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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Flesh Slurper
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Posted - 2010.11.27 22:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling No-one in his/her right mind would use +4/+5 implants in PvP and many people who have them and can't/don't want to use jump clones are prevented from doing PvP this way.
I guess I must be insane. I use +4 implants always when I PVP. I figure the isk loss is worth it if I get podded, rather than loosing some training speed. I also have been relatively good at avoiding being podded, and buy my implants from the LP store so they are a lot cheaper.
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Rhes
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.28 00:26:00 -
[32]
If you're not fighting in all +5 implants and T2 rigs you're doing it wrong.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.28 00:58:00 -
[33]
Rigs and implants are a risk-reward thing. Jesus, what is with people? Not only is there a ton of whining about the general removal of learning skills (along with a good portion of smug holier-than-thou doomsday predictions) but there are also a whole bunch of ideas coming in from people who don't seem to understand why learning skills were removed in the first place.
To summarize:
- High Tier: Rational fans of things I like
- Mid Tier: Rational fans of things I dislike
- Low Tier: Irrational fans of things I dislike
- Shut Up You're Embarrassing Me Tier: Irrational fans of things I like
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.11.28 01:03:00 -
[34]
Quote: Rigs and implants are a risk-reward thing. Jesus, what is with people? Not only is there a ton of whining about the general removal of learning skills (along with a good portion of smug holier-than-thou doomsday predictions) but there are also a whole bunch of ideas coming in from people who don't seem to understand why learning skills were removed in the first place.
No one is denying the risk/reward thing...However, training time is (in my opinion, way too) important to many people and unless you're mega-rich, PVP and +5 implants are mutually exclusive.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.28 01:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden No one is denying the risk/reward thing...However, training time is (in my opinion, way too) important to many people and unless you're mega-rich, PVP and +5 implants are mutually exclusive.
Well yeah, but that's.. kind of the point.
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Tom Gerard
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Posted - 2010.11.28 01:15:00 -
[36]
I see what you're saying broke. But what I think the problem is with that is that some people don't want the game to be oversimplified. So what I see is that maybe they should just like work on more ways of adding implants to people's so like maybe every station and we've sold implants even if the implants are slightly like overpriced.
I mean it's like your idea would be really cool and people like pu pu a lot more. But it would make the game played more like world of work raft.
But anyway I think that CCP might end up reading your topic and finding like the good points in it because CCP is really cool about stuff like that expressly when it comes to like the generals forms and will hold your mind magic culture.
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CHAOS100
The Ankou Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.11.28 10:58:00 -
[37]
Make NPC PVP missions with agents in 0.0. Yeah just like lvl 4's, and once you do some you get to cash in for some $$$ LP. Make it fairly profitable.
Example mission: "Roam in X region and kill 5 ships BC class or higher. Must have less than 5 ships involved on the killmail." --------------
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fr0gout
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Posted - 2010.11.28 11:01:00 -
[38]
best way to encourage PvP would be to delete ecm from the game
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Nick Curso
Diabolus Ex Machina
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Posted - 2010.11.28 13:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sol Fallstaff Edited by: Sol Fallstaff on 27/11/2010 15:59:13 With the learning skills now removed which i think is a good idea, how about we now make rigs and implants removeable, I think this would get a lot of carebears to dip their toes into PVP rather than run the same ol missions over and over again and then quit through boredom.
Downsides - the high end rigs and implants will probably drop in price over time.
Upsides - more people will PVP as they wont be that bothered if they lose inexpensive rigs and implants. Markets will be stimulated as more ships and modules are purchased. More players will experience PVP.
Yes I know you can use clones but a 24 hour window to change back is far to long imo and having other clones with a certain pvp setup is just too inflexible. Out of curiosty why were the rigs and implants implemented in such a permanent inflexible manner which overall discourages PVP to some.
Perhaps just stop being a ***got. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
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Posted - 2010.11.28 15:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: CHAOS100 Make NPC PVP missions with agents in 0.0. Yeah just like lvl 4's, and once you do some you get to cash in for some $$$ LP. Make it fairly profitable.
Example mission: "Roam in X region and kill 5 ships BC class or higher. Must have less than 5 ships involved on the killmail."
I think this is closer to a solution that will work. While some folks treat Killmails as some kind of psychological currency, they aren't very useful for purchasing a new ship, ammo, or modules.
Currently the tradeoff is something like "I can PvP and earn very little isk (unless I get really lucky and have a small enough gang that the revenue from selling modules from the kill helps us), or I can PvE / play the markets/ sell GTC or PLEX to get isk."
I suspect the problem is that PvP in itself doesn't appear to have enough direct income. This is a psychological thing (not practical) because it is indeed possible to be a profitable player-combat pilot. But if you somehow change the psychology to make a pilots wallet blink when they score a player kill, people would not see player combat as a waste of isk but instead simply another method of making isk. The portion of people that combat for the sake of combat (or tears) is small compared to the number of people who would combat "for profit."
I admit, though, that despite some musing, I haven't really come up with a reasonable way to implement such a method of direct isk for player combat (and I admit I can't recall if FW attempted this somehow or not. I do know that the bounty system doesn't work for this though).
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 16:33:00 -
[41]
So those people who have spent hundreds of millions on implant sets should not get a field advantage?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 18:26:00 -
[42]
But rigs and implants are already removable, so what is it he's asking for again?
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.28 18:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mag's But rigs and implants are already removable, so what is it he's asking for again?
You do PLAY EvE right?
Sig.Learning skills vote. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 19:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
No-one in his/her right mind would use +4/+5 implants in PvP
I've used +4s continuously since about a week after the LP store was introduced. Most of the guys I fly with do the same.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 19:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/11/2010 21:59:58
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Gates are the reason many people don't want to 'dip their toes' in PvP.
They don't mind being in areas where PvP can happen so much, but gate camps are just too easy to set up and restrict travel to anyone who isn't in a cov ops.
Bizarre asumption, maybe learn to play before you can comment please.
How's that a bizarre assumption?
Everytime i want to enter lowsec or 0.0, being prepared for PvP is less of a factor in what fitting and ship to use than beating gatecamps is. I'd be taking all kinds of crazy expensive ships into lowsec and 0.0 if i didnt have to worry about gatecamps. Instead i just take cheap fast aligning frigates or cov ops which no one is ever going to catch.
Not only do gatecamps keep me from taking ships i'd actually like to use in lowsec and 0.0, but they keep those ships from maybe ending up on killmails. It's bad for everyone.
When did you last actually see a gatecamp in lo-sec that wasn't in Rancer or Tama? Even Ammamake hasn't been camped the last few times I've been through it.
And if the gate is camped, just burn back to the gate, God, it's not hard.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 19:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Originally by: Mag's But rigs and implants are already removable, so what is it he's asking for again?
You do PLAY EvE right?
So you're telling you can't remove them? Do you play Eve?
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.28 19:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Everytime i want to enter lowsec or 0.0, being prepared for PvP is less of a factor in what fitting and ship to use than beating gatecamps is. I'd be taking all kinds of crazy expensive ships into lowsec and 0.0 if i didnt have to worry about gatecamps.
Gatecamps are inherently at a disadvantage. The main reason they work is because they pick off people 1-2 at a time as they jump in. Because the camp is stationary, it's very easy for you to tell how many people there are and what kind of ships (you can usually even make a very accurate guess at the fitting too), so you can plan your own fleet accordingly to counter what they have. Most of the campers will also have GCC (or at least be -10), so you'll have gateguns on your side (this denies them effectiveness with drones at the least) and will take no sec loss from attacking them. They'll also often be sacrificing midslots for sensor boosters.
If you scout the camp first, then your fleet all jumps in at once, chances are you can kill a few of the campers before they get away.
If you're unable/not willing to/don't think you'll have fun getting a fleet together to take on the gatecamp, then you probably won't enjoy lowsec. Even if gatecamps were made nonviable, you'd likely find some other excuse not to enter lowsec (belt camps maybe?). So short of lowsec being changed so that only one player ship at a time was allowed to attack you, I highly doubt that you'll ever make good on your plants to enter lowsec in expensive ships. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Zan Altier
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Posted - 2010.11.28 20:29:00 -
[48]
I'm new to the game and i can tell you, the only thing that will get me into pvp is if they brought out a combat simulator and let me fully insure my ships (i.e. ship parts)
I know that i will always be at a huge disadvantage to older player so i'll be staying in high sec until i have maxed out my offencive and defencive skills.
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dpidcoe
Gallente Orion Transport
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Posted - 2010.11.28 21:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zan Altier I know that i will always be at a huge disadvantage to older player so i'll be staying in high sec until i have maxed out my offencive and defencive skills.
You're not. It's all about picking your fights and has very little to do with skillpoints (assuming you can competently fly the ship you're in). Of the 100's of fights I've been in, I've never won or lost one because I had 10% more damage than the other guy or he had 5% more agility.
I've even made rifter pilots before and gone out to low/null sec killing year+ old players after less then 2 weeks of skill training. It's actually easier with a new character than an older one because people tend underestimate you and aren't as quick to run away.
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Zarda Sulan
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.28 22:17:00 -
[50]
All these poster's here saying you don't need to be a Veteran to pvp- its all LIES! anything under 2 years worth of skills is just cannon fodder for the gatecamps/roaming squads!
I have played this game on and off now for a good number of years now and lost many ships exploring low sec/null sec to veterans who blew me away in secs before I could return through the gate or get away.
They just say its easy in the hopes that you will get lured into a false sense of security or that you can pvp and go there just so they can blow you away and get that ever important killmail for their bloated ego's.
Heck the one time i went out in a drake and got to null sec only for a gate camp to blow me away till i was in my pod- then had the check to say give them 55 mill or they kill me - I was like lol your supposed to do that while I am still in the very baldly damaged drake and not in my pod that's not worth 55 mill. Dumbasses in pvp tbh- it really needs to be looked at and completely revamped. I would do way more pvp if they removed the 24 hour clone time- as one could effectivelly hop into a clone with no implants or cheap combat implants- do a few hours of pvp - then jump back into the clone with the expensive learning implants to carry on training while you log out for work or sleep. That would solve so many issues and really open the door for lots more people to risk pvp. I have even said put a skill in the game that gives - x amount of hours to clone jump skill- like 3 hours per lvl- that means at lvl 5 you only have a 9 hour wait till you can jump back into your skill training clone.(take into account the couple of hours of pvping say 3-5 that means you then only wait 4ish hours to get back into training clone) a lot more practical and would defo do a heck of a lot more pvp that way.
Live by the sword, Die by the sword. Live by the pen, Die by the sword. Live by the nuke , Kill the sword! |
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.28 22:23:00 -
[51]
7 jumps in to a 12-jump lo-sec run
where are the gate gamps?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.28 23:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/11/2010 21:59:58
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Gates are the reason many people don't want to 'dip their toes' in PvP.
They don't mind being in areas where PvP can happen so much, but gate camps are just too easy to set up and restrict travel to anyone who isn't in a cov ops.
Bizarre asumption, maybe learn to play before you can comment please.
How's that a bizarre assumption?
Everytime i want to enter lowsec or 0.0, being prepared for PvP is less of a factor in what fitting and ship to use than beating gatecamps is. I'd be taking all kinds of crazy expensive ships into lowsec and 0.0 if i didnt have to worry about gatecamps. Instead i just take cheap fast aligning frigates or cov ops which no one is ever going to catch.
Not only do gatecamps keep me from taking ships i'd actually like to use in lowsec and 0.0, but they keep those ships from maybe ending up on killmails. It's bad for everyone.
You are vastly overstating the prevalence and effectiveness of gatecamps, I manage just fine by using less populated entry systems and if if need to get thru somewhere like amamake, i use a scout... it's really not difficult unless you are completely without basic common sense. Really, if traders can manage to keep amamake market stocked (and no, they don't all use JFs) you can surely organise getting a cruiser into losec. Once in losec, camps are very very few and far between and most of the time escapable, nothing is without risk ofc.. just accept that
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Kezzle
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Posted - 2010.11.28 23:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
No-one in his/her right mind would use +4/+5 implants in PvP and many people who have them and can't...use jump clones
Given the cost of top-end implants, and the fact that it is eminently feasible to get .8 standings with SoE well before you can afford a full set of 5s and hardwires, "can't" has to be the result of some choices limiting the use of JCs, which strikes me as perverse if you actually want to engage in PvP.
Quote: ...don't want to use jump clones...
Similarly, this seems a perverse mindset. What sort of "don't want" are we talking about, here? OCD inability to relinquish maximum optimised learning speeds for skills that you will get eventually? Some sort of moral objection?
The tools exist, you just need to plan your days of play. Having top-end learning-affecting implants is a luxury in a game where the baseline is supposed to be PvP. These things aren't limiters to PvP, other limitations are far more significant.
It would be better for the economy if they did lose some rigged ships every now and then and learned to PvP than stay in highsec, don't you think?
A lot of people complain about the lack of people in lowsec to do some casual solo/small gang PvP - well here's one reason of why that is the case.
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Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.29 00:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sol Fallstaff Edited by: Sol Fallstaff on 27/11/2010 15:59:13 [...] I think this would get a lot of carebears to dip their toes into PVP rather than run the same ol missions over and over again and then quit through boredom. [...]
And the loss for PVP in general would exactly be where? If they "run the same ol missions over and over again" instead of "dip their toes into PVP" then I'd say good riddance from a PvP point of view when they "quit through boredom". You actually made a good point there on why not to change stuff.
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.29 00:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zarda Sulan hur dur
Looking at your two losses on battleclinc, I'd venture a guess that you'd have lost those drakes even if you had every single skill in the game at level 5.
- - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.29 00:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zarda Sulan *snip*
Confirming 12 year olds play EVE. If at any point you look at a good sized chunk of a game (like PvP, which is pretty much the one uniting force of EVE) and say, "This needs a complete and total do-over", then what you need to do, my friend, is find a new game. -
I RETROLL FOR MAXIMUM DAMAGE. |
omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.11.29 00:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dian'h Might
Originally by: Zarda Sulan hur dur
Looking at your two losses on battleclinc, I'd venture a guess that you'd have lost those drakes even if you had every single skill in the game at level 5.
LOL. First you tell people "Go out and pvp, it doesn't matter if you lose!"
Then you laugh at their losses
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.11.29 01:18:00 -
[58]
One way of encouraging PvP would be to remove attribute-only implants altogether. Remove only the attribute bonuses on sets such as crystal/slave/etc so they retain their ship-capability modifiers.
With this change, the only thing you lose when you're podded is assets, rather than that oh-so-precious SP/hr. Assuming your clone is up to date, of course.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
L0ki Arkad
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Posted - 2010.11.29 03:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 28/11/2010 22:34:09 7 jumps in to a 12-jump lo-sec run
where are the gate gamps?
EDIT: 12 jump run made, no aggro. UNPOSSABLE!
Obviously this is lies. Everyone knows that every gate in lowsec is camped by fleets of 100 pirates in motherships and even thinking about jumping into low sec will make your ship explode.
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Zarda Sulan
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.29 04:22:00 -
[60]
Originally by: William Cooly
Originally by: Zarda Sulan *snip*
Confirming 12 year olds play EVE. If at any point you look at a good sized chunk of a game (like PvP, which is pretty much the one uniting force of EVE) and say, "This needs a complete and total do-over", then what you need to do, my friend, is find a new game.
people like you and the poster above you really make me want to play this game or wonder why so many quit to your elitism. blame youself for the failures of this game ****** Live by the sword, Die by the sword. Live by the pen, Die by the sword. Live by the nuke , Kill the sword! |
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