP will stop wasting time finding yet more ways to do mining (moons, planets, roids, gas..), and start focusing on ways to deincentivize large alliances from controlling so much space.. There are many possibilities there, but CCP is unwilling to truely address it (in part, because the player counsel is guess what...).
Instead of worrying more about performance in one system, work on changing the game mechanics to reduce the need for such measures.. solve the problem, not the symptom.
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