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Vainfall
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Posted - 2010.11.29 06:30:00 -
[1]
I'm orbitting at 1.1kM range, the optimal range of my ACs, and they're constantly missing. It took me so long to destroy this NPC Frig it actually regenned shields from 20% to full it took so long to hit again. I'm flying a Rupture with 425m Auto Cannon Is. My skills are really low, I only have 5.5m SP and 4M of that is in learning. Is my optimal range deceiving, do I need to orbit further away, or is just cus of my low skills?
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 06:37:00 -
[2]
You need to orbit farther out. For most types of guns you want to be at about your optimal range, but Minmatar guns are different, and especially autocannons. All autocannons have virtually zero as their optimal range, with huge falloff. You probably have about 10km falloff, right? I'd suggest orbiting at about 1x falloff. You'll do less than 100% of your "on paper" damage per second, but as you can see, you're not doing full damage at optimal range either. As you get further out, your damage drops to nearly zero at 2x falloff. So you might want to experiment with ranges a little less and a little more than 1x falloff.
Other things you could do to improve your ability to hit small targets:
1. Use smaller guns (220 or 180 autocannons).
2. Web your target so it moves slower.
3. Move slower yourself to further reduce angular velocity.
4. Kite the targets, i.e. move in a straight line away from them so they follow in a straight line after you, thus reducing angular velocity.
5. Use a target painter to make the target "bigger".
6. Use a tracking computer or tracking enhancer to boost your guns' tracking speed.
7. Train the skill Motion Prediction to improve your tracking.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.29 06:38:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Vainfall
Is my optimal range deceiving, do I need to orbit further away, or is just cus of my low skills?
Yes, optimum range is deceving because
optimum range is optimum for a STATIONARY target.
Autocannons are usually described as "Living in Falloff"
Their optimum range is so short they have trouble tracking any target that is not large then the turret class.
Fortunately they compensate by having relatively long falloff ranges.
A good rule of thumb is to orbit at your falloff range for such weapons.
Course, training up you gunner support skills will help immensely, both in the short and long run.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Vainfall
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Posted - 2010.11.29 06:58:00 -
[4]
Yeah, thanks. I was working on experimenting with 2-5kM range but didnt notice any difference, and didnt think to go further. I posted cus I remember hearing something about ACs being wacky, and hey, I remembered well! I just insta fragged 9 frigs on a mission in a single volley at 11KM out.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:53:00 -
[5]
I'm guessing the main problem you are having is with angular velocity. when you orbit you create a high angular velocity, and when you insta fragged a bunch at 11km or so they were probably flying right at you creating a low angular velocity.
check out the tracking guide http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf it used to be on the eve website, but when they moved to the wiki they seemingly got rid of it.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
Ctrl Alt Elites
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:53:00 -
[6]
Another problem is you're using the biggest guns of that type available, which while they have a better damage modifier, they have the worst tracking. At low skills levels, that's gonna cost you.
If you're running level 2 missions, use Dual 180s. You'll be up against 90% frigates still, so you want tracking over higher damage modifier and low tracking.
Also, the Rupture has a large enough Drone Bay for a flight of light drones with a spare. Certainly use them against smaller targets as well. Warriors or Hobgoblins, mostly, depending on what faction you're up against.
A tracking computer or two in your mids, or a tracking enhancer in your low wouldn't hurt either. Target Painter can help, but not really your best bet for using guns. They're better suited for missiles.
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Stgofi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:05:00 -
[7]
If I remember right, the 425mm AC has about the same tracking as the 250mm artillery cannons.
With such large guns, you're going to have to either increase your guns' tracking speed, slow down the tracking by orbiting further out, or just swap your guns for something with higher tracking.
Slowing down the target ship doesn't hurt either.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:31:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 30/11/2010 06:33:23
Originally by: Stgofi
If I remember right, the 425mm AC has about the same tracking as the 250mm artillery cannons.
With such large guns, you're going to have to either increase your guns' tracking speed, slow down the tracking by orbiting further out, or just swap your guns for something with higher tracking.
Slowing down the target ship doesn't hurt either.
425mm 0.1056 rad/s
250mm 0.0820 rad/s
Funny, medium ACs track faster than small arties!
Anyway most has been said already:
- keep a distance of at least 5 km (pref a little more)
- fit tracking enhancers (increases both range and tracking)
- train the Motion Prediction skill
- use target painters or webbers
- use drones
I use 425mms on every medium Matar hull I fly, just shoot the firgates first when they're still at some distance (10+ km). At least you have drones, I wonder how a webbed Maller pilot must feel?
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Khalida Nehkerher
Quantum Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:43:00 -
[9]
In addition to all the above, annother reason your missing alot is 425's have a hard time hitting a frig even if both are stationary.
425's are Medium guns thus they do best against medium targets... look at it like trying to swat a fly with a baseball bat. It does better hitting the wall an punching a hole in it than hurting the fly, so switch to a flyswatter.
Dual 180's can track better so they'll follow a frig easier, but light drones, or frig guns hit frigs best.
< Under Construction > |
Vainfall
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:22:00 -
[10]
Thanks for all the information ladies, I appreciate it. I definitely was doing a lot better. I used to have Dual 180s but the first T2 mission I ran was chock-full of cruisers and nasty ****, my friend and I were having a hard time just taking out one vessel and than warping out to come back and try another one. After that it was all frigates and I just never went back. We're running T3s now though, so I think I'll keep my 425MM's for now.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Khalida Nehkerher
In addition to all the above, annother reason your missing alot is 425's have a hard time hitting a frig even if both are stationary.
425's are Medium guns thus they do best against medium targets... look at it like trying to swat a fly with a baseball bat. It does better hitting the wall an punching a hole in it than hurting the fly, so switch to a flyswatter.
Dual 180's can track better so they'll follow a frig easier, but light drones, or frig guns hit frigs best.
that is pretty much false.
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Avo Daith
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Khalida Nehkerher
In addition to all the above, annother reason your missing alot is 425's have a hard time hitting a frig even if both are stationary.
425's are Medium guns thus they do best against medium targets... look at it like trying to swat a fly with a baseball bat. It does better hitting the wall an punching a hole in it than hurting the fly, so switch to a flyswatter.
Dual 180's can track better so they'll follow a frig easier, but light drones, or frig guns hit frigs best.
To clarify, emphasised the bit that was wrong.
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Funesta
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Posted - 2010.11.30 19:30:00 -
[13]
Stasis webifier made a huge difference to me when shooting small, fast things. It slows them down so that you can track them more easily.
Also, consider using your drones for shooting down small fast things that orbit you, and artillery for shooting big things that are far away (or little things far away that are coming straight toward you). Note that there are a lot of support skills that can improve your drones, too.
You might just have jumped into a ship that's too big for you at the moment - the support skills make a huge difference. The bigger ships can be a liability until you get your support skills in order - you might want to try a destroyer for a little bit while you train some core competencies up. Core fitting, core targeting, core capacitor were very helpful especially. You can also tank more damage from small ships if you get the armor tanking - basic certificate. Different ships might prefer shield tanking.
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Khalida Nehkerher
Quantum Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.11.30 20:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Avo Daith
Originally by: Khalida Nehkerher
In addition to all the above, annother reason your missing alot is 425's have a hard time hitting a frig even if both are stationary.
425's are Medium guns thus they do best against medium targets... look at it like trying to swat a fly with a baseball bat. It does better hitting the wall an punching a hole in it than hurting the fly, so switch to a flyswatter.
Dual 180's can track better so they'll follow a frig easier, but light drones, or frig guns hit frigs best.
To clarify, emphasised the bit that was wrong.
 We it's not my intent to provide miss-information, granted I didn't have the knowledge base to math out the square root of the angle to the..
My point which I don't feel is wrong is Cruiser size medium guns have a harder time tracking smaller Frigates. Larger the gun size in group slower the tracking.
The 'even if stationary' may have been a poor way to point out signature radius to tracking computations.. as when not moving it wouldn't need to track over it's 0.1056 rad/sec
Thank you for clarifying though, rather than the blanket U wrong as above.
< Under Construction > |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 20:38:00 -
[15]
I don't see any need to take dual180s either, I did plenty L2/L3 missions in a Hurricane and Stabber with 425s.
Just take care that:
1. you keep enough distance
2. shoot the frigates first
3. move away from them to keep transversal low if they're close
The only annoying thing that can happen is a flight of webbers getting very close. In that case you really need drones to get rid of them. But even at 5-7 km you can often destroy them if you move way (keep at .. km) and have fit a Tracking Enhancer.
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Flesh Slurper
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Posted - 2010.11.30 21:36:00 -
[16]
Shoot frigs first when they start to aggro and are at the edge of your falloff. They will be moving straight to you, have little traversal, and a large sig radius from using their MWDs. You should be able to easily pop most of them like this.
Once they get close and orbit you the large guns will not hit them. Use light drones to kill them while you use the guns on larger ships.
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