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WASD ship controls plz?

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Thorazyn	Posted - 2010.12.20 12:44:00 - [1] I would like to see WASD controls in eve sometime. Its what missing from this game so the gameplay improves a lot. I dont wanna eve to become an FPS game or a space combat pew pew game where you have to follow the target in order to hit it i hate this kind of fps space combat game and thats not what i am suggesting at all. This is what i suggest and would be perfect for eve: WASD cantrols pitch and yaw QE controls speed throttle my guns/missile will stick lock on a target and shoot like they do now. only that with WASD controls you can place the ship in a better position/course against ur target so you guns hits better. WASD also would help you manuever ur ship to avoid max dmg or flee from combat as well. WASD would also help you fly ur ship in a formation with other ships atm with mouse this is rly hard thing to do Along with WASD controls would be nice to add an GUI similar to fight jet pilots where the GUI indicates the course the plane should follow so its guns hit the target. In eve my guns will still hit the target whatever my course is cause my guns are turrets and they turn toward the target and lock him but still this GUI in combination with WASD controls will help me maximize the dmg of turrets by ''helping'' turret tracking with my WASD controls Sounds very nice to me and its whats missing from eve gameplay Sometimes gameplay is rly boring but adding WASD controls in combination with a course tracking GUI would boost gameplay very much. Gameplay is top priority for me when it comes to games eve got nice graphics and good rpg elements but besides fitting and clicking f1-f4 there isnt much 2do in a combat making gameplay a bit boring. I heard about lag issues but still i consider this top priority for this game and i would gladly trade fancy graphics and PI so lag reduces and add WASD controls (tracking GUI would be nice combination with WASD controls) Ship agility wouldnt change at all from how it is now ex. if my spaceship would take 5sec to turn with mouse it would still take 5 sec to turn with keyboard this would be exciting not only for small sized ships but for Bs and capital ships also it will be like driving a truck into space fair and simple still wasd controls and tracking GUI making it exciting. Thats my idea and thats whats missing from eve by my humble opinion and some more RL folks i talked with also. It must be rly hard to do for CCP thats why its not done yet but it must be done at all cost i think. If its not doable in eve then starting making eve2? Just make sure eve 2 is not like eve 1 in ship control but also make sure eve2 wont be like freelancer (pure FPS space shooting) just combine wasd manual ship controls with current eve gui, locking , turret tracking and you got a hell of a game going on
Thorazyn	Posted - 2010.12.20 12:52:00 - [2] Got idea for tracking GUI My idea is to add 2 tracking GUI. tracking GUI is like a line ,with a cirle on its end maybe, extending from enemy ship showing its course and speed something similar to fighter jets HUD GUI So add one tracking gui for offence (place ur ship in a course so ur turrets got better and easier tracking against enemy ship so they hit with max dmg) And add one tracking gui for defence (place ur ship in a course where enemy ships turrents wont be able to track you good enough to place max dmg hits) 2 tracking HUD GUI and WASD controls yarr this is to good to become truth i guess :(
Veliria	Posted - 2010.12.20 13:16:00 - [3] Problem with WASD or mouse flight (so called free flight) is the huge increase in input the client would have to send to the server. Rather than single actions (fly to, orbit, keep at range), every single frame of data would have to be sent. A fleet fight would become a gigantic lag ball of death. I'd love to be able to fly my ship around like I could in Freelancer, but I just don't see it happening.
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2010.12.20 13:39:00 - [4] You're commanding a ship, not flying a fighter.
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.20 14:37:00 - [5] This idea would only possibly work on nano'd frigates, rest of ships turn way to slow for it to be practical at all. I must say I do like the idea of having an optimal (0 traversal) line and a high traversal line as a guide for manual flying, you have to kinda gues atm with it.
Kabaal S'sylistha Caldari Technomage Trilogy Crimson Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.20 16:29:00 - [6] It's been brought up before. The only viable suggestion I've seen is a collection of static commands that make control a bit easier. IE, "Turn ship 90* left," "Nose 20* Up", "Full Astern" It compromises between more control and the command flood true flight control would bring. -More Pewpew, Less QQ-
cyndrogen	Posted - 2010.12.20 17:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Veliria Problem with WASD or mouse flight (so called free flight) is the huge increase in input the client would have to send to the server. Rather than single actions (fly to, orbit, keep at range), every single frame of data would have to be sent. A fleet fight would become a gigantic lag ball of death. I'd love to be able to fly my ship around like I could in Freelancer, but I just don't see it happening. You're thinking of problems not solutions. The client side could be piloted but the server side would still read inputs as clicks. It's not like you'll be changing direction every 200 milliseconds, plus on bigger slower ships you would not really need WSAD at all. It would be ideal for FAST frigates like the dramiel since flying that ship is a bloody nightmare with the current system. Also orbiting should have 3 default settings at minimum 1 is just not enough and it takes too long to change when you need to get away fast. I would like to see a longitude and latitude orbit as well since the default orbit is always the same.
Horizonist	Posted - 2010.12.20 18:40:00 - [8] Edited by: Horizonist on 20/12/2010 18:40:42 Originally by: DuKackBoon You're commanding a ship, not flying a fighter. This. It would potentially work for a frigate, maybe even a destroyer, but it would make no sense for anything bigger than a cruiser, let alone a capital ship. Also, as another poster pointed out, it would increase server load too much - and the server barely handles (if you count lag-death to be "handling") large inputs pretty bad already.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:31:00 - [9] Edited by: ShahFluffers on 20/12/2010 22:31:09 There is a flaw with your argument. You state that "The client side could be piloted but the server side would still read inputs as clicks." The current system, while not ideal, is efficient in the sense that when you double click in space you send out a SINGLE command to "go in that direction." Likewise, hitting the approach/orbit/warp to button is a SINGLE command. Putting in WASD key commands is, by its very nature, flight micromanagement. You pitch one way, you have to adjust yaw another way. And the more agile/speedy the ship is the more "adjustments" to the flight path you must make. As said before, when it's 10 vs. 10 or 20 vs. 20 you might not see that much of a difference (and yes, such fights will be vastly more fun)... but it will essentially BREAK large fleet battles when the server is attempting to process the micromanaged flight paths of 1000+ ships from 1000+ clients in a short period of time. Gamers are not renown for their patience. I'd put money on the grand majority of players changing direction "every 200 milliseconds" regardless of the size/speed/agility of their ships. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Vertisce Soritenshi O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.21 01:24:00 - [10] The biggest response I have heard against the WASD request is that it requires more input from the client to the server therefor increasing lag. I think I have a solution for this. One game I played...(cant remember the name)...had WASD controls in which if you used W to move up you would continually move up until you used S to level out again. Each ship could have a different range of possible pitch and yaw. Use WASD to actively adjust how much pitch or yaw you want to have at any given time. -10 through +10 both ways with 0 being the obvious neutral position. Clicking in space will still work as normal and WASD would be no different than clicking in space when it comes to server load and number of commands given to the server. Quite frankly I spend more time clicking in space trying to get my ship going where I WANT it to go that I probably cause more stress on the server than if I had a WASD option. Sig.Learning skills vote.

Kara Sharalien Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2010.12.21 08:40:00 - [11] I have explained twice this month, and often explain twice every month, why this cant be implemented. I'm not doing it a third time. Use the god damned search site before you post this **. Thats why chribba hosts it. hint: latency. Originally by:** Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
Insane Randomness	Posted - 2010.12.22 02:38:00 - [12] I never proclaim to be a professional when it comes to programming, but it seems to me that it would be lag central. Someone stated however, that this would make 1000+ person lag fights absolute misery, which is quite true. However, as far as I can tell, aren't they already misery? It's simply a very easy solution to breaking up fights into smaller sections. It doesn't require 1k members to take down a POS quickly, more like a tenth that. Same thing with ship to ship combat. I haven't been involved in 0.0 warfare very much, but I know my fair share of combat, and I have done massive blob battles. Most of us don't have a military class network to deal with the load. Thus, breaking up the massive fights into more manageable fights, where there are tens, not hundreds of players makes sense until technology catches up, which is probably when the player count will catch up. There could be other solutions too. Someone mentioned the fact with the client doing the flying. While it could yes do that, it still does that already. Thats not what slows it down, correct me if I'm wrong, it's the communication between the client and the server. Better idea, don't tell the server which way to point the ship, simply tell the server where the ship is, everything else doesn't really matter, does it? This is about moving your ship more efficiently and effectively than todays UI and commands, and personally, I'd like to fly my ship manually, instead of letting the computer do it for me. Course there are other issues to. Try flying that speed demon dramiel at 4-6km a sec without slamming into anything, while watching out for enemies, whilst pressing other multiple buttons for guns. And don't forget the hassle of drones.
Saffin	Posted - 2010.12.22 10:38:00 - [13] I would not use it but when they free up the keyboard they could put a cross hair on and give you keyboard shortcuts for moving the camera. It could lock onto to object (not target lock) but select the object then have keys for align, warp to etc. This way people used to wasd style controls can use them but have no effect on the server, it would all be client side. No different from clicking the object in overview and clicking the button, or double clicking space. So you have say wasd to move camera (like using mouse) q to warp to zero on nearest object to cross hair (like clicking object on overview and pressing button) e to move in direction of cross hair (like double clicking where crosshair is in space) ctrl-e to lock nearest object to cros hair Im sure there could be many others can't be bothered to think of them all now though. Saf
Mocam	Posted - 2010.12.22 10:53:00 - [14] Originally by: cyndrogen Originally by: Veliria Problem with WASD or mouse flight (so called free flight) is the huge increase in input the client would have to send to the server. Rather than single actions (fly to, orbit, keep at range), every single frame of data would have to be sent. A fleet fight would become a gigantic lag ball of death. I'd love to be able to fly my ship around like I could in Freelancer, but I just don't see it happening. You're thinking of problems not solutions. The client side could be piloted but the server side would still read inputs as clicks. It's not like you'll be changing direction every 200 milliseconds, plus on bigger slower ships you would not really need WSAD at all. It would be ideal for FAST frigates like the dramiel since flying that ship is a bloody nightmare with the current system. Also orbiting should have 3 default settings at minimum 1 is just not enough and it takes too long to change when you need to get away fast. I would like to see a longitude and latitude orbit as well since the default orbit is always the same. I think you've got the idea here. Most MMO's are a hell of a lot of "smoke and mirrors" -- such control would be the same as now, only masked on the sending/client side is all. It would have to be based upon current movement logic in the game just with the "clicked out there" or "adjusted orbit distance" changes applied... oddly. Lag would be hell if it were a true WASD interface... You could find yourself at uncomfortable/deadly ranges from your target very easily (too close or too far away) but using a kind of 'orbit range' adjustment or the like... It might be doable.
Zogra	Posted - 2010.12.24 11:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 20/12/2010 18:40:42 Originally by: DuKackBoon You're commanding a ship, not flying a fighter. This. It would potentially work for a frigate, maybe even a destroyer, but it would make no sense for anything bigger than a cruiser, let alone a capital ship. Also, as another poster pointed out, it would increase server load too much - and the server barely handles (if you count lag-death to be "handling") large inputs pretty bad already. No it will work on bigger ships also Many times with my art maelstorm i click in space in order to reduce traversal speed and increase my dps Pointing and clicking is boring and annoying especially if i dont have anything else to do (targets locked guns assigned med slots activated and drones are engaged) so i got nothing better to do except to fly my ship in order to reduce the traversal speed to increase my guns dps and there where the wasd or joystick controls come in to fulfill the gameplay in eve. Or just for pure fun flying your ship into a formation with your teammates with point and click its a hard thing to do nowdays
Thorazyn	Posted - 2010.12.24 12:17:00 - [16] After a small search i made i found an ahk2 script a player made sometime ago and it was pretty much adding joystick control without adding new commands and lag into server. Something like this with combination of a traverse speed tracking GUI i suggested would be a huge advancement to eve gameplay It would make the gameplay more realistic much more intresting, addictive and skill required because instead to just fit ur ship then go into combat and activate guns mods and set an orbit and just watch the ship fighting alone you will be able fly manually to determine ur traverse speed against ur target and this will be helpful both for offence and for defence. Manual control will also bring more skill required into gameplay since the traverse speed can almost double your turret dps or reduce a lot incoming blows depending the situation you are you will use the right tactic in order to increase or decrease traverse speed. Also i c devs are working to improve the game in other sections like PI and economy and stuff like that when the game needs a gameplay boost. I think dev should work on gameplay improvements instead of adding PI stuff and other boring stuff. Just with a small search i made over the internet and i find many ppl that are dissapointed from the lack of manual control and the click and point flight Maybe the solution is simple enough with a hotkey program like ahk2? it will get the job done without adding new commands and server lag you think the hotkey will cause lag with auto clicking all the time when moving the joystick? i dont think so in fact when i fly the ship with point and clicks i click so much i already replaced one mouse also and the lack of any other control system makes me click even more..... so i actually feel i fly the ship or i am commanding accurate the ship. point and clicking = boring and unrealistic manual control = fun, realistic and more easy to use your skills to achive max dps or avoiding incoming hits traverse speed GUI = kick ass combination with manual controls or even with point and click could be nice the traverse speed GUI this is a pure tool that will highlight the game rpg mechanics and depth, def a very nice addition also(in other rpg's you just select and target and run like crazy in any direction and shooting without getting reduced dmg this is unrealistic while in eve course and speed makes hits much more realistic and this should be highlighted into gameplay with a GUI) So Manual ship controls, walking in station and a traverse speed tracking GUI and we got ourself a hell of a game that will lure many, maybe thousands of new players into the game. just imagine how many ppl will start playing eve cause it got wasd or joystick controls and new nob player wont be plexing so they will pay with RL money this mean more income for CCP but with stuff like PI its nice for older players that own pos and stuff but this doesnt lure new players into game Walking in station its good mostly for social relations but social's are already good in this game since its a corp based game and players will be a part of a corp if they wanna progress the game but ship manual controls is better and its boosting the weak part of eve and that is gameplay and by my opinion i think devs should work on manual controls first then work on walking in stations. I hope CCP will understand the value of gameplay and try to improve it soon. My post is suggesting ideas on how to improve gameplay and adding manual control and traverse speed tracking GUI is a pure boost into gameplay
ryan2sdsdsadsad	Posted - 2010.12.24 14:32:00 - [17] +1
Thorazyn	Posted - 2010.12.28 13:21:00 - [18] I would like an official dev reply on this plz. I got many isk sitting around but i am not buying plex i pay the company with RL money because i want you to make this game even better all those years i pay with RL money hoping that you will make WASD or joystick controls come true. Now i want the company to officially tell me if my money are going to gameplay improvement or PI and social * improvements. There are many new scifi mmorpg spaceship games that have manual ship controls and i might just try them out if eve wont ever add manual ship controls. In my posts i proved that WASD is important for gameplay and that is not hard to be made.(hotkey script or the below post a player suggested) Script or the below player post wont add lag into the server. Even if it would add lag? Make a new bloody server not big deal if u got 2 sandboxes or even 3. Server lags anyway in big battles adding another sandbox might just fix that also. Cant cost that much a server i would say 50k euro? u can get that in a month or two but if me and another 500 players stop playing the game because of lack of manual controls and boring gameplay then this is better for the company? Especially players that play with RL money like me I expect more when i pay so much money each month this game is more expensive than wow i am glad it is cause its an awesome game and wow is a kid game but it needs a gameplay boost asap cause it gets boring as hell sometimes and besides that its rly annoying to click all the time to navigate your ship and its unrealistic also and you cant navigate the ship accurate this way its 100% obvious eve needs manual controls anything will be better than clicking all the time on a 3d space. If it was a 2d game its ok to click but on 3d games u get lost with clicking Ic you got a joystick or wasd controls on common ideas thread but this means you will do it soon or later or you will never do this? Plz a dev reply to me so i know i would really appreciate a honest reply from the company ty in advance This is a player's idea on how to make wasd or joystick controls without lag: Originally by:** Vertisce Soritenshi The biggest response I have heard against the WASD request is that it requires more input from the client to the server therefor increasing lag. I think I have a solution for this. One game I played...(cant remember the name)...had WASD controls in which if you used W to move up you would continually move up until you used S to level out again. Each ship could have a different range of possible pitch and yaw. Use WASD to actively adjust how much pitch or yaw you want to have at any given time. -10 through +10 both ways with 0 being the obvious neutral position. Clicking in space will still work as normal and WASD would be no different than clicking in space when it comes to server load and number of commands given to the server. Quite frankly I spend more time clicking in space trying to get my ship going where I WANT it to go that I probably cause more stress on the server than if I had a WASD option. btw what game was that? The other idea i am saying is to use a hotkey script that will take control of you mouse with a joystick like an player did in the past with ahk2 hotkey script and it was working good without adding new commands and extra lag. Nothing was changed gui was still the same just when u where using joystick you could navigate ur ship and when u touch the mouse script was turning off and mouse was working as usual and joystick was there only to navigate the ship and a nice addition would be to add some shortcuts for reloading ur weapons and adjust yr speed also add the traverse speed tracking gui so it points you where to fly ur ship against ur target to achive max turret dps or avoid max dmg.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.12.28 18:07:00 - [19] you really should be more careful in your choice of arguments. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Davelantor Caldari The Hunt United Front Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.28 19:31:00 - [20] hell yehaa ... if my spine was integrated into a ship, i would fly around like crazy :P The Hunt



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