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Bonus SP for learning skills to level 5

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Max Thunderbird	Posted - 2010.11.26 15:03:00 - [1] Playing 7 months. All my learning skills are at 5 except Presence at 4. Out of about 11 million SP, 43% are learning skills. I finished willpower about 1 1/2 months ago. The majority of my learning skill bonuses went to train ....tah dah ...more learning skills. If the skills were disappearing a year from now I probably would not be so disappointed. I don't know what the payback time is but I know it's longer than roughly two months. I know I would not have as many skill points if I had not trained learning skills and it will be nice to reassign the 4.3 million SP. However, there was a lot of stuff I could have trained and been doing that I had to put off because at some point I decided to plan for the long term. Also, the 20 million or so I spent on the skillbooks is not being refunded. To me, that's a significant amount of ISK. I would like to suggest that instead of a 1-1 refund of skill points, players get more. Something like learning skill trained to: lvl 1 2% bonus to refunded SP for that skill lvl 2 4% bonus lvl 3 6% bonus lvl 4 8% bonus lvl 5 10% bonus More would be better but this small bonus seems reasonable and will go a long way to stop me from feeling like I'm being penalized for planning to play EVE for a long time and planning ahead. As you have a tight deadline, you could give the bonus SP at a later date. CCP, please consider this. Thanks
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.11.26 15:12:00 - [2] By having the learning skills trained during those 7 months you accumulated more SP than one that would have used that time skilling for "useful" skills. So all in all you are much better off than someone not doing the learning skills after you have remapped all the reimbursed SP.
badal	Posted - 2010.11.26 18:16:00 - [3] CCp will not let the truth out ! The last rip off is about to come enjoy your bent over position !!
Dasquirrel715 Gallente 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.11.26 18:35:00 - [4] You should have read the forums and noticed that it is basically worthless to train the secondary learning skills (the rank 3 ones) to level 5, you would have had to train for 5 years or so to see the bonus. You did something no one usually does, because doing it is a bad, stupid idea. At least you get the SP back now.
badal	Posted - 2010.11.26 18:43:00 - [5] you need to know how long this game has been live let alone the beta, too bad you cant earn you learning skills to understand this simple FACT !
Hooligan Tool Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.11.27 04:23:00 - [6] CCP doesn't have to refund the skill points at all. We're lucky enough to be getting a 1:1 refund ratio, and you're looking for more ... why, exactly? You are actually coming out of the deal with more skill points this way, and you can start benefiting from them right away. Plus your training speed will be the same or very nearly so (or maybe higher like mine), depending on how you mapped your attributes. I'm sorry that you feel penalized, but you're actually not. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.27 07:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Dasquirrel715 You should have read the forums and noticed that it is basically worthless to train the secondary learning skills (the rank 3 ones) to level 5, you would have had to train for 5 years or so to see the bonus. You did something no one usually does, because doing it is a bad, stupid idea. At least you get the SP back now. Except now that you get them back, you'll have more SP than if you hadn't trained them. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Tomohiro Amaii	Posted - 2010.11.27 07:54:00 - [8] This is silly. You trained training skills and got extra SP... so you want more bonus SP on top of it all? If anything they should give a bonus to the people who have lower learning skills. We chose to train usefull stuff and enjoy playing their game while learning at a slower rate only to now get boosted up later because they it was a bad mechanic? What about all the SP I could have had.... woulda trained them if I knew it would come back to me later... and I don't mean the 5 years it would take to pay for itself.
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.11.27 10:13:00 - [9] Whiners Whine have some cheese -- Join BIG
Viscount Hood Gallivanting Travel Company	Posted - 2010.11.27 10:38:00 - [10] Originally by: RaTTuS Whiners Whine have some cheese and some crackers
Max Thunderbird	Posted - 2010.11.27 16:31:00 - [11] Using the mechanics of the game and figuring I would play for a few years I trained to 5. Since I had no way to know what CCP planned to do (I did not read anything official about this until the 11/25 announcement), how is training everything as fast as possible a bad, stupid idea? It is true that they do not have to refund any SP. I don't know about anyone else but I would just look for another game if they didn't refund them. That would be 2-3 months of training out of 7 just entirely wasted and I'd be extremely angry. Why do I feel I should get more than 1:1? First, I paid for the skill books and spent time training them. The investment of ISK and time was going to pay me back as long as I play EVE. I've only been able to use my investment for about 2 months, maybe 3 or 4 months on the first advanced skill I finished. I am being denied the full use of that investment. I'm not positive but I believe I will actually be training a little slower after the 14th. Second, I've missed the opportunity to earn a lot of ISK because I trained learning skills instead of BS/Strategic Cruiser/Hulk or whatever. If I had been playing a few years and at least been close to breaking even on my investment, I would not be asking for a bonus. My problem is with the timing of this change. Yes, I have a few more SP than someone who did not train to 5 but not enough to make up for the content I've missed out on and the opportunity to earn a lot more ISK. I would have suggested that players that have not realized the payback time for their training get a bonus amount of SP based on SP break even point less extra SP points already realized, but I figured keep it simple and it might have a chance.
Djinn Xh'rnae	Posted - 2010.11.27 17:13:00 - [12] No, you're wrong. It's the protein in the beans that make you fart. They don't actually have gas inside them.
Gallians	Posted - 2010.11.27 17:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Gallians on 27/11/2010 17:37:53 Originally by: Max Thunderbird Using the mechanics of the game and figuring I would play for a few years I trained to 5. Since I had no way to know what CCP planned to do (I did not read anything official about this until the 11/25 announcement), how is training everything as fast as possible a bad, stupid idea? It is true that they do not have to refund any SP. I don't know about anyone else but I would just look for another game if they didn't refund them. That would be 2-3 months of training out of 7 just entirely wasted and I'd be extremely angry. Why do I feel I should get more than 1:1? First, I paid for the skill books and spent time training them. The investment of ISK and time was going to pay me back as long as I play EVE. I've only been able to use my investment for about 2 months, maybe 3 or 4 months on the first advanced skill I finished. I am being denied the full use of that investment. I'm not positive but I believe I will actually be training a little slower after the 14th. Second, I've missed the opportunity to earn a lot of ISK because I trained learning skills instead of BS/Strategic Cruiser/Hulk or whatever. If I had been playing a few years and at least been close to breaking even on my investment, I would not be asking for a bonus. My problem is with the timing of this change. Yes, I have a few more SP than someone who did not train to 5 but not enough to make up for the content I've missed out on and the opportunity to earn a lot more ISK. I would have suggested that players that have not realized the payback time for their training get a bonus amount of SP based on SP break even point less extra SP points already realized, but I figured keep it simple and it might have a chance. Lets see, you paid isk and time to get your attributes to a higher level, and you got those attributes to a higher level. So nothing wrong there. You wanted to train faster, and you'll train faster. Still not seeing a problem. You will train a bit slower than you do now, but with the refunded SP, you will not be actually down anything for 8 years. Nope, no problem. And on top, in this time, you got more SP than people without the learnings, so you are still better off than if you hadnt trained. Conclusion: There is no problem, you got what you paid for with time and isk, come back in 8 years when you MIGHT have a problem, maybe, if the game is still around and they haven't revamped skills. Pointless, barely coeherent whine is pointless and barely coeherent. Edit: If you leave for wow can i haz your stuff plz?
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.11.27 17:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Max Thunderbird I would have suggested that players that have not realized the payback time for their training get a bonus amount of SP based on SP break even point less extra SP points already realized, but I figured keep it simple and it might have a chance. By getting all the learning skill points back you are in fact getting exactly this, your break even point back. You have gained extra skill points over the admittedly short period of time you trained them up for, more skill points than you would have had by not training them at least, AND you are getting your investment back. You have more than broken even, you have in fact come out ahead.
Vo Yager	Posted - 2010.11.27 19:16:00 - [15] If you had not trained everything to five you: a) would not have as many skillpoints as you do now, and b) would not have as much sp to look forward to come reimbursement day. So yes, you have come out ahead.
Hybok	Posted - 2010.11.27 19:43:00 - [16] CCP will : never gonna let you down ...
Missy Sasha	Posted - 2010.11.28 02:17:00 - [17] 20mil, rly dude? Don't quit your day job.
Dust Fourtwenty	Posted - 2010.11.28 10:11:00 - [18] Quote: Out of about 11 million SP, 43% are learning skills. ouch :( Lucky for you, you're being given a second chance. Be sure to invest in useful combat skills this time so you can have even more fun in the wonderful internet spaceship game that is EVE. The final decision is up to you, of course.
Adjal Kardjaval	Posted - 2010.11.29 01:59:00 - [19] idiot, here is the difference you get to enjoy, you gonna have 5 million sp to spend elsewhere, INSTANTLY getting 5 or 6 other skills to lvl 5, and guess what,YOU STILL HAVE THE MAJORITY BENEFIT OF LEARNING SKILLS IN THE +12 BASE ATTRIBUTE YOU WILL RECEIVE bad idea is just bad

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2010.11.29 07:57:00 - [20] Moved from 'Skill Discussions'. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online


CCP Fear	Posted - 2010.11.29 09:51:00 - [21] This was all covered in the blog. We aren't giving away extra SP. You will get exactly the amount of SP you trained and nothing extra. You also are better off or at the same place as you were before. Or even better, you get to retain all the attributes, plus you get alot of SP to spend on other skills that are useful and can benefit you right away. Keep in mind that if we hadn't removed the learning skills, you would have had to train them, so you are reaping a lot of benefits from this.

Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.11.29 09:55:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Fear This was all covered in the blog. We aren't giving away extra SP. You will get exactly the amount of SP you trained and nothing extra. You also are better off or at the same place as you were before. Or even better, you get to retain all the attributes, plus you get alot of SP to spend on other skills that are useful and can benefit you right away. Keep in mind that if we hadn't removed the learning skills, you would have had to train them, so you are reaping a lot of benefits from this. It depends on how you look at it, of course. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Koshiko Murakami	Posted - 2010.11.29 15:35:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Fear This was all covered in the blog. We aren't giving away extra SP. You will get exactly the amount of SP you trained and nothing extra. You also are better off or at the same place as you were before. Or even better, you get to retain all the attributes, plus you get alot of SP to spend on other skills that are useful and can benefit you right away. Keep in mind that if we hadn't removed the learning skills, you would have had to train them, so you are reaping a lot of benefits from this. Not true! One of my characters will train at 12 SP/hour less after the patch. (all the rest of them will be training at slightly to significantly faster than they are now)
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.11.30 03:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Koshiko Murakami Originally by: CCP Fear This was all covered in the blog. We aren't giving away extra SP. You will get exactly the amount of SP you trained and nothing extra. You also are better off or at the same place as you were before. Or even better, you get to retain all the attributes, plus you get alot of SP to spend on other skills that are useful and can benefit you right away. Keep in mind that if we hadn't removed the learning skills, you would have had to train them, so you are reaping a lot of benefits from this. Not true! One of my characters will train at 12 SP/hour less after the patch. (all the rest of them will be training at slightly to significantly faster than they are now) Oh no a whole 288 sp a day!! or 105120 Sp a year! CCP THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!! Grow up... Originally by: CCP Oveur Guess what I'm wearing.
Reaver Glitterstim	Posted - 2010.11.30 06:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Max Thunderbird Playing 7 months. I started about 3 months ago. I made 60 million isk mining with a buddy the other day. 5 hours. In high sec. With tech 1 strip miners. 60 million was my share. I'm not saying this to brag, or to heckle you. I just want to give you a few pointers on making easy isk. 20 million shouldn't be significant after 7 months. I don't know if you have a mining barge, but if you don't, you can mine alright in a destroyer/battlecruiser/battleship or one of the two mining cruisers (Osprey and Scythe). To do it in a destroyer or BC, you need to put coprocessors in the low slots to fit more mining lasers. If you have the CPU, try to fit Miner II lasers; however the XeCl Drilling Beam has the best mining amount to cpu cost ratio of any laser. That said: Mine Kernite or Jaspet. Kernite is found all throughout Amarr high security space. Both Jaspet and Kernite can be found in random gravimetric sites which you can find with scanner probes. Take every chance you get to mine Jaspet, as it sells pretty high. If you can't find kernite or jaspet, go for pyroxeres or plagioclase. Find a system without much population to mine in. Start filling a jettison can and go do something else; read a book, watch online TV, watch youtube videos, post on the forums, etc. Just check the game periodically to move the minerals from your cargo hold to the can. When it fills up, bookmark it and go get your hauler to haul it to the nearest station. With an Osprey, you can mine probably 3-5 million isk in an hour. In a retriever or a battleship, you could pull in more like 6-8 million per hour. If you can mine in a covetor or hulk, you can get 12-15 million isk per hour easy. And you can be doing something else that whole time. Hope that helps.
Max Thunderbird	Posted - 2010.12.04 03:31:00 - [26] Edited by: Max Thunderbird on 04/12/2010 03:32:35 With learning skills in the game I get 22,548,240 SP per year. With the change I get 22,074,726 SP per year. It's only a 2.1% loss but I would like to know how less SP makes me better off. I do not gain anything from the refunded SP, I will still have the same total SP once they are allocated. Better than no refund but I'm not gaining from the refund. BTW, I already trained all but one learning skill to 5 (2nd sentence, original post) so the "you would have had to train them" comment doesn't make sense.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.04 03:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Max Thunderbird Edited by: Max Thunderbird on 04/12/2010 03:32:35 With learning skills in the game I get 22,548,240 SP per year. With the change I get 22,074,726 SP per year. It's only a 2.1% loss but I would like to know how less SP makes me better off. I do not gain anything from the refunded SP, I will still have the same total SP once they are allocated. Better than no refund but I'm not gaining from the refund. BTW, I already trained all but one learning skill to 5 (2nd sentence, original post) so the "you would have had to train them" comment doesn't make sense. Frankly, no one cares. --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.
Boinz Caldari Muffin Munchers	Posted - 2010.12.04 06:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Max Thunderbird Edited by: Max Thunderbird on 04/12/2010 03:32:35 With learning skills in the game I get 22,548,240 SP per year. With the change I get 22,074,726 SP per year. It's only a 2.1% loss but I would like to know how less SP makes me better off. I do not gain anything from the refunded SP, I will still have the same total SP once they are allocated. Better than no refund but I'm not gaining from the refund. BTW, I already trained all but one learning skill to 5 (2nd sentence, original post) so the "you would have had to train them" comment doesn't make sense. You obviously arent getting the fact that you will have to play for 10 years to notice the "loss of sp per year" after you redistribute your points. Originally by: CCP Oveur Guess what I'm wearing.
Enilonee	Posted - 2010.12.04 06:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Max Thunderbird Second, I've missed the opportunity to earn a lot of ISK because I trained learning skills instead of BS/Strategic Cruiser/Hulk or whatever. This is true. BUT: You planned for maximizing SP instead of finding balance between SP and ISK. You should know that going into extremes isn't a good idea most of the time. It wasn't/isn't even with learnings in place. So let's see what would happen with learnings not going away: - still no isks for you - MONTHS of time spent to get to the level you'll have through redistribution Would you prefer this? Originally by: Max Thunderbird I do not gain anything from the refunded SP, I will still have the same total SP once they are allocated. Better than no refund but I'm not gaining from the refund. This is entirely untrue. Without refund (or removing learnings for that part) you'd still need MONTHS to train for the skills you'll now be getting.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Yonnoth Assassination Squad	Posted - 2010.12.04 09:46:00 - [30] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 04/12/2010 09:46:44 You think thats bad, I trained my missile skills to max and then CCP nerfed missiles, so I trained hybrids to max and then CCP did something to make them suck. I'm scared to train anything else to a high level now. I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night because of Evemares. Sig --- Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.

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