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Free remap and remap timer.

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Terari	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:26:00 - [1] Edited by: Terari on 15/12/2010 17:26:39 My char has not actually gotten the remap yet, because he was one of those which were bugged. However, I am curious about this issue and maybe someone who got the remap can help me on this issue: I had a remap coming up on the 30th december on my character. Will using the new remap we get from this expansion reset the old remap timer? Will I have to wait another year to do a remap if I use the free one, or can I use one again on the 30th? Its kinda critical to how I am going to spend my attribute points as well as the remap.
Isorath	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:13:00 - [2] I'd like to know this also... my plans change quite alot if I get to remap now and then again when my current timer expires.
Judicator Saturnius Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:39:00 - [3] Edited by: Judicator Saturnius on 15/12/2010 23:42:14 I'm in a similar situation, with the only exception that I've got the "free" remap already. My remap was supposed to be available on the 7-th of January (and I was going to use it in late March), but I got it right now. I think I won't have my regular one available any more. And since I was only going to use it in March anyway, it happened to be completely pointless for me now. However, I figured out how to get something of it. I decided to postpone training some skills for a year, remap in a few days for Intelligence and Memory and train Cybernetics V to get +5 implants sooner. This way I will at least partially compensate for the reduced training speed... P.S. One may notice that I should have originally used reimbursed SP to get Cybernetics V. I didn't do that because according to original remapping plans I would have to get a full set of +5 implants and I hadn't enough ISK and LP for that. Now (having some skill training postponed) I will only have to get three implants.
Kargyraa	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:48:00 - [4] Unforntally this remap is just given using the current remap system. In order to be able to use this free remap now and your scheduled remap in say 10-20 days they would have had to create a whole new system to award this one bonus remap (which seems to be not worth it programing wise). The other issue is, ok so everyone who was scheduled for their next remap in december, only got a free 10-15 day extension which doesn't seem to be as much as those who got say a 60 day extension. Sure some seem to get a better bonus, but in the end no matter how long it would have been until the next remap, you will have to wait a year from when you use it. Most training plans are year long (or more) to take full advantage of remaps will be slightly altered by this. In this light I'd like to think that a good number of characters with upcomming remaps are either already expecting to remap and change their skill focus, or just keep on with the same plan until its time to switch for a year. The simple possible solution I see is give everyone who is scheduled for a remap in the next 30 days 2 remaps (instead of one). One for now and one for their soon to be up remap. But then you open the issue, what about the characters just a few days over the deadline, why would the peole having to wait 32 days not get the same advantage of 30 days.
Phoenix Torp Caldari King's Finanace Corp	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:56:00 - [5] In my case the original remap was at March, 12. I also suppose that will be a normal remap. So we remap and will have available another neural remap at... December,16 2011. Maybe I'm wrong but I suppose will be this way. However, there's an issue more important for me: how do you know the good attributes for the remap? I launch Evemon and the main window of my char says that I've got 28/30/17/22/22. I open the plan (the next plan with the reamining skills still to train of this remap added, in fact), and when I choose "Optimize attributes" and "Attributes that would be best for the first year of this plan" it gives to me as new attributes 20/14/5/10/10. So Evemon is bugged 'cause doesn't count the new attributes, even being in the main Evemon window. How do you do it? ------ Skills
Kargyraa	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:00:00 - [6] Depends on how complicated your skill plan is. Since no formulas changed only the base attributes depending on how evemon works it should still work just fine. But until they actually remove learning skills from evemon there may be issues in how evemon reads/stores your stats. Simple skill plans focus on a single primary and secondary attribute. Max your primary out and put all remaining points in the secondary. If your skill plan isn't simple enough to focus for most of the year on skills that fall into your primary and secondary attribute (with putting bonus points in skills that don't fall into that catagory), then over all you will be gaining points slower than someone who optimizes their skill plan that way.
Phoenix Torp Caldari King's Finanace Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:26:00 - [7] The problem is that the plan have Per/Will and Int/Mem skills, so no easy to distribute. And I study Computer Engineering, and know that numbers can be really ****ers, that's the reason why I want to see the numbers on Evemon. Will wait for a new version, or for a fix of that feature. However I don't have rush to do it now or two weeks after... ------ Skills
Isorath	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:43:00 - [8] Well that sucks... I would think that a true free remap would add one "remap credit" to our character sheet, regardless of when we get our next one... The remaps should stack for us just the same as they did for people that had one available and have two now. My next scheduled remap is in April, and getting a free remap should mean that I can remap now and remap again in April. On a similar note the remaps should also stack per year, so if someone remapped to whatever attributes, then doesn't remap for 2 years, they should have 2 "remap credits" available. My two cents..
Scramilton Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.12.16 01:08:00 - [9] It would only make sense that the 1 free remap would not affect the normal yearly remap. Some people even have 2 or 3 remaps, meaning that they can use them whenever. I have a remap coming in May, so I would expect the extra remap to have no effect on this date.
Gryganne Gallente Rockhound Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:24:00 - [10] We need a dev to explain this mechanic. There are questions such as. 1. If I get a free remap now and my remap timer ends on, say, Jan. 1st, does that mean I will have 2 remaps available on Jan. 1st if I don't use the free one given me today? 2. When I use the "free" remap before my standard remap timer is up, is my standard remap timer reset to one year from the date I used the free remap? 3. Essentially, how does the free remap interact with the standard remap system? What do we need to know here?
Hooligan Tool Red Federation	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:31:00 - [11] Sorry folks. The remap timer is based on the last remap you use. Remaps do not accumulate. Just like in a real world job, if you get one week of vacation per year and you do not use it, you lose it. You can remap now. Or you can wait until the date that you had planned on before the new remap was given to you. CCP is giving you the choice with the new remap, but the remap system still works the same as it always did. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Hooligan Tool Red Federation	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Phoenix Torp The problem is that the plan have Per/Will and Int/Mem skills, so no easy to distribute. And I study Computer Engineering, and know that numbers can be really ****ers, that's the reason why I want to see the numbers on Evemon. Will wait for a new version, or for a fix of that feature. However I don't have rush to do it now or two weeks after... My Skill training rate spreadsheet might help you out until EVEMon gets updated. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Scramilton Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Hooligan Tool Sorry folks. The remap timer is based on the last remap you use. Remaps do not accumulate. Just like in a real world job, if you get one week of vacation per year and you do not use it, you lose it. You can remap now. Or you can wait until the date that you had planned on before the new remap was given to you. CCP is giving you the choice with the new remap, but the remap system still works the same as it always did. Yeah...that's what I've been reading. I hope that changes, but I guess it won't. Characters that already had 1 remap and received the free one now have 2, and they don't have to wait a year after using the first of the 2. The people that are especially unfortunate are those with a remap date within the next couple days. I'll stop posting here, as there are a few other larger threads on this topic.
Gryganne Gallente Rockhound Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Hooligan Tool You can remap now. Or you can wait until the date that you had planned on before the new remap was given to you. CCP is giving you the choice with the new remap, but the remap system still works the same as it always did. I dunno, what you're describing would just be reset of everyone's remap timer. If that's what CCP did, they would probably just say so. And the bit about "use it or lose it just like a real job" is, of course, obviously false because CCP allows players to accumulate multiple remaps. If what you're suggesting were true, then there would be no such thing as a "free" remap, just instances where they essentially moved the date of your remap to the day of the patch. All of what you said may well be right, but the way you put it doesn't make any sense and dev confirmation would still be helpful.
Monte Shill	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Hooligan Tool Sorry folks. The remap timer is based on the last remap you use. Remaps do not accumulate. Just like in a real world job, if you get one week of vacation per year and you do not use it, you lose it. You can remap now. Or you can wait until the date that you had planned on before the new remap was given to you. CCP is giving you the choice with the new remap, but the remap system still works the same as it always did. The odd thing is, when your remaps = null (during the 1 year timer) it gets replaced resetting your timer. When you remaps = 1 or 2, it adds on top. And this very same character I am posting with was going to be deleted who has never trained a skill has three remaps available (And I have three random market alts with 3x remaps ). So, unlike the real world where you can have a cap on your vacation time (2 remaps was the highest ever possible until now) and need to use it before you loose it, I had gained an extra week's worth of vacation for not using them . I wonder how much a starter alt with 3x remaps and with (near ) perfect learning is worth (maybe not that much, but the third remap might worth something). CCP might relize they made mistake and cap it at 2 max taking that third one back, but we won't know till the suprise annoucements they pull. And I wanted the buyable PLEX remaps over the removal of learning skills, because it seemed that at minimum 3 remaps was perfect for your basic Int/Mem (core ship skills such as engineering or mechanic ), basic Percep/Will (any ship type plus gun/missile/navigation), and the combo breaker (Drones/Commandship/Trade). Now I got that extra remap but the long grind of retraining from scratch is getting tiresome by the third main-alt
Hooligan Tool Red Federation	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:20:00 - [16] Edited by: Hooligan Tool on 16/12/2010 05:25:37 Quote: I dunno, what you're describing would just be reset of everyone's remap timer. If that's what CCP did, they would probably just say so. And the bit about "use it or lose it just like a real job" is, of course, obviously false because CCP allows players to accumulate multiple remaps. Quote: The odd thing is, when your remaps = null (during the 1 year timer) it gets replaced resetting your timer. When you remaps = 1 or 2, it adds on top. And this very same character I am posting with was going to be deleted who has never trained a skill has three remaps available (And I have three random market alts with 3x remaps ). So, unlike the real world where you can have a cap on your vacation time (2 remaps was the highest ever possible until now) and need to use it before you loose it, I had gained an extra week's worth of vacation for not using them . This was a special case with CCP giving another chance to remap. Remaps do not accumulate during the normal operation of the remap system. Just like in the real world job, you do not accumulate another week of vacation. Did I really have to spell that out? Or are you both trolling? ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Scramilton Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Scramilton on 16/12/2010 05:49:48 Quote: Did I really have to spell that out? Or are you both trolling? We're aware of how it normally works, but this is a special occasion and should be treated as such if they want to equally distribute a free remap to everyone. I don't feel entitled, but those currently with 0 remaps available until 'x' date are getting the shaft compared to those with 1 or more already.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2010.12.16 06:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Estel Arador on 16/12/2010 06:51:50 Originally by: Hooligan Tool Just like in the real world job, you do not accumulate another week of vacation. I live in the real world, get 5.5 weeks of vacation of year, and they do accumulate. (Though any unspent vacation days are lost 5 years after getting them.) So can you use some other analogy?
Terari	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:44:00 - [19] Edited by: Terari on 16/12/2010 12:46:05 Topic also discussed here. Topic in general discussion
Hooligan Tool Red Federation	Posted - 2010.12.17 00:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Estel Arador I live in the real world, get 5.5 weeks of vacation of year, and they do accumulate. (Though any unspent vacation days are lost 5 years after getting them.) So can you use some other analogy? Holy crap! You get 5.5 weeks of vacation per year, and if you don't use that 5.5 weeks at all, the next year you would have 11 weeks of vacation? And the year after that you would have 16.5 weeks of vacation? I want your job!! Sarcasm aside, you know what I meant. Care to suggest another one that works? ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Buckaroo Kamakazee Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.12.17 18:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Hooligan Tool Originally by: Estel Arador I live in the real world, get 5.5 weeks of vacation of year, and they do accumulate. (Though any unspent vacation days are lost 5 years after getting them.) So can you use some other analogy? Holy crap! You get 5.5 weeks of vacation per year, and if you don't use that 5.5 weeks at all, the next year you would have 11 weeks of vacation? And the year after that you would have 16.5 weeks of vacation? I want your job!! Sarcasm aside, you know what I meant. Care to suggest another one that works? He must be a government worker to get that much vacation and have it carry over. His first clue was saying he lives in the "real" world with 5.5 weeks vacation.
Ravenal The Fated E.Y	Posted - 2010.12.17 19:34:00 - [22] Edited by: Ravenal on 17/12/2010 19:37:02 Originally by: Buckaroo Kamakazee His first clue was saying he lives in the "real" world with 5.5 weeks vacation. no, just depends on the country you live in ... I know I am doing the assumption thing here but ... there is real world outside the universal USA (where vacation days are notoriously few). Oh, and on topic... +1 remap = 2 for people that were "patient" enough to wait while stiffing those that only have a month or two ... or whatever. This stuff was just not thought through by whoever implemented this remap reset. I'd like my +1 for patiently waiting for my remap timer to expire thank you very much ... like everyone else that has to wait a year (duh...) .
Destamon Azure Freelancers	Posted - 2010.12.19 16:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Gryganne 1. If I get a free remap now and my remap timer ends on, say, Jan. 1st, does that mean I will have 2 remaps available on Jan. 1st if I don't use the free one given me today? Nope. Remaps don't accumulate - if you have one, you won't get another. Devs explained this recently. Originally by: Gryganne 2. When I use the "free" remap before my standard remap timer is up, is my standard remap timer reset to one year from the date I used the free remap? This one I can personally verify. I had zero, next one was in April. I used the free one, now the next one is in December. So the timer is reset. Originally by: Gryganne 3. Essentially, how does the free remap interact with the standard remap system? What do we need to know here? From what the devs have been saying in the other thread, it's not treated as special in any way.

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