| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chekov Nikahd
   |
Posted - 2010.12.21 08:20:00 -
[1]
This is the general Curse fit I was thinking of using.
I'm just wondering if an armor tanked Curse is viable - it seems that most people use shield tanked outfits. That, and are energy turrets worth using instead of the typical missile launchers?
|
Soldarius
Caldari
Independent Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 09:00:00 -
[2]
When you say energy turrets, do you mean lasers? Because the OP already swapped the launchers for 2 small neuts.
Disclaimer: I have never flown any race vessel other than Caldari.
In solo PvP, I think the armor curse would struggle, as any missile or dedicated drone boat will simply laugh at its neuts and TD. But vs turrets, it should really shine. Too bad about relying exclusively on drones for damage. But if your target can't hit you and you don't have to worry about running out of ammo, time is your friend.
In nul-sec fleets I think it would fit in great. Neuts and mobility would allow it to wtfpwn logistics. Speed and TD can also play havoc with snipers. Armor tank fits well with the armor logi fleets that are so popular these days.
 Originally by: CCP Masterplan
"I'm cruel because I love you."
|
Fastbikkel
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 09:18:00 -
[3]
I would go for a nano (kind of) set.
Your speed is your helping hand.
Armor only adds to weight, but you don't need that once you need to get away.
Even with all the added armor, you are not safer, it just takes an enemy a bit longer to destroy your beautiful curse.
Im no curse expert, but i say shield/nano set is the way forward.
-If the enemy is in range, so are you- |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 09:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chekov Nikahd
This is the general Curse fit I was thinking of using.
I'm just wondering if an armor tanked Curse is viable - it seems that most people use shield tanked outfits. That, and are energy turrets worth using instead of the typical missile launchers?
That fit is okay for an Armor HAC gang (if you replace the MWD with an AB that is).
The reason people use the shield fit more often is 3 fold:
1. The Curse has A LOT of mid slots... enough to put up a very nice large shield buffer which is (dare I say it) almost better than the armor buffer version (the downsides are that your resistances are horribly uneven with the shield setup, your sig radius is large, and you give up using utility).
2. It's fast. Speed is critical as once people notice you are on field you will be called primary. That speed can mean the difference between GTFOing or dying a fiery (and expensive) death.
3. You can fit Power Diagnostic Systems in your lows which increase your cap, cap recharge, shield hp, and shield recharge. All those bonuses mean that a Curse can keep doing what it does best for longer periods of time.
With DPS... most of it should be coming from your drones. Your highs should, more or less, be dedicated to the ship's specialty. This is not to say that you should NEVER fit weapons in the highs... but it should be more of an afterthought (i.e. do I REALLY need it?) than anything else.
_______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Chekov Nikahd
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 13:17:00 -
[5]
Well, the big reason I wanted to shy away from missiles and shield tanking is because of skills. I don't have a lot of skills and to save some time, I want to stay focused on armor tanking/energy weapons because it's in-line with skills I've already set to train for other ships along the way.
|
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 13:26:00 -
[6]
My take, seems similar but all medium neuts/nos. Primarily for w-space backup. Just needs Recon 4 and a 3% PG implant:
[Curse, Pew atm]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Egress Port Maximizer I
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Feel free to swap the drones, atm I might actually have Valks, 600s, medium armour rep bots. |
Chekov Nikahd
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 13:38:00 -
[7]
Speaking of drones - does it really matter much which race type you use?
I really like the look of the Amarr drones, but it seems like the Gallente ones do the most damage. [Do they have tracking issues as a downside?]
|
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 13:47:00 -
[8]
Gal ones for dps, most favour Min ones for their speed, and you'll be at range, or wanting to pwn tackling frigs with Warriors. Only use the others if you know the (usually pve fit) tank of a specific target and even then IIRC the dps of the Gal ones outways the difference. |
rodensteiner
Amarr
Shioshi
Capital Storm
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 15:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chekov Nikahd
Speaking of drones - does it really matter much which race type you use?
I really like the look of the Amarr drones, but it seems like the Gallente ones do the most damage. [Do they have tracking issues as a downside?]
Since you seem to prefer armor tanking, have you considered the Pilgrim? It is still a neut/drone boat, but armor tanks. And warps cloaked. Completely different flying style to a Curse, however.
When it comes to drone selection, you want to keep damage types in mind. Warriors and Valks are popular because they do good damage, track well, and are fast. They do explosive damage, so good against armor tanked Minmatar and Gallente ships, as well as T1 armor tanked Amarr ships, I'd say.
Hobgoblins and Hammerheads are the highest damage-dealing ones, but they are slower than the Matari drones. They thermal damage, I believe.
The Caldari drones I don't think many people use as they do kinetic damage, which isn't the best choice for most ships. However, the ECM drones (EC-300, 600, etc.) are Caldari.
The Amarrian drones can be good against T1 shield tanks as they do EM damage, and a T1 shield tank will usually have a very low EM resist.
So what I'm trying to say is, make your drone selection based on what you think you might encounter. The drones I use most frequently are Warrior II's (against fast frigates) Hobgoblin II's (for slower frigates) Valkryie II's (against larger ships that are still quick and/or have low explosive resistance) and Hammerhead II's (for larger/slower ships where I just want as much damage as possible)
Then, of course, most people will carry some ECM drones. I prefer not to, but that's just my playstyle.
Hope that helps a little!
_____________________________________________
I'm horrible at PVP |
Chekov Nikahd
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 23:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: rodensteiner
Since you seem to prefer armor tanking, have you considered the Pilgrim? It is still a neut/drone boat, but armor tanks. And warps cloaked. Completely different flying style to a Curse, however.
Yeah, I've been looking at it too.
So I guess, if I wanted to do solo-pvp and armor tank, the best option would be a Pilgrim? While an armor tanked Curse would be better off in fleet engagements?
|
Cartheron Crust
Spais Of The Federation
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cartheron Crust on 22/12/2010 01:01:40
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Gal ones for dps, most favour Min ones for their speed, and you'll be at range, or wanting to pwn tackling frigs with Warriors. Only use the others if you know the (usually pve fit) tank of a specific target and even then IIRC the dps of the Gal ones outways the difference.
This is the one time I have found a use for Amarr drones. Drakes/Ravens/Ishtars etc doing missions that are shield tanked and tanking kinetic/thermic damage. They have 0% em resist (still only 12.5% if they use a dc) as opposed to what will be their stupidly high kinetic/thermic and still respectable explosive resist. |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:32:00 -
[12]
It's very viable as it frees mid slots for Tracking Disruptor(s) but it's not the most popular because of agility issues of armor tanking... The nano+shield variant is far more speedy and mobility is a very valuable asset. Secondly, TDs are 100% ineffective against missile and/or pure drone boats. I guess that's why people tend to leave them home altogether. I don't. Im all for the armored variant. Once you are in a situation where the extra agility of the nano+shield setup will actually help ya, you already messed up more or less so it does not matter in the end. Dropping neuts for missiles sure will provide that much more DPS that can't really be killed (unlike drones) but that's not much DPS in itself. I could bet a flippin' Caracal can out DPS such a Curse.
With a pair of reasonably skilled up TD you can scram 220mm Vulcan's range with Barrage loaded below 6km including falloff or debuff their tracking down to 720mm Howitzer's level.
That is no slouch in itself.
The full rack of neuts as proposed, assuming Recon V, nuke 1512 capacitor units every 12 seconds. The mediums will reach all the way out to 37..38km slice while the smalls will do almost 19km. This is some mean neutralizing power. Your target's capacitor will dry out very soon. At best, it will completely shut down his ship (laser and hybrid boats) at worst, he will lose ability to tackle at all and his propulsion mod is now dead weight.
In comes to this: f you want a shield tanked missile boat, why the heck taking out a Curse at all? It got no bonus to any of that and it suck at both. 
Drones are whatever the ones you want. Toy with them and go with what fit best for whatever you wanna do.
BTW forget about the egress port thingamabob. It's no good. A pair of semiconductor memory cell will serve you _far_ better. It will solve all long warp issues and provide a far beefier capacitor to run all you need to run. 800s charges will be far easier to manage too. Only use the ancillary rig if you need it. Think about using PG2 or PG4 implants instead as they work on all the ships while rigs are stuck on one ship forever.
The following statement is not my signature.
The preceding statement is my signature. |
Chekov Nikahd
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 08:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sphit Ker
BTW forget about the egress port thingamabob. It's no good. A pair of semiconductor memory cell will serve you _far_ better. It will solve all long warp issues and provide a far beefier capacitor to run all you need to run. 800s charges will be far easier to manage too. Only use the ancillary rig if you need it. Think about using PG2 or PG4 implants instead as they work on all the ships while rigs are stuck on one ship forever.
Does the PG implant increase powergrid capacity? I've actually tweaked the design a little bit with some cheap meta 4 modules so that it comes out to exactly the PG limit.
As for the Semiconductor rig, instead of two of those, might it be better to have one and a Low Friction Nozzle Jet to increase agility? Or would you say the cost to cap and armor outweigh the benefit?
Small Neuts and MWD disabled
Small Neuts and MWD enabled
Above is the current fit with a semiconductor and nozzle jet rig. [Level 5 skills] I've got little to compare it to though. Does it stack up favorably against other Curse fits?
|
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.23 12:39:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 23/12/2010 12:41:59
It's already been said but I'll restate it. If you want to armor tank, the Pilgrim is better at it. The speed reduction from the added armor doesn't affect the Pilgrim much as it's a "sneak in + brawl close range" recon.
The Curse relies on it's range + tracking disruption + speed/agility to tank. There's no point to put an armor tank on a Curse when given it's speed without the added armor it tanks just fine. If you're too slow and can't dictate range then you will lose in a Curse.
Range dictation is also a factor in a Pilgrim however it gives up speed for being able to close the range distance fully cloaked. You'll rely on your target not being able to hit you at all in a Curse with TD, speed, and shutting down their cap. In a Pilgrim you rely on your target not being able to gtfo by scraming, webbing, and draining their cap.
The Curse is a kiter, the Pilgrim is a trapdoor spider.
As far as dps outside of drones, keep in mind you'll completely shut down their cap so your drone dps is more effective then you think. I wouldn't put anymore then 2x hvy launchers on a Curse and a Pilgrim. The other added benefit of hvy launchers being the freedom to pick any dmg type.
|
Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2010.12.23 15:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sphit Ker on 23/12/2010 15:12:30
Originally by: Chekov Nikahd
snipped
I suggested PG4 implants out of spite 'cause I do not like Meta 4 fits, for one. They tend to cost far more than Tech 2 and the supply is often limited (depending on where you hang around I guess). Also yup, they provide raw powergrid on all ships you've got. I have perfect fitting skills actual and full tech 2 setup I like to fly with just won't fit without PG4 anyway :/ At 30 mil or so a pop I can see why you'd want to toss them and use meta mods instead, tho.
I am a big fan of semiconductor rigs on Curse and Pilgrim. Their natural capacitor's capacity feels weak and these rigs fix this up just fine. Long warps are obnoxious without them, experience speaking. Starting with a full cap it start to be bothersome at 80 AU and up... then your cap ain't full for the next warp... It sucks to be forced to consume cap charges at every warps or take two of more hops while everyone else is already on top of the next gate... waiting for ya slow butt..  Finally once in combat proper, the extra beef is a really nice comfort margin to have. Semiconductors FTW.
Advices given. In the end it really is your and only your call to make. What work best for me just might not be the best for you. The only way to know what's best for you is to get out there to fly and fight, really. Learn and evolve.
The following statement is not my signature.
The preceding statement is my signature. |
Chekov Nikahd
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 00:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 23/12/2010 12:41:59
It's already been said but I'll restate it. If you want to armor tank, the Pilgrim is better at it. The speed reduction from the added armor doesn't affect the Pilgrim much as it's a "sneak in + brawl close range" recon.
The Curse relies on it's range + tracking disruption + speed/agility to tank. There's no point to put an armor tank on a Curse when given it's speed without the added armor it tanks just fine. If you're too slow and can't dictate range then you will lose in a Curse.
Well, the thing about a shield tank is that it basically means you're throwing away your tracking disruption bonus. So I guess it's more a question of whether or not the natural speed of a shield tanked curse can avoid incoming fire better than an armor tank + tracking disruptor can.
|
Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 02:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 25/12/2010 02:37:05
Originally by: Chekov Nikahd
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 23/12/2010 12:41:59
It's already been said but I'll restate it. If you want to armor tank, the Pilgrim is better at it. The speed reduction from the added armor doesn't affect the Pilgrim much as it's a "sneak in + brawl close range" recon.
The Curse relies on it's range + tracking disruption + speed/agility to tank. There's no point to put an armor tank on a Curse when given it's speed without the added armor it tanks just fine. If you're too slow and can't dictate range then you will lose in a Curse.
Well, the thing about a shield tank is that it basically means you're throwing away your tracking disruption bonus. So I guess it's more a question of whether or not the natural speed of a shield tanked curse can avoid incoming fire better than an armor tank + tracking disruptor can.
In anything but very small gangs the speed/agility will since you can only TD 2 targets (and curse if a favorite primary)
Edit: Ofc this changes if your in an armor tank fleet with Guardian support.
|
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 20:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 26/12/2010 20:32:03
You're not throwing away the TD bonus on a shield tanked Curse. A greater part of your tank on a shield Curse is the TD. You only need 1 Invuln-2 and 1-2 extenders (Large/Large+Medium).
The rest of the incoming damage is mitigated by your range, speed/agility, and disruption. The bare minimum shield tank is there only to soak up whatever damage does happen to get through those other factors.
Granted you won't be taking on a gang with a shield tank Curse. It's not outside the realm of possibilities though of being able to take on and handle a gang of 4-5 pilots depending on the situation and your kiting ability + target management. Making sure to neut out any frigate hull tacklers that get within 30km of you, extending the group while kiting and picking off those much faster or much slower then the core of the group is the plan.
In that case though it's more of a solo/duo type setup. Maybe in a roaming shield gang depending on logi but I'd expect to be primary or close to it so I'd want more buffer/range.
The armor Curse isn't a bad idea, I've tried it a few times, I just think you're really giving up too much and not taking advantage of it's bonuses by doing so.
Edit - And personally, I wouldn't put small neuts on a Curse. I prefer to keep all modules with close to similar range as possible. That also means using a Domi/DB point. You can cycle medium neuts and wipe a frig/ceptor out at range rather then rely on someone being in range for the small.
|
Chekov Nikahd
Amarr
Trader's Academy
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 02:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
Edit - And personally, I wouldn't put small neuts on a Curse. I prefer to keep all modules with close to similar range as possible. That also means using a Domi/DB point. You can cycle medium neuts and wipe a frig/ceptor out at range rather then rely on someone being in range for the small.
What would you propose instead of the small neuts? Additional mediums? Missiles? The small neuts on the fit seemed to be a backup "just in case a frig gets too close" type of thing, but I'm not familiar with how well medium neuts would work at short range. [Like I said, I'm a noob.]
PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 02:58:00 -
[20]
Small neuts have the shortest cycle time. It is 6 seconds. Mediums have 12 second cycles and heavies are 24 which is far too long to keep the capacitor effectively dry. 24 seconds is well time to recoup enough cap to get at least some things back on such as tackling gear. 12 seconds can be short enough some times but you can never be sure (as in he is a cap recharger happy guy).
All neuts are equally effective on all ships per se. They take away a set amount of cap per cycle and thats it.
In short, use heavies or mediums to actually nuke the cap and small(s) to keep it dry.
The following statement is not my signature.
The preceding statement is my signature. |
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 28/12/2010 04:21:35
Like I said, if it the frig scenario you're concerned with, 1 medium neut cycle is enough to shut them down before they get within tackling range. You won't be sitting idly still, you'd be kiting, so shutting them down will give you alot more distance from them as their mwd/ab will be off and you can focus on others until they recoup cap and gain ground again.
I'd put heavy missiles in their place. 1 medium nos isn't a bad idea either as nos/neuts work very well together and nos takes nothing to run but will give you cap and take theirs once your cap is below theirs. Nos is there to counter cap boosters basically. They boost, have more cap then you, the nos cycles, and you have effectively stolen their cap boost.
Edit - And there's no range effect on neuts. They're either in range or not, proximity won't make the neuts take more or less. You don't want to get scrammed so the idea is to cap out any possible tacklers befre they get within 25+km with a medium neut cycle. This means alot more target management but properly done you can handle a small group. I could see having 1 small neut on a Pilgrim since you're so close but the Curse's strength lies in it's range.
And I personally wouldn't use Egress, use CCC in their place.
|
Chekov Nikahd
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
I'd put heavy missiles in their place. 1 medium nos isn't a bad idea either as nos/neuts work very well together and nos takes nothing to run but will give you cap and take theirs once your cap is below theirs. Nos is there to counter cap boosters basically. They boost, have more cap then you, the nos cycles, and you have effectively stolen their cap boost.
Well that gives me some ideas. Although I wanted to keep away from missiles for the time being as it requires a large fraction of time to skill them up from where I am currently. [That is to say, I have no missile skills at all...]
PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA
- For the bold, to the stars
|
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 28/12/2010 04:25:05
You don't need superb missile skills. A few arby launchers with some faction heavys works just as well. It's just added dps to compliment the drones.
You'll eventually want missile skills for other ships, it won't take much to make them useable.
|
Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 05:00:00 -
[24]
Missile launchers should never be on a Curse
Trading two incredibly powerful ship bonuses for unbonused missile damage is really stupid It gets to be absolutely comedy fit if you are flying a gang. You have an entire gang to do DPS and you are the only ship with those two neut bonuses.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Chekov Nikahd
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 09:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Missile launchers should never be on a Curse
Trading two incredibly powerful ship bonuses for unbonused missile damage is really stupid It gets to be absolutely comedy fit if you are flying a gang. You have an entire gang to do DPS and you are the only ship with those two neut bonuses.
I suppose you wouldn't be in favor of any weapons on the Curse then? What do you prefer to have in your highslots, or rather, what would you suggest instead of the two small neuts?
Also, I've been doing some EFT-warrioring, and a shield-tanked curse isn't really much faster or more agile than an armor tanked curse at first glance. [I must be missing something] It's a difference of about 1-second align time and ~200m/s speed with an MWD active, and the align time can be offset by a single cheap astrometrics rig, while still leaving a good 30 seconds or so on the cap running all the equipment.
PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA
- For the bold, to the stars
|
Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 11:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chekov Nikahd
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Missile launchers should never be on a Curse
Trading two incredibly powerful ship bonuses for unbonused missile damage is really stupid It gets to be absolutely comedy fit if you are flying a gang. You have an entire gang to do DPS and you are the only ship with those two neut bonuses.
I suppose you wouldn't be in favor of any weapons on the Curse then? What do you prefer to have in your highslots, or rather, what would you suggest instead of the two small neuts?
Also, I've been doing some EFT-warrioring, and a shield-tanked curse isn't really much faster or more agile than an armor tanked curse at first glance. [I must be missing something] It's a difference of about 1-second align time and ~200m/s speed with an MWD active, and the align time can be offset by a single cheap astrometrics rig, while still leaving a good 30 seconds or so on the cap running all the equipment.
As many mediums are you can fit, then smalls after that.
Make sure to fit nanofibers to your Curse, fit 1-2 of them and you should see a noticeable difference in the stats.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Maama
|
Posted - 2010.12.28 18:37:00 -
[27]
Spectre Wraith, you seem to know what you're taking about... any chance you can post your fitting ? (solo and gang)
thanks in advance
|
Izuru Hishido
Amarr
Lethal Dosage.
Violent Society
|
Posted - 2010.12.29 06:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Izuru Hishido on 29/12/2010 06:52:16
Frankly, that first fit looks just fine to me. I'd take one neut off and put a Nos on, but ultimately, either works. Just pick your targets well, stay away from missile boats and other recons and you'll be peachy.
Don't use guns or missiles on a curse. They're there to neut the target's cap to null, so why waste the CPU/PG for a missile launcher just to do a fraction more DPS? Anyway, as for you other question. Armor tanked curses are perfectly viable, its just that most people like using a shield tank because it doesn't increase the ship's mass. Armor tanking is fine though, since the days of the nano curse are long gone, so its just trial and error until you find a fit you like most and you're set.
"The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his." |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |