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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.19 18:18:00 -
[1]
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_interaction#Resource_Depletion
"If Raw Materials are extracted from a planet faster than they are generated by the planet you can suffer from resource depletion."
OK
"The more Extractors that are in an area the faster a Raw Materials depletes. How fast depends on how many Extractors and what kind of deposits you use. There is a 'ideal' number of players for each planet based on undisclosed factors."
What is an "area"? At which range does one extractor influence another? Why does it say there an ideal number of players and not an ideal number of extractors? If it's just a rough estimate, how can it be "ideal"? Is it different for every single planet?
"Raw Materials regenerate over time."
OK
"There is a minimum resource level, it is defined as a percentage of the initial un-depleted value."
OK
"There is no redistribution of resources, it works like a hole. You dig a hole with extractors and it fills back in over time. If you dig at the same rate as it refills the hole it will never empty."
What does that mean?: "There is no redistribution of resources". I an extractor affects an area, doesn't that imply redistribution in a way? Somwhere it was even mentioned that you can build your structures over those of another player. How much would that have more of a negative effect overall than building at some distance, and what distance would that have to be?
Clarifying this would be very helpful in determining whether it is better to have several people gathered around one especially good hotsopt, or to better place them on different sides of the planet, using less good hotspots.
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Jack Szilard
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Posted - 2010.12.19 19:05:00 -
[2]
This may sound rather callous, but if you want to know so badly, why not simply experiment with the smallest PI command center available?
I imagine the devs left it ambiguous for this very reason. To reward people who bother to put in the time to maximize profit.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2010.12.19 19:22:00 -
[3]
It means that the underlying hotspots don't move, just the current depletion-adjusted yield.
If you extract from a hotspot too fast, then your yields will drop. But if you then stop extracting, the hotspot will regenerate to it's full previous hotness.
It also means that depleting one area won't make other parts of the planet "hotter".
The optimal configuration is to put sufficient extractors on the hottest spot, such that the extraction rate exactly equals the regeneration rate (i.e. you get maximum extraction without depleting down the yield of the hotspot). Then move onto the next hottest spot and do the same (or move to a different planet if that planet has a hotter spot). ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.12.19 21:39:00 -
[4]
I have been running 5 hour cycles for several weeks nearly continuously, and I have never noticed any drop in extraction rates. I wouldn't swear they didn't drop by one or two units, but definitely not by 100 (out of 2500-3000 per cycle extracted). So if there is any depletion at all, it is either insignificant or only affects 30 minute cycles.
Note that this is all subject to change in the coming Incursion expansion in January. ___________
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.19 23:05:00 -
[5]
Thanks so far. Makes sense.
It might be that the regeneration rate is very high and thus even a single hotspot can sustain several player colonies. But since much can change about PI, it's probably wise to play it safe. Squeezing a bit more yield out of it now could mean big trouble after the PI overhaul.
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Karn Velora
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Posted - 2010.12.20 02:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Karn Velora on 20/12/2010 02:45:29 I have not noticed my extractors having any change in the yield at all, making me think there's another type of depletion at work altogether... Could it be that "depletion" is simply a function of the number of harvesters already placed in an area, and once placed, the harvesters keep the yield they were created with? That would mean you don't notice depletion after your colony has been built, however, any opportunist that shows up and dumps extractors on top of yours, will notice a low yield, as someone else is already grabbing the ores. That would also safeguard people from "assault-extraction" or "grief-extraction" - ruining other people's business and rendering expensive permanent non-refundable investments useless. And yes, you really can build your extractors smack on top of another player's operation; I've done it myself. (Hey, I wanted the NonCS Crystals!)
Such a functionality would be easier than any other to implement as resources are indeed stationary and unchanging, and determining yield would be a simple a matter of BaseResource-(NrOfExtractors*constant) at the time of the extractor's construction.
Currently, we have just about zero information on the subject. The wiki mentions "Please note: This entire section is based on comments by CCP Incognito." Based on comments, and later references to undiclosed factors - this is vague at best. Without looking at Incognito's statements first hand, there's no telling how all this actually works. From what I can see myself so far though... I'd wager a guess: either it takes a heck of a lot of extracting to deplete anything to a noticeable degree, or "depletion" may just be a fancy word for "too many harvesters already", like I described above.
Who knows? Would be nice to know though.
Should be easy to check though... Take two alts, dump a crapload of extractors in the same hotspot, and copy the operation with the other alt. If the chars have different extraction rates, despite being in the exact same spot... then ya'll owe me a cookie. :) I'll find out soon enough though, as I plan to have my alt copy my own setup, and "clone" the colonies. If anything funny is going on, I should know in about... oh... 48 hours or so.
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.20 03:25:00 -
[7]
What you describe as an assumption there is actually a good and just idea for resolving troubles with competition in PI.
If the wiki text is to be believed, though, there must be a continuous replenishing on resources.
Nice of you to try it out through comparing. Pioneer work in uncharted land.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2010.12.20 11:24:00 -
[8]
The resource depletion was very notable in high-sec in the opening days of PI. At that time there could have been a couple dozen people dropping onto a planet just after you did. Even though resource levels dropped it wasn't catastrophic, and there is a minimum level that rates can drop to. I don't have my old numbers but I would guess that levels may have dropped 5%, but I don't think it was even that high.
With setting up new planets now you will likely not see a drop at all since most players are already settled in. If you do see a drop it will be extremely small.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.12.21 02:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Matthew
If you extract from a hotspot too fast, then your yields will drop. But if you then stop extracting, the hotspot will regenerate to it's full previous hotness.
It also means that depleting one area won't make other parts of the planet "hotter".
This phenomenon has been observed with females of the species as well.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.21 07:53:00 -
[10]
Making experiments to find out how pi works best is the only way, besides reading about what other players found out by experiments. But PI is quite tedious in many ways. It doesnt work very intuitiv and some of the informations given are not very helpful at all. Also soon a lot will change with the next patch.
Plus there are a lot of bugs or very weird behavior with PI chains, if you try to squeeze out the maximum, which makes "experiment" a pain if you dont like to go into the bits of PI and just want to make some fuel for your POS, because you have to.
I personally call this PI Project pretty much failed so far, because of very bad game design. Still i am doing it, because its a lot of easy isk to make so i do it, but i hate doing it. Its simply not funny to do it, just painful stupid clicking. I personally never realized any depletion on my chains. Maybe because i am doing it in 0.0 space only in very good system and there are not a lot of people doing it there anyway. And thats why i can really make quite good isk with it.
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:21:00 -
[11]
I dont think its really small scale measurable, specially in 0sec.
But if there is a big alliance who wants to test out - what would be if 1000 ppl dumped extractors on a single planet and used 5 min intervals.
I.
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STONED OPERATOR
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:56:00 -
[12]
On Singularity the new system is showing visual hot spot depletion after only one 23hr cycle ...
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Sarmea Moon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.12.21 16:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Matthew
If you extract from a hotspot too fast, then your yields will drop. But if you then stop extracting, the hotspot will regenerate to it's full previous hotness.
It also means that depleting one area won't make other parts of the planet "hotter".
This phenomenon has been observed with females of the species as well.
Not True! You only believe this because you've never been deprived. The day I went to basic, I thought the males I was training with were quite fugly. By graduation, 4 months later, they actually started to look good:P Several deployments later.... I also got a good look at what their new definition of "hot" was... Hmnnnnn
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, coshes 'em, and rummages in their pockets for loose bits of grammar. |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.12.21 21:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/12/2010 21:37:42
Originally by: Sarmea Moon
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
This phenomenon has been observed with females of the species as well.
Not True! You only believe this because you've never been deprived.
LOL, may we pray that this remains true for years to come.
On a more serious note, depletion appears much more dramatic and severe on Sisi ATM. If it remains this way on TQ, then click fest will be replaced with drag fest.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Pemulis
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.30 15:59:00 -
[15]
Quote: 14:56:40 Notify You cannot begin exploiting the specified deposit. The facility's foreman does not appear to be answering his communicator, as he is likely out supervising the current deposit.
I get this message occasionally on only one of my planets, and only when I've been running 30 minute cycles for a bit.
Perhaps this is related to the resource depletion mentioned in the op, that I've slightly maxed out the regeneration of the deposit. Once I've given it a 3-5 minute break, I'm able to restart the extraction just fine.
Anyway, yeah, PI totally blows. I used learning skill SP to give lvl5 skills to 3 of my alts, one of them (this one) even has all lvl5 skills on every PI skill, and it's the worst gaming experience in EVE, ever. Worst waste of SP allocation ever. PI is even more tedious than doing reaction towers. It takes over 3,000 clicks to setup certain colonies with elite command centers, and it takes several hundred clicks 4-5 times per day to maintain them.
CCP has really backed themselves into a corner of current and future player unhappiness/boredom/carpal tunnel syndrome vs skyrocketing market costs that will screw over the rest of the EVE population that has already decided to stop doing PI.
Go CCP.
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