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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.30 21:00:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: ArtOfScience
I like to feel like I am flying a ship in combat. I like the cat and mouse game of keeping things at range and of coming up with tricks on how to lower transversal. I like thinking about transversal and planning out the order I'm going to kill things as I target them from 100km away. I don't need the immediate gratification of autocannon when I find the deep THUD of arty a beautiful sound and I love seeing a Battleship sized shield decimated in one volley. I like my setup. To me the things that annoy people about turret weapons make the game more fun to me because it gives me the feeling of actually piloting the ship.
I think you would love a machariel or vargur they are both like a mael times awesome plus a can of woop ass
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.12.31 11:46:00 -
[32]
The Maelstrom suffers for missions from the lack of a fall-off bonus, which forces it to use artillery. It's not terrible, but it's a tough sell over a Raven, which does very nearly as much raw peak dps (fury cruise vs. faction short range projectiles) and applies it much more effectively at close or long range.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.31 17:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
The Maelstrom suffers for missions from the lack of a fall-off bonus, which forces it to use artillery. It's not terrible, but it's a tough sell over a Raven, which does very nearly as much raw peak dps (fury cruise vs. faction short range projectiles) and applies it much more effectively at close or long range.
Don't use artillery. Problem solved. No way a Raven can compete with an autocannon Maelstrom under 30km distance. Do what I do: fly a Mael with a Raven alt to snipe the far-off stuff.
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Lygos
Amarr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.01.01 07:34:00 -
[34]
If rep bonuses don't apply to remote reps, then those ships are not competitive in the area of tanking for either PVE or RR fleets. Resistance tanks offer the benefit of efficiency.
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Articio > Well, at least I don't have to grind back security status.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.01 07:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
The Maelstrom suffers for missions from the lack of a fall-off bonus, which forces it to use artillery. It's not terrible, but it's a tough sell over a Raven, which does very nearly as much raw peak dps (fury cruise vs. faction short range projectiles) and applies it much more effectively at close or long range.
Don't use artillery. Problem solved. No way a Raven can compete with an autocannon Maelstrom under 30km distance. Do what I do: fly a Mael with a Raven alt to snipe the far-off stuff.
under 30km distance is a pretty rough limitation for a pve ship
and if I am bringing 2 ships to a mission I want both to be as effective as possible. ac mael is well,  it is great if you are pulling angels and mercs all the time, but lots of missions are well outside 30km most of the time.
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F0rum Tr0ll
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.01 08:30:00 -
[36]
Caldari wins Pve cause :
Noob friendly skill train, Drake
drake can pvp in 0.0 in draketrain/logi fleets.
selectable damage types << big deal if you move regions at all.
That said I hate missiles. Lazorz ftw!
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They see me trollin... |
Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2011.01.01 14:13:00 -
[37]
Bottom line is missle boats like the raven and drake are easy to fly and require almost no pilot skill whatsoever, hence why they are so popular, plus most missioners are caldari at the start.
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Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2011.01.01 20:39:00 -
[38]
At all L5 / no implants / T1 ammo, OP's Maelstrom dishes out ~525 DPS, tanks ~225 mission specific DPS, and can lock 7 targets. The Maelstrom is using faction mods.
At all L5 / no implants / T1 ammo, my Raven deals out ~610 DPS, tanks ~245 mission specific DPS, and can lock 9 targets. The Raven is not using faction mods. Look at Liang Nuren's cap boosted Raven, we have the same damage mods but different approaches to tank.
On paper the Raven proves itself a sliver better mission runner. Off paper the arti Maelstrom can't hit anything in a close orbit. It does have the alpha to one-shot a lot of ships the Raven can't. It'd be a hit or miss how well the Maelstrom does with SP being a huge factor.
Something else to mention, the Tempest with 1400s under the same fit/skills/implants has double the alpha and more DPS. It also has two extra highs which can fit anything from nos to rr to standard missile launchers to help the drones out. Of course to fit 1400s and all that requires a 1% PG implant.
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Trracer
Interstellar Assembly Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.03 10:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 30/12/2010 00:33:49
Originally by: ArtOfScience
I'm not saying that Mael is the best ship ever made I'm saying that it needs to be included in the list of competent career mission running ships and I get sad seeing so little attention paid to it.
Here's what amazes me: you think you love the Mael now, and you're still flying yesteryear's crappy-ass artillery model. Wait until you try an autocannon Maelstrom. This brawler eats NPC battleships for breakfast, and snorts up the frigates and cruisers for a light snack. You'll never want to go back to FIRE zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz FIRE zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... again.
I approve of this fit, it works well for me. I also have a 2nd account with my "backup" gallente carrier pilot in a navy domi that can do remote shield reps and drones (500sp in gunnery ftw). I just let her tag along with my mael, orbiting at 1Km doing her shield transfer thing when needed.
Either you are for or against us, there simply is no other way |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.03 11:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
At all L5 / no implants / T1 ammo, OP's Maelstrom dishes out ~525 DPS, tanks ~225 mission specific DPS, and can lock 7 targets. The Maelstrom is using faction mods.
At all L5 / no implants / T1 ammo, my Raven deals out ~610 DPS, tanks ~245 mission specific DPS, and can lock 9 targets. The Raven is not using faction mods. Look at Liang Nuren's cap boosted Raven, we have the same damage mods but different approaches to tank.
On paper the Raven proves itself a sliver better mission runner. Off paper the arti Maelstrom can't hit anything in a close orbit. It does have the alpha to one-shot a lot of ships the Raven can't. It'd be a hit or miss how well the Maelstrom does with SP being a huge factor.
Something else to mention, the Tempest with 1400s under the same fit/skills/implants has double the alpha and more DPS. It also has two extra highs which can fit anything from nos to rr to standard missile launchers to help the drones out. Of course to fit 1400s and all that requires a 1% PG implant.
I'm looking at the arty mael in eft, and well it can out tank and out dps the CNR. the ac mael out dps's the cnr even more. this of course comes with issues such as tracking, or range.
I'd say most of the issues would come with player skill, and using the right ship for the mission.
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2011.01.03 17:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
The Maelstrom suffers for missions from the lack of a fall-off bonus, which forces it to use artillery. It's not terrible, but it's a tough sell over a Raven, which does very nearly as much raw peak dps (fury cruise vs. faction short range projectiles) and applies it much more effectively at close or long range.
Don't use artillery. Problem solved. No way a Raven can compete with an autocannon Maelstrom under 30km distance. Do what I do: fly a Mael with a Raven alt to snipe the far-off stuff.
An auto-Maelstrom is extremely situational, because its damage quickly falls-off to terrible, and it's a very slow ship. There's no such thing as a poor man's Mach/Varg (just like there's no such thing as a poor man's Golem), but if there were it would be the Tempest, which is actually capable of closing range.
If you want to bring up the short-range / long-range tandem idea, you could do the same thing more effectively with a torp Raven (have the cruise raven tank, so the torp raven needs only a small tank and several TPs). Or, run two separate missions in solo-boats for more isk.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2011.01.03 17:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/01/2011 17:38:02
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
An auto-Maelstrom is extremely situational, because its damage quickly falls-off to terrible, and it's a very slow ship. There's no such thing as a poor man's Mach/Varg (just like there's no such thing as a poor man's Golem), but if there were it would be the Tempest, which is actually capable of closing range.
^^ See that guy? He knows what he's talking about. The Maelstrom is a fine ship, but its definitely not going to replace the Raven as the king of T1 BS mission running. The falloff is too low, even when you try to push it. And the Arty Maelstrom has pretty significant tracking issues.
Just get a Vargur or Mach. Much better.
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Zanes Shoubje
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Posted - 2011.01.03 21:38:00 -
[43]
Been flying a auto cannon Meal together with me in a sentry Ishtar. Works like charm. Also I used the skill point gift thingy to put Minnie BS to 5 and leave just 4 days for large projectiles.\o/
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.03 23:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/01/2011 17:38:02
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
An auto-Maelstrom is extremely situational, because its damage quickly falls-off to terrible, and it's a very slow ship. There's no such thing as a poor man's Mach/Varg (just like there's no such thing as a poor man's Golem), but if there were it would be the Tempest, which is actually capable of closing range.
^^ See that guy? He knows what he's talking about. The Maelstrom is a fine ship, but its definitely not going to replace the Raven as the king of T1 BS mission running. The falloff is too low, even when you try to push it. And the Arty Maelstrom has pretty significant tracking issues.
Just get a Vargur or Mach. Much better.
-Liang
if I remember correctly before the ac-awesomeness patch the varg would get 65km falloff with 2x ambit IIs and barrage, the ac mael can do that (a bit more actually) with tracking mods, and awesome dps with a t2 rof rig and 3x gyros.
again with tracking mods the arty mael can get similar tracking to tachyons and I don't have tracking issues with them.
of course a varg/mach would be better, but the mael is looking pretty damn good.
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Liang Nuren
^^ See that guy? He knows what he's talking about. The Maelstrom is a fine ship, but its definitely not going to replace the Raven as the king of T1 BS mission running. The falloff is too low, even when you try to push it. And the Arty Maelstrom has pretty significant tracking issues.
Just get a Vargur or Mach. Much better.
-Liang
if I remember correctly before the ac-awesomeness patch the varg would get 65km falloff with 2x ambit IIs and barrage, the ac mael can do that (a bit more actually) with tracking mods, and awesome dps with a t2 rof rig and 3x gyros.
again with tracking mods the arty mael can get similar tracking to tachyons and I don't have tracking issues with them.
of course a varg/mach would be better, but the mael is looking pretty damn good.
Liang and the other guy are spot on with this one. The Mael is a nice ship, and it has a godly tank, but its damage application is mediocre at best. Arties have serious tracking issues, and if you run AC's for higher damage, you're basically limited to Damsel/Angel missions, because you won't do much damage past 30km. That's including 2x TE in the lows and an ambit rig. The falloff just drops your damage too quickly.
I've flown an AC/Arty Mael almost exclusively for missions, and recently upgraded to the Varg. The 50% falloff bonus and non-brickness makes a huge difference for completion time. I still have my Mael in the hangar, but I'll never use it again. It absolutely pales in comparison to the Varg (or Mach). And it will never surpass the Raven and relatives, since those can apply decent selectable damage to ridiculous ranges.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.05 05:55:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Isaac Apylon
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
if I remember correctly before the ac-awesomeness patch the varg would get 65km falloff with 2x ambit IIs and barrage, the ac mael can do that (a bit more actually) with tracking mods, and awesome dps with a t2 rof rig and 3x gyros.
again with tracking mods the arty mael can get similar tracking to tachyons and I don't have tracking issues with them.
of course a varg/mach would be better, but the mael is looking pretty damn good.
Liang and the other guy are spot on with this one. The Mael is a nice ship, and it has a godly tank, but its damage application is mediocre at best. Arties have serious tracking issues, and if you run AC's for higher damage, you're basically limited to Damsel/Angel missions, because you won't do much damage past 30km. That's including 2x TE in the lows and an ambit rig. The falloff just drops your damage too quickly.
I've flown an AC/Arty Mael almost exclusively for missions, and recently upgraded to the Varg. The 50% falloff bonus and non-brickness makes a huge difference for completion time. I still have my Mael in the hangar, but I'll never use it again. It absolutely pales in comparison to the Varg (or Mach). And it will never surpass the Raven and relatives, since those can apply decent selectable damage to ridiculous ranges.
you're pretty much agreeing with me.
but hey "ridiculous ranges" are pretty rare in pve, yes there are a few missions, but I'm just saying the mael is a bit more competitive than some people are giving it credit for.
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.01.05 13:59:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Isaac Apylon on 05/01/2011 13:59:14
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
you're pretty much agreeing with me.
but hey "ridiculous ranges" are pretty rare in pve, yes there are a few missions, but I'm just saying the mael is a bit more competitive than some people are giving it credit for.
Ooof, this is what I get for not reading the whole meat of the thread. I read the OP, then read this:
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
but the mael is looking pretty damn good.
and completely missed this:
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
under 30km distance is a pretty rough limitation for a pve ship
Woops.  My apologies. That said, the Mael is a good ship, but the only time it's really going to shine is Angel missions, and the occasional other close range mission (rat distance <20km). It's just not that good for anything with longer ranges.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 17:06:00 -
[48]
AC Mael is excellent for Angel Havens and ring Sanctums.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Necro Merc
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Posted - 2011.01.05 20:12:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Necro Merc on 05/01/2011 20:12:46
Originally by: ArtOfScience
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
mael is a nice, but this is the age of fat wallets. most people into projectiles drive Vargur or Mach.
I think this is a misconception popularized by these forums.
I don't see that many Mach's or Vargurs at all. I see a metric ****load of Ravens that are relatively cheap to fit and fly. Drakes that are even cheaper to fit and fly, and tengus that are expensive to fit and fly and are often used in high sec LVL 4s which simply puzzles me. TO me only reason to LVL 4 in a Tengu is to be unprobable.
I've been reading the forums and I think that a lot of older experienced players some here and that skews perception. My character is from 2006 and I fly a Mael. A Vargur is pointless to me because I prefer to salvage separately (first in a thrasher now a noctis of course) and the Machariel is definitely nice but you're looking at 1billion plus ship that in uninsurable and will be wasted without putting serious isk into faction modules.
But maybe I'm just cheap. I plan on getting a machariel one day but frankly I have my setup perfected to the point where I dont feel much like switching to an AC boat now.
At any rate it's not so much the projectile ships vs proj ships that I am commenting on as the incredible overabundance of caldari mission running ships.
Obviously a ship that costs 10 times as much as a Maelstrom will outperform it but in the realm of plain old Tier 1 battleships I don't think the Mael gets enough attention.
You are mistaken.
I recently started using Marauders for missions, and after a few days of missioning with the Golem I re-fit one of my Tengu's for lvl4 missions to use on certain missions.
I really think the Tengu is one of the quickest mission ships there are. Again it's subjective and ultimately comes down to the mission, I like the fact Golem doesn't have any specific damage bonus' wheras the Tengu only has bonus' for Kinetic damage.
So guess what I use when I do Serpentis or Guristas missions.... It aint a Golem lol. Tengu does 700dps+ to anything (apart from maybe frigates). It kills a BC in 2 volleys (4 seconds) and the same goes for Cruisers although sometimes you can 1 shot them. Battleships are short work too, and it can tank anything. You can get 3000dps active omni tank out of a Tengu. I don't think there's any other subcap that can do that in the game tbh (although that's just a guess tbh).
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