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EVE risks losing customers (and perhaps already has)

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Eidas	Posted - 2003.06.30 02:56:00 - [1] It is my belief that the conduct of some EVE players may well result in the loss of customers and revenue for CCP. I have no qualms about a game with no 'safety net', in fact if enriches the experience, but given that this is meant to be a atmospheric game of some depth, I feel that some players are missing the point and are detrimental to the whole experience to the extent that they should be removed. I had my first experience of PC pirates today, well two experiences in fact; Having just picked up my new cruiser which I had worked for 3 weeks (since beginning my subscription) to afford, I was returning to my home station to get it insured and equipped when it was destroyed and I was podkilled in under 5 seconds. There was no provocation, no warning and no reason for the attack. No "drop your cargo or die" ultimatum and no opportunity to negotiate. I was no threat and he stood to gain nothing from it, I wasn't even a challenge. After composing myself following this massive setback I fell back on doing some fairly routine mining in an attempt to get back on my feet (which is going to be a long and slow process). En route to my dig site of choice, I was warp-scrambled by another pirate who contacted me and gave me 10 seconds to shut down all engines. I had the opportunity to explain that I simply did not have the funds to pay what he was demanding and I asked if there was a way we could come to an amicable solution (I could not afford the loss of another ship). He chose to let me go. I was so grateful I had to be talked out of sending him some money anyway, just for not being another ignorant kill-happy idiot. No doubt I will meet him again and he won't be so generous, hopefully I will have some more money by then. To me, that was the right way of doing things - he is generating his income by waylaying traders/miners without destroying their enjoyment. If he had also indiscriminately killed me, there is every likelyhood I would have cancelled my subscription on the spot. As it is, I am not sure I have the patience to go through the entire fund-raising process again. I don't want to cancel, as I believe that the environment that EVE provides is unique and incredibly well thought out. But I do think that players like the first example should be banned from the server. The loss of that one player will be far less detrimental to the EVE universe than the loss of the 50 people he drives away from the game. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov
Damon Vile	Posted - 2003.06.30 03:05:00 - [2] No I don't think they should be banned. Hunted and podded till he crys on the forums yes :) BTW mining is the worst way to make money. More so if you work alone. Hippey made a good post, I think it was called newbs read this!!! gives alot of good hints on how to make money faster.
Eidas	Posted - 2003.06.30 03:12:00 - [3] The majority of players who are the victims of unwarranted podkilling of the kind mentioned above are rarely in a position to hunt and kill the aggressors. My point is simply that that sort of behaviour WILL drive away a portion of the potential population of the game server. I appreciate your advice, but mining hasn't been the only way I was making money. I work within a corporation (and organise multi-corporation ventures) but given that I'd just lost everything I'd worked for I wasn't really feeling to enthused at doing anything, I was shell-shocked and just needed to do something, anything that was productive. Edited by: Eidas on 30/06/2003 03:15:39 Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov
Molly	Posted - 2003.06.30 03:13:00 - [4] Eidas, give it a try. I hope the security in Empire Space is going to be stronger soon. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Red Istar	Posted - 2003.06.30 03:14:00 - [5] A word of the wise: Don't even drive around a cruiser you have been working for three weeks to get without insurance. It is truly your loss. By the way, you should consider joining a worthwhile corporation so you don't have to grieve alone. Usually a good corporation has the funds and supplies to replace a ship in no time. This is the PC pirates' way of life in the EVE universe. Although some of them are out of line, without the pirates in general, my fun would be spoiled- I wouldn't get to kill them! =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Do not trust to hope. It is forsaken these lands.
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.06.30 03:34:00 - [6] IT sucks, but you can always avoid the typical M0o-type nonchalant podkill. It has to do with knowing where you are warping, paying attention when you come out of warp, etc. Stay alert and on your feet and you won't fall prey to that tiresome trap.
Cachorro Louco	Posted - 2003.06.30 04:09:00 - [7] I ran into my first PC pirate today also. In fact I ran into two of em camping a gate. I should have paid attention. I thought I had checked the map for player ships destroyed. Guess I need new glasses. Well, about these two gate campers I ran into. One was a blackbird, not sure what the other was. I got webbed. That was their first mistake. They should have just let me by. By webbing me it just let me do more damage to em. Their second mistake was to web me a second time after the first wore off. In fact I killed the blackbird and got the other down to a half filled target indicator (by the way what does that signify?). When I got to the gate I jumped out. Partly because I had about 6 or 7 torpedos on my ass and I was all a flutter because this was my first PvP engagement. It erks me they didn't even ask me for anything in local after they webbed me and started shooting. I ALWAYS have local on when traveling. If your going to do the pirate crap check your target for what he has on em and at least ask for something before you start shooting. Why did I tell this story for the first poster. Well it's because: 1. If your going to ride a cruiser have the weapons and defensive equipment to protect yourself. 2. Have the skills to use those equipment. Edited by: Cachorro Louco on 30/06/2003 04:12:19 Mad Dog says: Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site.
Damon Vile	Posted - 2003.06.30 04:12:00 - [8] I hear what you're saying though. Eve was suppost to be about PvP and big corp wars not a bunch of bored kids ganking ppl wile there're lagged or better yet link dead. Watching so many of my friends log off never to return makes we wonder how long can a game keep going with nothing to do but mine and shoot NPCs to build the next ship in line :/ Moo has every right to sit at a gate and kill ppl, it's part of the game...but CCP is going to lose alot of money because of it
Magallen	Posted - 2003.06.30 04:27:00 - [9] Always have a safety net ready to catch you when you fall and fall you will. It takes money to make money, so don't put all your money into one spot that is in a position to be lost by a mistake or bad fortune. Once you have purchased your nice cruiser you should have used it as a suped up miner. Mine 2x the mineral cost of your cruiser. With 4 miners 1 at work this won't take as long as you might imagine it to be. This way when you lost your cruiser you can get a BYOM deal and get yourself a new cruiser with the minerals you stored. Also have lot's of ISK that you won't spend or in other words seed money. When you suffer a huge lost use this seed money to rebuild your fortune. This is a hell of a lot quicker then starting from scratch in a newbie frigate with 1 isk in the bank. With these two safety nets you would get a cruiser at no cost (BYOM Deal) and have 5 million or more ISK to outfit your new cruiser. Then build a new safety net and once you have recovered what you lost you can start taking chances again. Avoid the temptation to squander your reserves on your goal that's just around the corner. Wait till you built a safety net then you can accomplish whatever goal it was you had in mind.
Setec	Posted - 2003.06.30 05:07:00 - [10] I think both types of piracy are valid. Personally I'm the highwayman type--civil robbery, letting people pass for a fee, but using force if the try any funny business. But the other type are also an interesting part of the Eve world. I think the #1 rule to play by in this game is to never leave a station with anything you can't afford to lose. If you spent all your earnings from 3 weeks on a cruiser and you were left nearly broke when you lost it, you made a mistake. You bought it too soon. Move up to the next level of technology not when you can afford it, but when you can afford to lose it. The patience pays off and no loss is a serious setback. Also, check local, always be alert in low security space, etc. Always check the pods/ships destroyed maps for systems you'll be passing through to figure out where you might enounter trouble. There are lots of ways to be cautious to keep yourself from getting nailed. ___________________________________________ Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.06.30 05:45:00 - [11] Half-filled target indicator: Left half fills with red first, then 2nd half fills. When both are filled, ship explodes. Left half depicts target's shield strength. Right half depicts target's armor and structure. Edited by: Vacuole on 30/06/2003 05:46:30
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.06.30 05:56:00 - [12] that explans why my lasers get the first half down quickly and the second half down not-as-quickly! Bloody armour/hull EM protection. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Sara Kerrigan	Posted - 2003.06.30 06:52:00 - [13] I agree with one thing you said--there are too many ill-mannered pirates out there. Granted, M0o has thus far (to me) kept their word on not shooting me anytime I pay their toll, but they're not very good at keeping their non-aggression packs for more than a few hours (when they get more ships around). Spectral Armada ships, on two occasions thus far, have opened fire and destroyed my ships AFTER accepting the gate toll. That = no thx. But banning isn't the solution. Nor is big CONCORD raids and stake-outs. The solution lies in the players themselves. Big corps need to start taking more action not just for their own benefits, but for the benefit of newer players. RUS is looking like a prime example of that atm (from what i've heard second hand, about their encounters with m0o recently). If several major corps banded together and mapped out protection territories for each, they could have much of empire space safe once again. ______________ The Kerrigan Chronicles
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2003.06.30 09:24:00 - [14] More effort to punish these guys need to be put in, you don't see a guy on Cops getting the lone female cop going in there armed only with a bad attitude... Lock 10 battleships on every one of these ******* all day long till they are podkilled at least once. Shooting people up just 'cause you can isn't what this game should be about, if it were it'd be a FPS with battleships going for an isk and a yawn. Convert Stations
Auction Man	Posted - 2003.06.30 10:30:00 - [15] I'm in a tiny corp. Its just 2 friends and me. I had a similar encounter and lost my cruiser. Without the benefits of a big corp it took me a while to get back on my feet. I am almost there. A friend of mine had a run into Moo, he had just bought a cruiser and was on his trip to pick it up. He was on a shuttle, was killed in seconds and poded. Piracy? This is not piracy, this is serial murder. Some would call it griefing. There is nothing for the attacker here, no loot, no money, no status, only perhaps that kind of wicked satisfaction kids have when killing ants... I have the power and you don't. But this is something every MMORPG has faced... and if there was an easy solution it would be implemented by now.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2003.06.30 10:32:00 - [16] There is, as mentioned right there, GM designated NPC hitters griefing these punks to death and beyond. make it newsworthy too so we all can have a good laugh. Convert Stations
Andrea Jade	Posted - 2003.06.30 10:59:00 - [17] The only thing which really works, is joining a large corp. I mean Everlasting is 140 members and we have our own insurance policies so even if i was taken down by pirates i could get my thorax back in less than a couple of hours. So the only real way to avoid all the grief is to join a corp and work hard to make it powerfull. Ev rarely gets messed with by pirates just due to our sheer size. I can see how losing your cruiser like that would suck so much, but there is not alot you can do as it is part of the game. I dont like mOo but they are suceeding in their mission; to be feared. They crave nothing else other than to have people crap themselves when they jump into a system. So anyway join a large corp and you will avoid all that crap -AJ-
Eidas	Posted - 2003.06.30 13:31:00 - [18] I would be a shame to lose the diversity that having small corporations and independent pilots brings to the game, if several large corporations have been established, that's great but for any new players joining they may want to experience the day-to-day running of their own corporation. The experience will become stale very quickly if the balance swings so hugely in favour of those that got onto the server first. But thank you all for the input, one of the things that attracted me to this game was the realistic 'harshness' of the world. I wrote the original post shortly after my loss and had a huge downer on the game, but I realise it was the result of my naivety and lack of planning. The real world is full of killers, idiots and those who make others suffer for fun (I should know, I have to work with them). Today is another day. I have learnt my lesson and will take it on the chin. I don't think that this is a problem that should need to be solved by the developers, but one that should be dealt with by the games playing community. I'll chalk it up as experience and come up fighting. See you in the clone vats. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov
Silmaril	Posted - 2003.06.30 13:37:00 - [19] Amen to that Eidas "Do not waste your tears. I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men."
Hasek Caldari-Raata Heavy Metals The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.15 14:48:00 - [20] i just thought id bump this back up, since everyones whining about CCP and how everyones gonna leave the game.... i thought everyone could use a reality check from when i was a noob
Bakhal Yttrites Minmatar When The Children Sing	Posted - 2007.09.15 15:15:00 - [21] But-- but-- but-- Damn, I guess there is such a good thing as a good necro
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.09.15 15:20:00 - [22] You win multiple Well done!
PCaBoo Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2007.09.15 15:24:00 - [23] People like to do what they want to do. Chances are, if you're going to quit over being blown up (with or without reason), you're going to quit eventually anyway. I think CCP would rather have 200,000 loyal customers than 250,000 that are going to quit everytime something bad happens to them. ________________________________ I hate you, too.
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.09.15 15:42:00 - [24] Interesting necro... Originally by: Danton Marcellus More effort to punish these guys need to be put in, you don't see a guy on Cops getting the lone female cop going in there armed only with a bad attitude... Lock 10 battleships on every one of these ***** all day long till they are podkilled at least once. Shooting people up just 'cause you can isn't what this game should be about, if it were it'd be a FPS with battleships going for an isk and a yawn. hehehe... Originally by:** Cipher7 If you manage to get baited, what's your skill, being a good victim?
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.09.15 15:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Eidas It is my belief that the conduct of some EVE players may well result in the loss of customers and revenue for CCP. I have no qualms about a game with no 'safety net', in fact if enriches the experience, but given that this is meant to be a atmospheric game of some depth, I feel that some players are missing the point and are detrimental to the whole experience to the extent that they should be removed. I had my first experience of PC pirates today, well two experiences in fact; Having just picked up my new cruiser which I had worked for 3 weeks (since beginning my subscription) to afford, I was returning to my home station to get it insured and equipped when it was destroyed and I was podkilled in under 5 seconds. There was no provocation, no warning and no reason for the attack. No "drop your cargo or die" ultimatum and no opportunity to negotiate. I was no threat and he stood to gain nothing from it, I wasn't even a challenge. After composing myself following this massive setback I fell back on doing some fairly routine mining in an attempt to get back on my feet (which is going to be a long and slow process). En route to my dig site of choice, I was warp-scrambled by another pirate who contacted me and gave me 10 seconds to shut down all engines. I had the opportunity to explain that I simply did not have the funds to pay what he was demanding and I asked if there was a way we could come to an amicable solution (I could not afford the loss of another ship). He chose to let me go. I was so grateful I had to be talked out of sending him some money anyway, just for not being another ignorant kill-happy idiot. No doubt I will meet him again and he won't be so generous, hopefully I will have some more money by then. To me, that was the right way of doing things - he is generating his income by waylaying traders/miners without destroying their enjoyment. If he had also indiscriminately killed me, there is every likelyhood I would have cancelled my subscription on the spot. As it is, I am not sure I have the patience to go through the entire fund-raising process again. I don't want to cancel, as I believe that the environment that EVE provides is unique and incredibly well thought out. But I do think that players like the first example should be banned from the server. The loss of that one player will be far less detrimental to the EVE universe than the loss of the 50 people he drives away from the game.
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.09.15 16:07:00 - [26] The portion that it drives away, doesn't have what it takes to make it in EVE, and we didn't want them anyway. Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.09.15 16:09:00 - [27] O you horrible horrible necro. Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2007.09.15 17:55:00 - [28] lets paraphrase "I was in low sec as a noob, i could not afford to loose what i was flying, and some bad mean people killed my ship and my pod." no they dont need banned from the game, noobs that ignore the warning you get when heading into low sec then blame the pirates for killing you need to be banned. YOU made the choice to go into low sec, YOU knew or you should have known there are thrill killer wannabe pirate noobs and others that will kill anything for any reason just to get a kill mail, YOU could not afford to replace your ship, YOU bought a cruiser in low sec and had to pick it up. YOU had 0 tank on your shiny new cruiser to fly it through low sec you probably had 0 warp cores stabs on it. Now who's fault is it really?
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 15/09/2007 18:03:42 and birds go tweet....(4 years later!!!! and EVE is still growing... so..we are fine...) and yes... time to exorsize this thread.. come on forum mod.... let see the lock stick. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:21:00 - [30] Funny how few people look at the date or read the entire post with replies, before they reply themselves ^^

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