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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
275
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Posted - 2012.08.11 18:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
For someone who's never trained for mining & starts now is it really worth it if they never plan on more then solo AFK mining to train a MACK? The things cost 200million more & thus are still tear bringers targets. The Exumer bonus is 1% per level For what I am doing it just does not look worth it to train for a full month TBH. If you plan on making it a career sure the percentage points over months will add up but as a side hobbby for a few extra ISKies while reading Evenews24 I can't justiy training for the MACKINAW =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2012.08.11 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
And? Pick the ship you want and use it. Working as intended. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
151
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Posted - 2012.08.11 20:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:And? Pick the ship you want and use it. Working as intended. But someone else hasn't min/maxed all the possible fittings and put them up on a site. Oh God, I can't think for myself, what do I do? Tell me. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Xero Rahl
Elite Shadow Society ESS Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.08.11 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Something like this should bring into question one or all of the following; - Where and how often does your corp go into mining ops? - Are you able to avoid griefers/gankers? - How much more time are you willing to spend to make more money in the long run? - Are you also training for other ships for things like missions or PvP?
There are other things to train for to get a more efficient yield now before you have to step foot into an Exhumer, T2 strips or crystals for example may offer a quicker way to get a better yield before having to spend the solid month of training to Exhumer V before it becomes a noticable difference.
It's been a long time since I've mined in anything other than so I can't give you any real feedback as to yield differences or the time it takes to fill an ore hold. So I appologize for not being able to give you any concrete evidence for or against trying to train it up, but I'm very happy with how they've evolved the Exhumers as a class and can say that it's easy to make 10-20 million an hour on even the most mediocre of ores. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
143
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Posted - 2012.08.11 20:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. if you dont think 5% is a big improvement, take a look at the price of 5% implants some time. 2. you get 7,500 more ore bay, almost a hulks worth of ore bay 3. you get WAY more EHP, better resists and more slots for tank |
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N
18
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Posted - 2012.08.12 01:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
They can be worth it if you make the most out of them with upgrades and the sort, but if you don't like the Mackinaw and aren't interested in using it or skilling up for a high level in Exhumers, the Retriever will work perfectly well. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.08.12 03:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Retriever is now a great low-skill mining platform for both solo and gang work in hisec. Due to limited tanking ability I wouldn't use it below .5 systems, but it can tank most belt rats just fine. Don't bother rigging it, and you can throw a shield of some kind in the mid (or a roid scanner if you want to avoid wasting cycles on roids close to popping). I'd use a Ret rather than a Mack in some scenarios: during Hulkageddon, for instance, or when I'm prowling around for new "home" systems to mine in and want to get a feel for the belts. I can put a Ret in lots of target mining systems without investing a lot of ISK.
A Mackinaw is now a hisec pimpmobile. You get a bigger ore bay and more mids than you get on a Retriever, and a bigger tank, but I still wouldn't take this boat out into lowsec or nullsec without escort. (The Skiff is the only way to mine out of Empire now unless you're in friendly space or have a lot of armed escort.) But like the Hulk before the patch, it's expensive. You have to figure whether the moderate yield increase and bigger ore bay offset the 200M+ ISK cost (about 10x that of a Retriever). If you're outfitting a mining corp, it may make more sense to just use Retrievers. If you're flying solo, a Mack might make sense, but that's a lot of up-front ISK.
I'm becoming concerned about the Mack being overpowered, in fact. It's a great platform for AFK mining in hisec, especially with ice. In fact, it's almost as if CCP designed it to appeal to AFK players, given the ginormous ore bay. I love the vast ore bay myself -- it finally means that I can turn my hauler alt into a mining alt -- but it's going to ramp up mining like crazy, at least for awhile. Maybe that's the point: maybe CCP felt that mineral prices were getting too high, and wanted a stealthy way to bring mineral prices back down.
Speculators who bought up barges when they were cheap (Procurer, Retriever) are going to make out like bandits for awhile until the miners get their fleets rebuilt. It'll be interesting to see what use cases the Skiff ends up filling -- that tiny nugget with a battleship tank has some interesting uses beyond running lasers on rocks.
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Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
439
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Posted - 2012.08.12 08:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sigras wrote:1. if you dont think 5% is a big improvement, take a look at the price of 5% implants some time. 2. you get 7,500 more ore bay, almost a hulks worth of ore bay 3. you get WAY more EHP, better resists and more slots for tank
this.
this is what you get for your isk, and it's worth every single isk you pay. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Celeste Benal
TreadStone Standard Tribal Band
32
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Posted - 2012.08.12 09:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Confirming I've got a stack of retrievers in hisec that I bought for 3-4M ea some time ago. So happy.
Now... do I sell for huge profit, or try to invent for even more profit but with more risk? Decisions, decisions.
Or just mine the crap out of pyro for a few days and call it good... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1764
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Posted - 2012.08.12 09:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Celeste Benal wrote:Or just mine the crap out of pyro for a few days and call it good...
Scordite, not Pyro. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
192
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Posted - 2012.08.12 11:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have to admit, CCP's initiative in stamping out Bots is, very simple, intriguing, completely unique, creative and intelligent.
The most recent patch, im seeing improvements everywhere, some really good Game maker improvements, no more market search clutter is my personal favorite.
Their simple little upgrade to mining ships hopefully will allow our newbie numbers to grow, now all they have to do is hit the advertisements on the internet and allow some of those rage quitters to come back and start fresh without any one ever knowing their past. |
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.08.12 16:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
5% extra yield pllus an extra low slot for a 3rd mining upgrade, as well as far more ore bay space.
Think before you whine next time. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.12 17:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
it's really just the expense of them and the risk of being a gank target because of that. if you plan on getting the best out of the retriever then you'll want barges and astrogeology at V and the Mackinaw is only a few hours beyond those prerequisites. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
275
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Celeste Benal wrote:Or just mine the crap out of pyro for a few days and call it good... Scordite, not Pyro.
Shhhhhhhhh!!! Don't let that Cat out of thebag else every1 will be cherry picking AFK like I do =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
276
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:it's really just the expense of them and the risk of being a gank target because of that. if you plan on getting the best out of the retriever then you'll want barges and astrogeology at V and the Mackinaw is only a few hours beyond those prerequisites.
Since the retrievers are not made from moon goo I sort of figure that goons will never put out a bounty on them like they do for hulks & Mackinaws during Hulkageddon.. Too bad the retrievers with thenew material costs are 20 million back when they were worth 4-9 million ganking them just wasn't worth the ISK still how much is it really now that it only takes 3-4 ore loads instead of 1-2 to pay for the the gank loss ( versus 30-40 with a Mackinaw) =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:it's really just the expense of them and the risk of being a gank target because of that. if you plan on getting the best out of the retriever then you'll want barges and astrogeology at V and the Mackinaw is only a few hours beyond those prerequisites. Since the retrievers are not made from moon goo I sort of figure that goons will never put out a bounty on them like they do for hulks & Mackinaws during Hulkageddon.. Too bad the retrievers with thenew material costs are 20 million back when they were worth 4-9 million ganking them just wasn't worth the ISK still how much is it really now that it only takes 3-4 ore loads instead of 1-2 to pay for the the gank loss ( versus 30-40 with a Mackinaw)
Goons did have bounties on the T1 barges during Hulkageddon, and I've been ganked in a Retriever before. However, they were very easy to pop with dessies so people did it for fun even after the junior league payouts ended.
I pay for my base ship in two hours of mining now and it can easily tank a destroyer, maybe even two of them. I've only had one chap bounce off me so far. I'm sure a solid cruiser or battlecruiser fit could take me downtown but this is a meh to me as they are so very cheap. Yeah well does your corp get free bacon? |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
14
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Posted - 2012.08.12 22:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
from my point of view keep training up, even though atm it seems pointless you will find those skills useful if your around long enough I can fly any ore ship but choose the procurer its now a great platform for solo miner and retriever if you really need lots of ore or hulk if your fleeting but in one haul you can make over 2+million mining prox but if your starting out go procurer if you lose it it won't be a tear jerker. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
37
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Posted - 2012.08.12 23:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
So why should i train all the way to a Golem, a Drake works just as well right? |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
15
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Posted - 2012.08.13 00:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sure, if you like the Drake its a great ship, the Golem is pure awesomeness and I am training for that very ship even though I can fly tengu, nighthawk, and even Amarr BS, more options is better better |
Rozpoo
United Earth Directorate The Unforgiven Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Julien Brellier wrote:5% extra yield pllus an extra low slot for a 3rd mining upgrade, as well as far more ore bay space.
Think before you whine next time.
I don't know about your ships, but my retriever has 3 low slots and can fit 3 Ice harvesters, just like my Mackinaw can. |
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
226
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
The two ships share the same T1 /T2 relationship that most other things in the game. The T1 is cheap, easy to skill into and does its job somewhat decently. The T2 requires a much greater skill investment, is MUCH more expensive. While it is noticeably better, it is not double the T1's effectiveness.
It depends on what your focus is. Do you spend or intend to spend lots of your time mining? Spend the extra effort and money to get the T2 version.
Are you curious about mining but don't want to invest too much in the chance you don't like it? Or only do it from time to time? Stick with the T1 version. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Gumby Ambraelle
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company
34
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Posted - 2012.08.13 18:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Corp mate and I are ice mining... he in a mackinaw, I in a retriever....
I takes me longer to fill up my 27,500 m3 hold than he takes to fill up hi 35,000 m3 hold each icecle is 1,000m3
over the course of a couple of hours mining it adds up....
over a month he has almost paid for the diffrence, just mining a couple of hours a week
If you are going to mine for a long time then go ahead and train for the mackinaw... it will be worth it |
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