| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lord Zim
1141
   |
Posted - 2012.08.16 06:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Guzario x wrote:Well the point was to make it so JF's cant just cyno out of hisec risk-free. alliances would have to risk a normal freighter into lowsec to load the JF, and the JF would then cyno to wherever he was going.
Obviously titan bridging JF's would need to be changed as well to prevent that.
In other words, you don't want nullsec to have the fights they currently do, because they can't replace losses.
Sigras wrote:what about titan bridging normal freighters? IMHO this is currently the #1 problem with 0.0 logistics, titans make it childs play to run a massive alliance's logistics chain
Well, your opinion would be wrong, we don't use freighters for most things, the only things which need freighters are various system/station upgrades, I think.
And if you make freighter runs mandatory again, then people'll just end up not bothering to upgrade the outer systems anymore. vOv |
Guzario x
The Black Trade
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 06:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Guzario x wrote:Well the point was to make it so JF's cant just cyno out of hisec risk-free. alliances would have to risk a normal freighter into lowsec to load the JF, and the JF would then cyno to wherever he was going.
Obviously titan bridging JF's would need to be changed as well to prevent that. In other words, you don't want nullsec to have the fights they currently do, because they can't replace losses. Sigras wrote:what about titan bridging normal freighters? IMHO this is currently the #1 problem with 0.0 logistics, titans make it childs play to run a massive alliance's logistics chain Well, your opinion would be wrong, we don't use freighters for most things, the only things which need freighters are various system/station upgrades, I think. And if you make freighter runs mandatory again, then people'll just end up not bothering to upgrade the outer systems anymore. vOv
id prefer nullsec to have more fights, but not at the cost of alliances not suffering any loss from losing a battle because they have a trillion isk and can replace an entire fleet easy. |
Sigras
Conglomo
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
160
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 06:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
youre telling me that all of goonswarm's titan production, and the massive scale of consumption in goonswarm from ammo to POS fuel to ships are all fueled by jump freighters?
If that is true I am extremely impressed but i call bull screenshots or it didnt happen!
BOB needed dozens and dozens of freighters a day even with mineral compression and they used titans to throw them around even after JFs were introduced. This is well documented.
If you can produce evidence to validate your claims, i will believe them and I will be very impressed, but it will confuse me greatly. Why not bring freighters in? it would be so much easier and cheaper there is basically no reason not to do it. |
Lord Zim
1141
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 06:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Guzario x wrote:id prefer nullsec to have more fights, but not at the cost of alliances not suffering any loss from losing a battle because they have a trillion isk and can replace an entire fleet easy.
ISK doesn't play a major role in how most wars go these days, people's morale break a long, long way before it's any issue at all.
Sigras wrote:youre telling me that all of goonswarm's titan production, and the massive scale of consumption in goonswarm from ammo to POS fuel to ships are all fueled by jump freighters?
Last I checked, yes.
Sigras wrote:If you can produce evidence to validate your claims, i will believe them and I will be very impressed, but it will confuse me greatly. Why not bring freighters in? it would be so much easier and cheaper there is basically no reason not to do it.
You can either believe me or you don't, I don't care. I mean, you can run around and take a look for yourself in the lowsec entrances to hisec we'd be likely to use, and see if you see a great stream of freighters sitting on titans. Have fun.
As to why: why not? It's easier, requires less coordination and doesn't put titans at risk/require titans be used which can be better spent doing what they do best, i.e. shoot NCdot towers and capitals. |
Guzario x
The Black Trade
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 06:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Guzario x wrote:id prefer nullsec to have more fights, but not at the cost of alliances not suffering any loss from losing a battle because they have a trillion isk and can replace an entire fleet easy. ISK doesn't play a major role in how most wars go these days, people's morale break a long, long way before it's any issue at all. .
seems like an issue to me right there, too much isk makes game less fun. |
Lord Zim
1141
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 07:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Guzario x wrote:seems like an issue to me right there, too much isk makes game less fun.
Wrong. The issue is the sov system makes the losing side lose morale within 1 or 2 systems being taken, or if you're -A- you proclaim you'll just retreat to stain within 2 days of a declaration of war, i.e. well before we've even gotten down there and started fighting. |
Guzario x
The Black Trade
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 13:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
bump |
Sejania Tor
Unity Systems Engineering
The Dog Pound
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 17:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yes, lets fix sov.....but it has to be done in a way thats not going to make things a big cluster. The major issue with mining in nulsec is refineries tend to suck hardcore. The POS refinery is generally crap and to really get any good use you need major refining skills. Basically 4s and 5s are required to not be a bit waste. Also moons supply the raw tech 2 materials but those still have to be put through 2 seperate processes before you can even begin to make tech 2 components for anything. Which means multiple storage modules. Several silos, reactors etc. Just for armor plates for lets say for 1 races ships at least 2 to 3 POSes. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
463
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
I agree with many of your sentiments....
Currently, sov is too easy to conquer. The mechanics encourage assembling overwhelming fleets to structure shoot at a static point in time. My suggestions for fixing it:
--- More medium gang oriented objectives that are not based on some static countdown timer. These need to be randomly spawning in nature, so ideally you should have a consistent presence in system to take advantage of them. And I don't really mean randomly spawning "Targets" to shoot, but perhaps targets too loot... where it's a race to see who can loot it.
--- You absolutely need some major structure-shoot based on a countdown... This encourages big fleet operations, which is healthy for the game. It's only unhealthy when sov conquest mechanics consist entirely of BIG FLEET OPS. I'd like conquest to start with a big op, and typically end with a big fleet op, but most of the stuff in the middle should be more medium gang oriented... possibly even accomplish-able by a single pilot...
--- I never partook in sov warfare when constellation capitals were around, and sov was based on towers. I think having all systems vulnerable 100% of the time is a mistake. I would like some mechanism that allowed a fully owned constellation to have some protected systems. How to accomplish this, I'm not sure.... the single invulnerable constellation capital seemed reasonable to me.... but I'm not sure it should be selectable (<- which may then be exploitable)... more like there is a given capital in all constellations...
Currently holding too much space....
--- In my opinion, if one alliance wants to conquer all of nullsec, let them.... I think holding lots of space is fine.... The caveat, the more space you hold, the more strung out you become, and the harder it is to hold on to that space...
Nullsec's reliance on Highsec. Nullsec is dependent on highsec because it lacks the resources to be self-sufficient. Easy logistics might help make us addicted to Jita's Milk, but really it's as much a necessity as it is a desire. I think JF's are generally fine as is.... although I'd make ONE change to them to really nerf cyno logistics in general: I'd prevent cynoing directly into dock range of a station... If you try to cyno into a station, I'd have you materialize about 5-15 km's outside the stations docking perimeter. This will cause people to cyno in at POS's and safespots, which is much, much more vulnerable to assault. Currently, with proper cyno placement, cyno travel is 100% RISK FREE....
Moongoo is moreless alright... with the recent alchemy changes and the upcoming ring mining, I'm fairly happy with the up and coming...
|
Lord Zim
1161
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Currently, sov is too easy to conquer.
You haven't tried this sov system on for size much, have you? |
Sejania Tor
Unity Systems Engineering
The Dog Pound
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 19:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Currently, sov is too easy to conquer. You haven't tried this sov system on for size much, have you?
Don't think he has It's a big pain the rear end. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
Nulli Secunda
75
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 19:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
I have an idea... lets go back to the old sov system  |
Lord Zim
1161
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 19:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:I have an idea... lets go back to the old sov system
With one minor difference: pocos instead of POSes, or some other planet-anchored structure. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
464
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 20:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sejania Tor wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Currently, sov is too easy to conquer. You haven't tried this sov system on for size much, have you? Don't think he has It's a big pain the rear end.
I think I need to elaborate my sentiment...
I have partaken in sov warfare.... and am familiar with it's mechanics. I don't mean to say that conquering sov from some major alliance is easy.... It's nigh impossible if you don't have the numbers to destroy the TCU when it exits it's final RF cycle.
What is easy, is the bully on the block can always beat down the smaller entities around them, and they can do soo VERY EASILY. I'm ok with the big guys being able to beat up and kick out the little guys, but the little guys should be able to put up some resistance.... which is very hard to do in the current sov schema. There are no guerilla targets, you can't resort to asymmetrical warfare, you can't really do much when the big guy comes in. Revamping sov warfare in some such manner is non-trivial, but as long as sov warfare is completely dependent on shooting massive EHP structures based on RF timers, even a medium sized alliance will NEVER secure a foothold (by force). |
Guzario x
The Black Trade
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 10:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Sejania Tor wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Currently, sov is too easy to conquer. You haven't tried this sov system on for size much, have you? Don't think he has It's a big pain the rear end. I think I need to elaborate my sentiment... I have partaken in sov warfare.... and am familiar with it's mechanics. I don't mean to say that conquering sov from some major alliance is easy.... It's nigh impossible if you don't have the numbers to destroy the TCU when it exits it's final RF cycle. What is easy, is the bully on the block can always beat down the smaller entities around them, and they can do soo VERY EASILY. I'm ok with the big guys being able to beat up and kick out the little guys, but the little guys should be able to put up some resistance.... which is very hard to do in the current sov schema. There are no guerilla targets, you can't resort to asymmetrical warfare, you can't really do much when the big guy comes in. Revamping sov warfare in some such manner is non-trivial, but as long as sov warfare is completely dependent on shooting massive EHP structures based on RF timers, even a medium sized alliance will NEVER secure a foothold (by force).
i agree with this, this is pretty much the issie this thread is on in a nutshell, ideas to fix are all we need. |
Tipof Thespear
Slingin' Rocks
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 20:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
+1 like the idea |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |