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Jada Maroo	Posted - 2010.11.29 04:02:00 - [31] Edited by: Jada Maroo on 29/11/2010 04:03:12 People who live in null sec or roam low sec and whine about carebears are just bitter because a significant chunk of players won't willingly waddle into their gate camps to be easily destroyed with little or no effort or skill so that killboard e-peens can be elongated. Fact is, the people who complain about carebears are arguably some of the biggest whiners on this forum, I have noticed.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:06:00 - [32] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 29/11/2010 05:06:25 Basically it boils down to hypocrisy. Those usually using the term "carebear" in a derogatory form are the same ones that avoid risk themselves. They are the ones looking for easy prey and looking to gank PVE fits with their PVP fits and calling it "PVP". When a carebear avoids PVP he's a coward. When an opportunistic predator avoids PVP, well, it's just good prudent sense. Hypocrisy. Plain and simple. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Lesbos Fury	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:13:00 - [33] i have a laptop in my bathroom so I'm just poopin, you know how I be
Jypsie Pytheas search Exodus Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:14:00 - [34] I also find it amusing that someone thinks that someone who does not make ships explode is some sort of non-pvping player. I don't have the numbers, but I am certain enough to say that more ISK is lost over the course of a single day via market competition then the ISK lost by violence in all low sec areas. Similar to what someone earlier said in this thread, anyone, who does anything in this game is making someone else lose money. In the end, that's all PVP in this game really is. Lost ISK.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:24:00 - [35] My opinion of Carebears is not someone who only PVE's, there are a lot of PVE'ers in EVE that come up with effective strategies to get around the risks involved in PVP. My definition is someone who whines for a game mechanic change when there are effective counters in place that may take a little more work but decrease your odds of dying. I also think of people who think they are morally better then those who engage in PVP and look down on another persons gameplay and wants to destroy there gameplay. I think we need more counters to PVP'ers for PVE'ers, but they should be active and require strategy. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Jenny Jihad Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Jypsie I also find it amusing that someone thinks that someone who does not make ships explode is some sort of non-pvping player. I don't have the numbers, but I am certain enough to say that more ISK is lost over the course of a single day via market competition then the ISK lost by violence in all low sec areas. Similar to what someone earlier said in this thread, anyone, who does anything in this game is making someone else lose money. In the end, that's all PVP in this game really is. Lost ISK. Well, killing rats, collecting bounties and loot or mining then selling directly to buy orders isn't PVP because they aren't engaging in anyway. I doubt some of them even know those are player buy orders.
Fried'chickenisha	Posted - 2010.11.29 05:53:00 - [37] Carebear = person who is not stupid enough to ingage in PvP in a PvE fit ship, with a person in a PvP fit ship and his 10 friends.
Misticrevalation Solar Investment Group	Posted - 2010.11.29 06:11:00 - [38] Edited by: Misticrevalation on 29/11/2010 06:12:21 EVE is a sandbox. Some people like to do combat, some people like to do PVE. At the end of the day, I think the one overriding rule of EVE is: Do what you enjoy. If you absolutely love mining 23/7, then who is anyone to try forcing you to do anything different. Also, if you love ganking players 10 v 1, then by all means continue. If you are having fun, does it really matter? ----------------------------------------- SIG Freight Service - Need something moved? We'll do it.
Monte Shill	Posted - 2010.11.29 07:00:00 - [39] Originally by: Fried'chickenisha Carebear = person who is not stupid enough to ingage in PvP in a PvE fit ship, with a person in a PvP fit ship and his 10 friends. Carebear = person afraid of risk that flys into mission spaces looking for a fight with a 300k isk throw away T1 frig and flipping wrecks, on the off chance the mission runner is dumb enough to fire back and they can come back to the mission with their fancy T2 or T3 ship they would never take into lowsec so the killmail looks awesome which if they could get over the praise of their corpmates and relize that no buffer, no point, no web (excludding Paladin/Kronos) = easy mode, like sending a professional sports team against a kids little league team. Of course someone is going to loose, because its so easy when you don't really risk your own stuff. But thats EVE for you since it is allowed, some just don't like it when you point out that zero risk fit them just as much as the carebears they hate and they thump their chest saying they risk it all the time (in easy mode )
jerichot Cutish Brunts	Posted - 2010.11.29 07:57:00 - [40] Using the word carebear as an insult or in a derogatory manner tells a lot about who you are, and i find it even more amusing in a game where 90% of the pvp appear in large group, because people are afraid to loose their ships, the same people who use carebear as an insult.
Listine	Posted - 2010.11.29 08:23:00 - [41] Most all "pvpers" have some sort of pve alt or engage in it to some degree to fund their pvp activities. I consider a "carebear" to be someone who engages almost solely in pve content and has no clue how to fit/fly a ship for pvp. My personal favorites are the ones that pimp out their mission ships and rage easily if they are interrupted in any way, also known as "loot pinatas." In all honestly everyone engages in pvp in one way or another in eve, even if they do not take part in shiptoasting. Miners and missioners may focus all their effort against the environment or NPCs, but as soon as you touch the market or contract system you ARE taking part in pvp. The battle is just over your wallet and assets instead of your ship. Anyone who disagrees has clearly never attempted to put up a buy/sell order in Jita before.
Aerion Va'rr The Priesthood The 0rphanage	Posted - 2010.11.29 08:48:00 - [42] PvP in this game essentially means, Player versus People. Its a sad truth and has been this way for some time, individual skill still wins the battle.. all the skillpoints in the world mean nothing if you have no idea what your doing (Not going off on a solo pvp ended with WTZ rant). That being said... OP I guess I can see your point, but the other side of that coin is, sure alot of the people who engage solely in PvP have other means of income, some buy plex, some farm and sell characters on the bazaar, some rat, some scam, some mission; all facets that everyone else can do. Most active PvPers have their shiny's for station games and whatnot. The difference is.. besides the mathematical probability of winning a fight.. what do you do with your ISK, and how much time are you willing to sink it into funding... well, whatever it is you do here Bob. If you can log in and mine for 10 hours straight with no intention but mining, your a carebear. If you can actually do nothing but run missions for HOURS, your a carebear. If you manipulate the market, and make billions in the process, your just smarter then most people. If you can PvP (anywhere mind you) and actually get loot, then you probably don't have to do any of the above; there is always some idiot in a faction fit pirate battleship that has no idea what he's doing. Call it whatever you want.. my stance is 'screw it, F1'.
Perfection Tau Cuties Only.	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:19:00 - [43] If EVE community suddenly decides not to call carebears carebears I demand a new term. How about Achura-Caldarian?
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:25:00 - [44] Originally by: Jadzia Usoo Personally think CCP should add Certificates for Carebearing.. Basic, Standard, and Elite. Give us Carebears some status i say!! Awesome I would so get that cert just so I could have "Elite Carebear Elite" on public display.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:29:00 - [45] A carebear is a choice, not a state of the universe. The galaxy is supposed to be harshed and based on PvP, that's fine, but you are a carebear if you actively try to avoid PvP and focus on the PvE.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/11/2010 10:35:54 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jenny Jihad You're saying they're PVPers even though they don't PVP. No, he's saying that they PvP, even though they're not PvPers. It might not sound like a huge difference, but it is. You can't do anything in EVE without taking part in the overall player-vs-player competition. I like this argument. It basically means that every mmorpg out there is a PvP game as long as you can undercut people in auction houses. WoW is just as PvP as EVE if you use that argument. I have better gear than you! Well that's competition doesn't it? So PvP! I have a bette rmount than you! Well that's competition doesn't it? So PvP! So every game where peopel compete for something is PvP? Interesting ...
Br41n Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:36:00 - [47] Really eve selling stuff on the market is pvp in this game so the op has a point. a carebear is someone who tries to avoid pvp as much as possible, not someone that doesnt pvp at all ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight? Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:40:00 - [48] Being a carebear or not has to do with expectations of outcomes related to personal survivability, not game mechanics. There are plenty of pvp carebears. They tend to be the ones that hide their names in blobs or use every lame tactic they can to avoid a fun fight. The truly hardcore are limited in number throughout the game. I guarantee that the vast majority of hard talking pvpers are truly carebears in disguise who won't say a word when they stand alone or against the odds. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. Join Reavers
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.29 10:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Br41n Really eve selling stuff on the market is pvp in this game so the op has a point. a carebear is someone who tries to avoid pvp as much as possible, not someone that doesnt pvp at all Well personally I'm not sure that I'd label something that indirectly and not deliberately competes with others "PvP". I think PvP in my opinion more has to do with deliberation and purpose. Are we all RL PvPers because we like to sell our stuff at competing prices? Or the tax we pay is used to pay soldiers who occasionaly shoot people? If we use that definition, everything is PvP so the term becomes kind of meaningless.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.11.29 11:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Jadzia Usoo Personally think CCP should add Certificates for Carebearing.. Basic, Standard, and Elite. Give us Carebears some status i say!! What would you say the neccesary requirements would be to become a elite carebear?
Lump Hammer	Posted - 2010.11.29 12:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Jadzia Usoo Personally think CCP should add Certificates for Carebearing.. Basic, Standard, and Elite. Give us Carebears some status i say!! What an excellent idea! CCP could even add +1 to each learning attribute per level trained!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.29 12:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Jennifer Starling I like this argument. It basically means that every mmorpg out there is a PvP game as long as you can undercut people in auction houses or compete against other people in any possible way. WoW is just as PvP as EVE if you use that argument. Not "just as", no, but it certainly has PvP elements. That should come as no surprise, since it has PvP in the more classical sense of player-vs-play combat as wellà The difference is that in EVE, this kind of PvP is infused in every last activity. The only thing you can do around here that isn't subject to competition is clicking two closely connected buttons: "Request mission" and "Complete mission" (and even the latter is iffy since there are PvP events that could actually deny you that opportunity ù still, if you're in a position to click that button, no-one can compete for your rewards). Personally, I tend to define a "carebear" in the EVE setting as anyone who refuses to see this interconnectedness between players and the inherent PvP nature in everything that automatically follows. Not being aware of it isn't quite enough ù that could just be a matter of not having though it over or never having seen it demonstrated ù but the refusal to accept that this is how the game works and that what they do will and does have an impact on everyone else, which means that the old "I just want to do my thing ù I'm not bothering anyone" line of thinking doesn't work. It's not about the activity, but about the mindset. Industry and trading ù what might seem like immensely carebear things to do ù are among the most vicious PvP arenas the game has to offerà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Killer Gandry Caldari Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2010.11.29 12:57:00 - [53] PvP = Player versus Player. Making this only player versus player in combat with ships just shows how narrowminded some are. Now how about the traders who try to outtrade their opponents and still make a profit. Driving competition to close or full ruin. Isn't that player versus player too? And how about that miningcorporation that warps it's miningfleet into belts and tries to outzap anyone present there to the point that other miners just give up and move to another system to be able to mine. Isn't that player(s) versus player? Fact is that some part of the EVE Community was in a desperate need of a word to show their utter disrespect of other people who aren't into their playstyle. Those who love to blow other people's ships to hell called those who did their best to avoid being blown to hello from there on "Carebear" Offcourse those socalled "carebears" also needed a name for the opposing party and voila the "Ganker" got it's place into the vocabulary. Simply it's all boiled down to one thing. People not accepting other people's gamestyle.
Lillith Starfire	Posted - 2010.11.29 13:02:00 - [54] Quote: In EVE you are free to choose your own destiny. You start out as a character from one of four races that inhabit the EVE universe but apart from slightly different starting skills you are free to take your character in any direction you want. You are not restricted by predefined character classes or professions. You can trade to make a living, conduct mining operations, market your fighting skills as a mercenary, camp the spacelanes for profit as a pirate, conduct espionage and infiltration, focus on research and manufacturing, or perform increasingly profitable missions for NPC (non player controlled, run by the EVE system) agents. What you choose to do day by day is up to you. Nothing to see here, move along.
Killstealing	Posted - 2010.11.29 16:16:00 - [55] words can change meaning over time? Well call the **ing presses, this is new and interesting. Also could you light my got please? Oh, and that rock formation was really **** looking, never seen something like it before.
Perfection Tau Cuties Only.	Posted - 2010.11.29 16:31:00 - [56] Edited by: Perfection Tau on 29/11/2010 16:34:17 Carebear term wouldn't be derogatory if EVE PVE was any better than windows hearts/minesweeper. Not saying PvP process is complicated but it involves metagame and manipulating other players, that's where eve shines. For me carebear is one who saves damsel on a drake and then finds it adventurous to save her on oficer fitted golem 3 years later. Who's only objective to accumulate even more ISK to do exactly same thing. As a more local B) meaning: One who tries to avoid pvp where he damn well shouldn't (PVP corp) P.S. Participating in larger scheme of things with no plan, purpose or intention can't count as PVP.
Doddy Burning Vendetta	Posted - 2010.11.29 16:56:00 - [57] To be honest thats like saying an old granny getting mugged is into knife crime. In anycase a hi sec mission runner in a npc corp flying a non pimp fit is going as far as possible to avoid pvp and is therefore a carebear, the fact the game is designed to never be 100% pvp free is irrelevant as carebearism is a state of mind. An awful lot of carebears farm deep 0.0 though, you are probably safer in a pimp fit marauder in some 0.0 regions than in most mission hubs, thanks to sov, local, intel channels etc.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.29 17:04:00 - [58] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 29/11/2010 17:05:48 Originally by: Doddy To be honest thats like saying an old granny getting mugged is into knife crime. In anycase a hi sec mission runner in a npc corp flying a non pimp fit is going as far as possible to avoid pvp and is therefore a carebear, the fact the game is designed to never be 100% pvp free is irrelevant as carebearism is a state of mind. An awful lot of carebears farm deep 0.0 though, you are probably safer in a pimp fit marauder in some 0.0 regions than in most mission hubs, thanks to sov, local, intel channels etc. It goes both ways. A "pirate" wardeccing industrial corps in hi sec or can-flipping is also going as far as he possibly can to avoid PVP. Ganking a mission or mining ship is just as "carebear" as a missioner blasting NPC's or miner mining belts. They all carry little to no risk. I'll also throw in to the list of carebear activities: 1. Gatecamping 2. Scamming 3. afk-cloaking/stalking vulnerable prey Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.29 17:08:00 - [59] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 29/11/2010 17:08:36 Quote: I like this argument. It basically means that every mmorpg out there is a PvP game as long as you can undercut people in auction houses or compete against other people in any possible way. WoW is just as PvP as EVE if you use that argument. No, its not. WoW has Limited PvP and PvP off servers. Even if you consider that other stuff PvP, (by the way guys I am glad you responded; I think your opinions on non Pew Pew pvp are excellent) EvE is still "PvP on all areas all times". It really does seem to boil down to "someone who's playstyle I do not approve of", as mentioned a couple times already.
Mikaleon Hageken Ammunitions and Development	Posted - 2010.11.29 18:16:00 - [60] Edited by: Mikaleon on 29/11/2010 18:17:20 This is posted in in my bio -------------------------------- I am no "carebear", I am a capitalist PvP'er. (This is redundant, I know) I play agaisnt the market which is filled with other players. I call this "passive PvP" High risk to lose ISK, high rewards. Hell I even have to push back pirate players, what I call "active PvP". Paste this into your bio, if you don't believe that pirating, scamming, "wardeccing" and warfare aren't the only ways to pvp. >I do not pay ransoms, better dead than poor.< --------------------------------

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