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Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.17 03:47:00 - [1] I'm new to Eve but I do okay with regional trading. So far, I haven't worried about moving my goods, I've just resold them remotely but I'm curious. What is the expected rate for ship hauling? I looked at current contract offers and they run between 50 and 75 isk/m3 with 100% collateral. I guess what I really want to know is how quickly would a hauler pick up a contract to move a 10,000m3 product 8 jumps for a 1mil isk reward with 100mil collateral?
Vested Interest	Posted - 2010.12.17 03:49:00 - [2] Quite likely under 3 hours if you stick with that 1-3% collateral for an indy load up to 25 or so jumps.
Swidgen	Posted - 2010.12.17 03:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Vested Interest Quite likely under 3 hours if you stick with that 1-3% collateral for an indy load up to 25 or so jumps. Always set collateral high enough to cover the cost of the goods. Most courier contracts I've seen (not a lot lately) seem to pay one-half of 1% of the collateral value. Higher than that and it will probably get picked up faster, but delivery may still take up to a day. Set the reward to 1% and specify in the contract description "2% bonus for delivery within 4 hours" or something like that. Then make sure you pay it if it does get delivered!
Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:09:00 - [4] Thank you for the answers. Let me see if I understand this, supposing my 100mil/10,000m3 example, a reasonable offer would be 500k-1mil for any movement under 25 jumps but that an additional 500-1mil payout upon prompt completion would dramatically reduce the time taken for it to be picked up? How would contract effectiveness vary if I were to offer a full 2% reward instead of providing a bonus upon completion?
James Tundra Gallente Tundra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Rule18 Thank you for the answers. Let me see if I understand this, supposing my 100mil/10,000m3 example, a reasonable offer would be 500k-1mil for any movement under 25 jumps but that an additional 500-1mil payout upon prompt completion would dramatically reduce the time taken for it to be picked up? Assuming that the destination is high security, and that the route is 25 jumps or less all in high security. Originally by: Rule18 How would contract effectiveness vary if I were to offer a full 2% reward instead of providing a bonus upon completion? You could easily make a 100% reward; however, the hauler is not going to correlate a higher reward with a demand for faster delivery. If you'd like fast delivery (Under 24 hours) I would recommend offering a bonus in the description if its completed on time. -James Tundra, Tundra Investment Fund
Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:57:00 - [6] Gotchya, The market can be intimidating for new players such as myself and these little things help a lot. Thank you!!!
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2010.12.17 08:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Rule18 I guess what I really want to know is how quickly would a hauler pick up a contract to move a 10,000m3 product 8 jumps for a 1mil isk reward with 100mil collateral? Setting the right collateral is important. If you value something at 100mil, but the avg Jita sell orders value them at 110mil, then setting the collateral at 100mil (90%) is stupid. There are folks that scan courier contracts looking for undervalued collaterals for profit. Setting collaterals can be highly subjective, but I would start at minimum 1.5x avg sell order to comfortably recompense you on the materials (but not time lost). Better yet, do a 2x avg sell order to ensure if the courier is accepted, it doesn't get waylaid.
egola Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.17 08:22:00 - [8] 2% collateral, and collateral= Value at which i sell item-courier contract value and sales tax(prefer if they downright stole the thing really)
Tiserra	Posted - 2010.12.17 08:57:00 - [9] You can always check out the guys at Red Frog. http://red-frog.org/jumps.php
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.17 10:05:00 - [10] Originally by: egola 2% collateral, and collateral= Value at which i sell item-courier contract value and sales tax(prefer if they downright stole the thing really) From Hub-to-Hub I've found that 2% is far too high a price to pay. For anything involving lowsec, it's sometimes hard to get a contract picked up at any price. But you really ought to pad your collateral by 50% or so. Think of it as a "nice bonus" and it can prevent you from having your cargo taken if the price slightly moves while your package is in transit.

Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2010.12.17 12:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Tiserra You can always check out the guys at Red Frog. http://red-frog.org/jumps.php Red Frog advertise for freighter-loads, not indy-loads. Stuff going out of Jita: - in packages of <10k m^3 - with collateral <100m - with fee = 1% collateral goes within a day. --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.
William Tundra Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.17 15:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Julia Venatrix Originally by: Tiserra You can always check out the guys at Red Frog. http://red-frog.org/jumps.php Red Frog advertise for freighter-loads, not indy-loads. Stuff going out of Jita: - in packages of <10k m^3 - with collateral <100m - with fee = 1% collateral goes within a day. From my experience: Stuff going out of Jita: - in packages of <300k m^3 - with collateral up to four billion isk - with fee = .5% to 1% collateral Goes within a day. -William Tundra, Tundra Investment Fund
Vested Interest	Posted - 2010.12.17 17:43:00 - [13] I'm going to give away a billion credit secret: If you want to cultivate a reputation as a fair shipper, whose jobs are worth seeking out, than your contractors need to be able to find your jobs quickly and easily. Pick a unique keyword and put it in the description of all your jobs. Keep it short so it doesn't interfere with the detailed description you are going to put on every contract. I suggest the format "(source system) >> (destination system) KEYWORD" I've issued nearly 10,000 successful courier gigs using this method. It's easy, helps with organization, and delivers results: dodixie >> nonni bananas otsasai >> jita bananas LOWSEC tash-murkon prime >> oursulaert bananas rens >> onnamon bananas archavoinet >> orvolle bananas LOWSEC transit Working with private courier services is unnecessary and cumbersome when you have a rep for putting out good contracts.
Corcyrus Endymion Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming	Posted - 2010.12.17 18:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Vested Interest I'm going to give away a billion credit secret: If you want to cultivate a reputation as a fair shipper, whose jobs are worth seeking out, than your contractors need to be able to find your jobs quickly and easily. Pick a unique keyword and put it in the description of all your jobs. Keep it short so it doesn't interfere with the detailed description you are going to put on every contract. I suggest the format "(source system) >> (destination system) KEYWORD" I've issued nearly 10,000 successful courier gigs using this method. It's easy, helps with organization, and delivers results: dodixie >> nonni bananas otsasai >> jita bananas LOWSEC tash-murkon prime >> oursulaert bananas rens >> onnamon bananas archavoinet >> orvolle bananas LOWSEC transit Working with private courier services is unnecessary and cumbersome when you have a rep for putting out good contracts. Paying out half decent rewards will do the trick just as well.
Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.18 12:31:00 - [15] Thanks for all the tips guys. I like the idea of a keyword :-P One problem, its been over 24 hours and no bites! even with a 1% reward/ 1% bonus/ 100% collateral / 20 jumps. I just want my package to move :-(
Corcyrus Endymion Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming	Posted - 2010.12.18 12:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Rule18 Thanks for all the tips guys. I like the idea of a keyword :-P One problem, its been over 24 hours and no bites! even with a 1% reward/ 1% bonus/ 100% collateral / 20 jumps. I just want my package to move :-( The problem might lie with either the destination or the point of origin, lying in 0 or low-sec. Or it might be that even though you put up a 1% reward, it might be 1% of too low an amount for anyone to be interested. Or it might be that it's simply to far from the beaten path to be of much interest. Etc, etc.
Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.18 13:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Rule18 on 18/12/2010 13:35:33 If it'll help me adjust my pricing accordingly I'm more than happy to eve-mail a contract link so you can see all the details. Tell you what, 5mill isk to anyone who's advice gets this picked up in a 24 hour window -edit- So far Swidgen's hasn't worked ( I really want the asset out of escrow and into an order!)
trance atlas	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:17:00 - [18] what is pickup what is drop off ?
Rule18	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Rule18 on 18/12/2010 14:52:23 Rancer --> Dodixie -edit- No, I will not pay out an extra 5 mil if you just run the contract or me :-P What I want more than my contract to move is to know how to replicate the results i.e. how to properly set courier contracts.
Risk Aversion	Posted - 2010.12.18 15:09:00 - [20] Rancer haha. I wouldn't expect that job to move for less than 4% of 100m collateral. Might take closer to 6m out of a busy lowsec area like that. Sometimes lowsec jobs just sit, and sit.

trance atlas	Posted - 2010.12.18 16:33:00 - [21] answer its from rancer
Leeroy Failfit Minmatar Legio Invicta Black Skull Legion.	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:35:00 - [22] Edited by: Leeroy Failfit on 18/12/2010 22:35:32 I've done a couple courrier contracts myself, and honnestly i don't care about what % of the collateral i get as a reward, i care about how much isk/jump. why? Because time is money, and under 350k isk/jump, i'd rather be.... mining
daisy dook	Posted - 2010.12.19 12:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Rule18 Edited by: Rule18 on 18/12/2010 14:52:23 Rancer --> Dodixie -edit- No, I will not pay out an extra 5 mil if you just run the contract or me :-P What I want more than my contract to move is to know how to replicate the results i.e. how to properly set courier contracts. Rancer troll best troll... For the serious amongst you it would be better to split the cargo into blockade runner sized chunks.
Hax Zoidberg	Posted - 2010.12.19 19:18:00 - [24] Originally by: Sturmwolke There are folks that scan courier contracts looking for undervalued collaterals for profit. Those evil bastards really tarnish the good name of our proud profession. I can assure you that I at least am a trustworthy courier and would never stoop so low. Originally by: Sturmwolke Setting collaterals can be highly subjective, but I would start at minimum 1.5x avg sell order to comfortably recompense you on the materials (but not time lost). Better yet, do a 2x avg sell order to ensure if the courier is accepted, it doesn't get waylaid. Great advice, just be careful you don't end up like this guy: 950M reward courier contract. The guy begged me not to deliver, but what choice did I have? I'd accepted a binding contract and I'm a honest businessman, my hands were tied, I had to deliver. 560M worth of goods inside btw, so the collateral he was trying to set was nearly double the value of the items. A more accurate collateral would've cost him a lot less. He's hardly the first to mix up the collateral and reward fields: 250M reward contract. 200M worth of nanoribbons inside. Originally by: James Tundra You could easily make a 100% reward; however, the hauler is not going to correlate a higher reward with a demand for faster delivery. If you'd like fast delivery (Under 24 hours) I would recommend offering a bonus in the description if its completed on time. Actually, I do generally assume that a high reward means wanting fast delivery, although it can't hurt to add something along the lines of 'ASAP please' in the comments field anyway. The only exception is if the courier delivery period is set to several days, in which case I assume the person doesn't care how long it takes as long as it gets done, although I'll still probably get it done within a day. Originally by: Leeroy Failfit I've done a couple courrier contracts myself, and honnestly i don't care about what % of the collateral i get as a reward, i care about how much isk/jump. why? Because time is money, and under 350k isk/jump, i'd rather be.... mining I agree. Normally I don't care about the size of the collateral unless it's stupendously large as long as it pays at least 1M per jump, 2M per jump if it involves low-sec and can fit in a blockade runner. If you're paying 2-3x those rates, I'll try my best to expedite delivery.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.19 20:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Sturmwolke Setting the right collateral is important. If you value something at 100mil, but the avg Jita sell orders value them at 110mil, then setting the collateral at 100mil (90%) is stupid. There are folks that scan courier contracts looking for undervalued collaterals for profit. Setting collaterals can be highly subjective, but I would start at minimum 1.5x avg sell order to comfortably recompense you on the materials (but not time lost). Better yet, do a 2x avg sell order to ensure if the courier is accepted, it doesn't get waylaid. 200% collateral ftw!
Jax Tellor	Posted - 2010.12.21 23:02:00 - [26] I enjoy hauling, and will haul for friends whenever asked, but have stopped looking at the courier contracts because the collateral to reward is way out of wack to me. I understand the need for the collateral, but why am I going to risk 100 million in collateral for a 1 million pay day? I don't have an answer to this problem, but that is why I stopped looking at courier contracts. I enjoy the work, but I'm no longer going to agree to those outrageous ratio's. With that being said, if you're willing to negotiate the ratio, then be sure to look up No Questions Supply. Public channel NQSupply. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1407075&page=1#26 We can and will haul all sizes of loads - from a couple m3 to freighter loads. Although I'm a little more picky on the reward to collateral, I do understand the need for collateral. You can also go on that post and ruin any chance of me getting future business if I scam you.
SargeantNekkid DDS	Posted - 2010.12.22 11:26:00 - [27] As someone who does a little contract hauling myself, here's my perspective: I do my trading on a trade alt. This trade alt does light high-sec interregional trading with an industrial. When I'm going to make a run between systems, before I leave station, I look at the courier contracts originating at that station. If I find a courier contract with a destination the same as the station I'm going to, whether or not I will accept depends on two things: 1) Collateral. If I have the cash on hand to afford the collateral I will do it. High-sec running has very little risk and I don't run high-value stuff, so the risk of me losing the collateral is pretty damn near zero. But, considering the fact that I reinvest everything I make, I don't generally have more than a few dozen million on hand. 2) Cargo space. If I have the space to take it, I'll take it. But I don't fly a Charon all day, so I'm not going to accept those 700,000 m3 contracts, or even 50,000 m3 contracts. I don't look at the reward. For me, fulfilling these courier contracts is just a matter of hey, why not make a few million more isk on the side for literally no effort whatsoever. HOWEVER - there's quite a few people who do hauling as their primary way of making isk. In that case, don't ask them to haul out the freighter (i.e. those 700,000 m3 contracts) for a few million in reward, I don't care how few jumps in high-sec it is. Flying freighters is painful. The reward should go up as the volume requirements go up. Furthermore, you have to remember - the higher the collateral, the less affordable your contract is and the longer you will have to wait. If your courier contracts are high-sec jumps only, I would heavily debate whether or not it was worth it to ask for collateral below the worth of the items I'm asking to be couriered. Haulers can't see what's inside before accepting the contract, and the predominant thinking is "that collateral is worth more than what I'm hauling so I'm not going to open it". Ergo, your only real threat of it not being delivered is from high-sec ganking, i.e. if whoever is hauling your stuff is also hauling valuable stuff and by the virtue of the valuable stuff gets ganked. It's a risk - anyone want to weigh in exactly how often high-sec courier contracts don't get delivered? The payoff, of course, is that your stuff gets delivered faster because the contract is more affordable. I suppose, after a while, someone could run the numbers. "I made X more money because it was delivered Y faster but lost Z money from collateral-real value from high sec ganking and since X > Z it makes sense to undervalue collateral".
Kalinda Farstrider	Posted - 2010.12.22 13:52:00 - [28] Originally by: SargeantNekkid DDS the predominant thinking is "that collateral is worth more than what I'm hauling so I'm not going to open it". Ergo, your only real threat of it not being delivered is from high-sec ganking, i.e. if whoever is hauling your stuff is also hauling valuable stuff and by the virtue of the valuable stuff gets ganked. You can look in the parcel after you've accepted the contract. Judging by the number of failed contracts I see, I imagine it's pretty standard practise to have a poke around in the bubblewrap to figure out if it's more profitable to deliver or renege.
Taren MacAoidh Minmatar T.R.I.A.D	Posted - 2010.12.22 19:09:00 - [29] I wish I would have done more research before setting up my contract. I'm at work atm and can't change anything. 25,000m3 from Rens to Teonusude (5 Jumps) with 45mil collateral and 50mil reward. -- Manu Forti
Funesta	Posted - 2010.12.22 19:37:00 - [30] If you are trying to get things out of lowsec, I'll offer some suggestions. (1) It isn't really viable to use industrials for that kind of thing. The industrial is at too high a risk to get shot down. You can make successful runs, certainly, and a bunch of warp core stabilizers and some armor or shields can help. However, in the long term, it isn't profitable - ship losses are too high, and the warp core stabilizers eat into your cargo space too much. Additionally, I'm not sure, with as many warp core stabilizers I'd need to fit, that I could even CARRY 10,000 m3 in a large industrial. My mammoth carries about 13m3 with a moderate skill set and full cargo extenders 1 in the low slots. With 2 or 3 stabilizers, that volume drops considerably, and I sure wouldn't put cargo extenders 2 or a rig on a slow industrial ship I was taking to lowsec. (2) Destroyers, however, I will gladly use to haul stuff in lowsec. They can carry around 500m3 each (I think mine carries 552 m3 with normal cargo extenders 1, no rigs). They align fast enough that I don't need a warp core stabilizer. Several frigates can also hold roughly 500 in cargo. So, break your contracts into smaller bunches, if you can, when they traverse lowsec space. It allows the courier to use cheaper ships, so they suffer little to no loss for being shot down. It also allows the courier to use a faster ship that is much harder to shoot down at a gate due to fast align times and quick warps. Myself, I would gladly courier 20 batches of 500 for someone out of lowsec, but I wouldn't touch 1 batch of 10,000 until I can afford a blockade runner or a deep space transport.



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