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Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:19:00 -
[1]
This will no doubt be labeled as market manipulation, that is not my intention. Disclosure: I trade in and produce the stuff (some at least).
The current sell price in Jita is currently equal to it's component sell prices of Precious and Toxic Metals. The trouble maker is Precious Metals, it has sustained a sharp price rise, Toxic Metals less so. Precious Metals is now on equal footing with Electrolytes, currently two of the most expensive/profitable P1 PI materials. And while Reactive metals currently has higher sell prices in Jita, a close look at the market history indicates some serious manipulation of the material (or a serious shortage).
I'm temporarily putting my EU factories offline and will be shipping my P1 materials to market directly. I'm also looking at switching over to profitable P0>P1 materials extraction, because this is not the first time this has happened. No whining though, because there were times it was very profitable, but the illusion that it takes less time do the activate extractors every day is gone. With P0>P1 extraction there is no chance of making a loss, there will always be a substantial profit...
Getting back to the Enriched Uranium. I Expect folks to stop producing EU from it's separate components, you'll be stuck with the folks that didn't notice and/or the folks that have a chain running on the planet P0>P1>P2. Or that have built up a reserve (to sell high).
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Carl Stewart
Blueprints For You
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:08:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Cergorach
...
The current sell price in Jita is currently equal to it's component sell prices of Precious and Toxic Metals. ...
You are doing it wrong.
Battleship BPCs, 10-runs starting at 3 million! |
Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Carl Stewart
You are doing it wrong.
While you might be right, folks will just ignore you if you don't substantiate that statement.
I might buy it in a different region for less, I might buy it through buy orders, but it is still more profitable to sell the PM/TM directly then refine it to EU and sell it then, time=money. Other high sec hubs might have higher prices for the EU, but those generally don't have the volume of Jita.
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admiral fovios
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.12.17 02:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cergorach
While you might be right, folks will just ignore you if you don't substantiate that statement.
Citation, please.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.17 02:52:00 -
[5]
This seems just like the "minerals are free" problem. I wouldn't be surprised to see enriched uranium just hang where it is. Someone is probably turning planetary PI directly into enriched uranium. Or they might be hauling enriched uranium out of 0.0 or a WH where profit per volume is an important consideration.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.17 09:51:00 -
[6]
PI is riddled with the 'resources are free' mind set. The vast majority are still trading below their production cost. A proper price for Enriched Uranium at component cost +10% profit is approx 9600 isk.
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2010.12.17 12:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
PI is riddled with the 'resources are free' mind set. The vast majority are still trading below their production cost. A proper price for Enriched Uranium at component cost +10% profit is approx 9600 isk.
It's not "resources are free", it's that "hassle has an ISK value".
Particularly with POS materials, my anecdotal and biased evidence (i.e. I asked about three dozen people I know who run POSes) says that most of them are using PI within their POS systems to produce their POS fuels, even if it would be more profitable to produce other things, and sell those products to buy POS fuels.
The perceived negative value (where spending your online time doing logistics instead of either industry or pewpew is perceived as a negative) of needing to sort out another set of transactions on top of minerals, ice, moongoo, etc. compared to the perceived profit available from the PI value chain, is just not enough to get those folks off their arses and into cargo ships.
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Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
SamuelAdams
Gallente
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 13:53:00 -
[8]
Money for nothing and clicks for free.
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:26:00 -
[9]
I'd hazard that the majority of EU is coming from 3 places, lo-sec, WH's and 0.0.
If the above is true, then EU will stay around the same value and not see a spike.
Lo-sec PI peeps don't want to be hauling stuff out every day
0.0 residents need to consider volume/isk value when using their Jump Freighters.
And haling hi-volume out of a wormhole is a real pain.
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Lady Oxycontin
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno
I'd hazard that the majority of EU is coming from 3 places, lo-sec, WH's and 0.0.
If the above is true, then EU will stay around the same value and not see a spike.
Lo-sec PI peeps don't want to be hauling stuff out every day
0.0 residents need to consider volume/isk value when using their Jump Freighters.
And haling hi-volume out of a wormhole is a real pain.
Speak for yourself missy. It's all very easy actually hauling out of a WH. You just do it in 2-3 trips wait 24-36 hours and then stick it on courier contract to an alt in Jita. I will admit that EU has price support from people who do PI for their POS's and don't want to bother with making a more expensive product.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lady Oxycontin
Speak for yourself missy. It's all very easy actually hauling out of a WH. You just do it in 2-3 trips wait 24-36 hours and then stick it on courier contract to an alt in Jita. I will admit that EU has price support from people who do PI for their POS's and don't want to bother with making a more expensive product.
I guess I have to point out that highest bid for enriched uranium is almost 4.9k isk per m3 in Jita right now while the highest bid for the average of ingredients toxic metals and precious metals is a bit over 1.1k isk per m3. That's four times the value per unit volume.
You do the math. Would you prefer shipping out something that's much more valuable than mexallon per m3 or something that's slightly over twice as valuable per m3 as pyerite?
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.12.19 14:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Lady Oxycontin
Speak for yourself missy. It's all very easy actually hauling out of a WH. You just do it in 2-3 trips wait 24-36 hours and then stick it on courier contract to an alt in Jita. I will admit that EU has price support from people who do PI for their POS's and don't want to bother with making a more expensive product.
I guess I have to point out that highest bid for enriched uranium is almost 4.9k isk per m3 in Jita right now while the highest bid for the average of ingredients toxic metals and precious metals is a bit over 1.1k isk per m3. That's four times the value per unit volume.
You do the math. Would you prefer shipping out something that's much more valuable than mexallon per m3 or something that's slightly over twice as valuable per m3 as pyerite?
For some people time =/= isk. When i was living in a WH hauling was the bane of my existence. It wasted so much time, it just wasn't worth it in the end.
Another thing to note is 5x the hauling is 5x the risk if your WH exit is in lo-sec, which most are unless you are doing PI in a C1.
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NeutronRonk
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Posted - 2010.12.19 14:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno
For some people time =/= isk. When i was living in a WH hauling was the bane of my existence. It wasted so much time, it just wasn't worth it in the end.
Another thing to note is 5x the hauling is 5x the risk if your WH exit is in lo-sec, which most are unless you are doing PI in a C1.
Considering that in C1 yield is the same as in higher tier wormholes if all you do PI then you can do it in C1. If you have a reason to be deeper then you will need to haul anyway.
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.12.19 14:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: NeutronRonk
Originally by: Maria Yumeno
For some people time =/= isk. When i was living in a WH hauling was the bane of my existence. It wasted so much time, it just wasn't worth it in the end.
Another thing to note is 5x the hauling is 5x the risk if your WH exit is in lo-sec, which most are unless you are doing PI in a C1.
Considering that in C1 yield is the same as in higher tier wormholes if all you do PI then you can do it in C1. If you have a reason to be deeper then you will need to haul anyway.
As the majority of WH residents aren't in WHs for just the PI, they only do PI as an added bonus.
There are a fair few people in c1's for the PI but i'd wager that there are many more in c3's and above doing PI on the side while they are waiting for their sites to re-spawn or while they are mining.
Those C3 and above residents will focus more on the isk/m3 rather than isk/hr of PI
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