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Missile dammage vs Turret dammage

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lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.01.14 13:23:00 - [1] Has anyone ever worked out how the DOT of say a torpedo launching Seige launcher compares to say a Medapulse (using crystals for an optimal of 40 km) and a 1400mm artilery (dunno what ammo..) on a static target with no resistences at 30 km? I'd do it but I dont know how to work out the turret dammage. Calculations should prob be done with Missile launcher Opp lvl5 and torpedos lvl5 for the launcher, and all relevent gunnery skills at lvl4 to try and equate the training times a bit..
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.01.14 13:35:00 - [2] Been done yes, and grahped even in a recent thread. No surprise that torps came out on top at med/long range. But of course, they should, since it's max 6 launchers and missiles do have certain drawbacks. But let's not get in another turret v missiles balance debate plz. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.01.14 13:50:00 - [3] Edited by: j0sephine on 14/01/2005 13:54:04 "Has anyone ever worked out how the DOT of say a torpedo launching Seige launcher compares to say a Medapulse (using crystals for an optimal of 40 km) and a 1400mm artilery (dunno what ammo..) on a static target with no resistences at 30 km?" Kinda difficult to compare since the DoT from missile launcher changes over time, i.e. starts with a delay and slowly climbs towards the theoretical maximum as the fight goes... while turret DoT is pretty much constant. The end damage comes out kinda like: 30.13 for siege launcher with torpedoes, 21.30 for pulse laser with infrared lens. This is with all skills maxed and no ship bonus, no resistances on target. If the fight actually lasts long enough for the missile damage to get near that maximum is another story. ;s (edit: for what's worth, damage with ultraviolet lens: 27.38, with multifreq: 36.51)
Raven Dru	Posted - 2005.01.14 14:01:00 - [4] While were talking about missiles, which is more effective at say 20-30km torps or cruise? I know cruise do a lot less damage but they also get to the target quicker.
Agenor Deteis	Posted - 2005.01.14 17:56:00 - [5] simple...if target can outrun torp, use cruise, if not, stay with torps. Missiles are only closerange weapons, exept your target is webbed and scrambled, then u allways go for max dmg! => torp. _________________________________________________
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.01.15 00:38:00 - [6] Imhotep Khem chimes in, 'lets not forget the doppler effect on missile DOT.' ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Imhotep Khem chimes in, 'lets not forget the doppler effect on missile DOT.' You mean then you see 20 torps incoming, you have a "red shift" in your vision and all sreen goes red?
Farjung	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:51:00 - [8] Edited by: Farjung on 15/01/2005 10:49:36 Originally by: Nomen Nescio Originally by: Imhotep Khem Imhotep Khem chimes in, 'lets not forget the doppler effect on missile DOT.' You mean then you see 20 torps incoming, you have a "red shift" in your vision and all sreen goes red? Think he means that the time between volleys impacting on the target will vary depending on the relative velocity of the ship that's firing and the target. Hypothetical (just to illustrate the doppler effect in this instance, obviously the target would try and warp out and there are lots of other assumptions that don't hold): Torp spamming Raven starts 48.75km from stationary target, approaches target at 487.5 m/s (hypothetical remember :D). It'll take 100 seconds to reach the target. Has Caldari BS 3 so torps are flying at 975m/s. Hypothetical RoF of 15 seconds. The first volley will hit after: 48.75/0.975 = 50 seconds from time 0 The Raven will have moved 15 * 0.4875 = 7.3125 km closer when it fires the second volley, so the second volley's torps will have less distance to travel. It will impact after 15 + (48.75 - 7.3125)/0.975 = 57.5 seconds from time 0 Third volley will impact at 30 + (48.75 - 2 * 7.3125)/0.975 = 65 seconds Fourth will hit at 72.5, fifth at 80, etc. So despite a RoF of 15 seconds, in this hypothetical situation once the volleys impact, each subsequent volley lands after 7.5 seconds, because of the Raven's velocity towards the target. Conversely, if the Raven was moving away at the same speed, the interval between volleys impacting would be 22.5 seconds. Think that's about right, anyway. Taking it to the hypothetical extreme, if you could match your torps' velocity over their two minutes of flight time you could have a situation where several volleys were landing at the same instant, causing a massive spike in DoT that would break any tank for that instant, before reverting back to 0 :D Note: I'm not a missile user, and everything above is based on my expectations rather than fact, so if it's wrong I apologise :[ Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2005.01.15 03:27:00 - [9] Re: doppler effect, one of the prettiest things I've ever seen was a storyline lvl4 mission with two Merc Overlords or whatever they are called. I start releasing volleys of Juggernauts at one of them, but due to his approach speed and the current missile tracking mechanism the torpedoes start by flying in the wrong direction, then kind of hovers. So when the merc battleship finally arrives some five or six volleys (i started at 60+km range) of torpedoes have assembled at the same spot and collide with the BS at the same time. How is it the Unreal Tournament players say - instagib?
Rivek	Posted - 2005.01.15 05:08:00 - [10] Look at the spreadsheet linked in the thread found in my sig. I compare raven with siege (torp/cruise) vs some of the other bs with their respective weapons, but make no calculations regarding time to target. ---------------------------------------------- BS Weapon Comparison TunDraGon.com
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.15 09:11:00 - [11] While at longer ranges the missiles take a while to damage their target resulting in a delay that the first torpedo hits, it must be realized that missiles will do the maximum damage at long range. Comparable damage at 100 km as a blaster at 5. While also being able to hit at 5. Its like a megapulse that doesn't use any cap or tracking, can switch to FOFs for less damage while jammed, doesn't need to use different range crystals, can choose damage type, and hits even further than a megapulse, the only disadvantage over a megapulse is the ~1 second/km delay, which as stated is more than made up for by the considerable damage advantage missiles have at long range over turrets. They require much less skillpoints, and they're easy to use. They'll always hit unless the guy fits a smartbomb (which nobody does because its really a stupid module only used in very specialized setups, and never in empire). Defenders aren't a factor anymore since it takes two defenders to destroy a torpedo. Think about that. Now think about what happens when the absolutely crazy HP increase happens. The damage delay will become irrelevant.
Synthemesc	Posted - 2005.01.15 11:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko How is it the Unreal Tournament players say - instagib? MMMMM-MONSTER KILL! But yeah, that happens to me all the time with interceptors. Let a salvo go and they immediately start going the opposite direction of the target.
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2005.01.15 12:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 15/01/2005 12:44:10 The speed of missiles is a huge drawback, even in small fights it takes a long time to get the missiles to the target, while missiles do predictable damage at any range the speed of them and their long delay before dealing damage is a drawback that I feel is understated. Missiles are far from gimped, but they do have major issues. The biggest problem with missiles is that while they are too slow for alot of situations at the same time they are too fast. Torpedoes and cruise missiles really should not be able to hit frigates as well as they do. I know it has been tried in the past but some kind of agility needs to be appplied to missiles so their speed can be increased to cover medium to long range (at least for cruise) while not WTFPWNing frigs. ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Thanit	Posted - 2005.01.15 13:05:00 - [14] I totally love it when you use a Raven with MWD and have 4-5 volleys in the air travelling at about the same speed as you when you arrive at target... instagib indeed. Raven can really pwn that way tbh, start at med range, approac using mwd + cap charges while firing torps and scramble, web, hit, dead.

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