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Soldarius
Caldari
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.04 05:56:00 -
[31]
Just to throw out the correction, Covert Ops cloak does not penalize your scan resolution. It only has a base 10 second sensor recalibration. Stealth Bombers have the special ability of reducing that to 0. Other ships with covert cloak benefit from higher cloaking skills as mentioned above.
As for BO BS, some are more useful in a fight than others. Widow has the same +30% per level bonus to ECM jam strength as Rook and Falcon. So it can be used as an ECM support vessel in addition to its ability to bridge or cyno in more ships. Although, I would never pop a cyno with a BO BS. First red covert cloaky in system will bbq it.
I personally think the EWAR abilities of these ships should be strengthened (Widow excepted as it is already well endowed with ECM bonuses) so as to give the ship a better chance of survival if it gets caught, and to offer a good reason to take it into combat. Neuts for Amarr, dampening for Gallente, TP for winmatar.
Damn, can you imagine a BO BS that has enhanced TPing for the stealth bombers? That would be sick. This concept is called a "force multiplier". Designers of weapons of war should study warfare a bit more.
 Originally by: Manowar
With dreams to be a king first one should be a man.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2011.01.04 06:25:00 -
[32]
It would be pretty interesting if BO could combine current damage potential (slightly below t1 variant) with EW bonus and at least 1 extra slot to use the EW.
Redeemer could get +20% Neut range bonus + 1 high slot
Widow is already good, perhaps extra low slot since others are getting it
Sin could get +20 scramble range + 1 mid slot
Panther could get +20 web range + 1 mid slot.
Now they are almost as good as pirate faction bs, and priced about the same.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ephemeron
It would be pretty interesting if BO could combine current damage potential (slightly below t1 variant) with EW bonus and at least 1 extra slot to use the EW.
Redeemer could get +20% Neut range bonus + 1 high slot
This is pretty much the only idea where you couldnt just bridge in the appropriate recon and do the job better.
But really, I dont see why BO need any update at all, they are not supposed to be all-in-one winmobiles, the selling point is the ability to hotdrop a BS hull and bridge in a bunch of support ships with high dps or the secondary abilities of recons.
What they really need is at least double or even triple the space for fuel and extra jump/bridge range, thats it.
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slave chick
Devious Decorum
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
What they really need is at least double or even triple the space for fuel and extra jump/bridge range, thats it.
couldn't agree with you more.
to me, the most frustrating thing when running a BO gang is dealing with the jump/bridge range.
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Secondtryatthis
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: TimMc
Edited by: TimMc on 04/01/2011 03:34:09
Black Ops are pretty useless besides undocking and bridging a bunch of people.
IMO they need:
1) Covert ops cloak. Removal of the targeting delay bonus and movement bonus.
2) Change of focus from damage to perhaps light logistics, gang links or ewar boats. I don't mind something with a covert ops cloak having a nice t1 battleship buffer, but it should not have a bs damage.
My idealised version of black ops is something you only have 1 of in a recon gang. It jumps the fleet in, then jumps itself. It then can repair damage ships after battles, lay down ewar during battle and provide some racial ganglinks. Currently ewar fleets have to bring t3's if they want covert ops boosters, and they cannot use many links without becoming useless in fights.
eg. The Sin.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per skill level
Black Ops Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link CPU need. Can fit 2 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators, covert ops cloaks and covert jump portal generators.
edit:
eg The Panther
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise and Siege Launcher rate of fire and 10% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo missile velocity per level
Black Ops Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link CPU need. Can fit 2 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators, covert ops cloaks and covert jump portal generators.
Note only 2 links.
Do you have any idea how broken that sin bonus is? I assume you want a full heavy drone bay like the dominix, 4 guns, 2 links, covops cloak and bridge, in addition to standard battleship tank and bonused sensor damps.
What you've said is "It's not a solo I kill everything mobile, I want it to be that way".
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icecooljon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:10:00 -
[36]
I recently got into my widow and have since then wrecked havok on nearby 0.0 systems regularly without any issues.
I don't know why you'd ever want a covert ops cloak because if your scout is lighting the cyno at a SS rather than next to the target then your an idiot. I have done multiple hotdrops and not a single time have I ever felt the need for a covert ops cloak.
You want stealth ECM? get yourself into a falcon.
Black Ops are not solopwn boats and that is a good thing. Stop trying to change a ship because you don't have the patience and backup to make the hotdrop work. Best advice is get yourself into a Corp/alliance that practises covert hotdrops and start doing it yourself.
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Soldarius
Caldari
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: icecooljon
words
Despite the rage here, you are correct in saying to get in one and see how it goes. Bit expensive if you fail though.
Q4U: How well has it been working for you to have your covert cyno up next to a hostile target? Or, how many times have you lost your cyno ship, and what are you using for it? Covert cyno stays on for 60 seconds, unless its a falcon, in which case its 30 seconds. With the ECM I can see a good chance of survival. But as for others...
Originally by: Manowar
With dreams to be a king first one should be a man.
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.01.05 02:11:00 -
[38]
Originally by: "Lilith Velknor"
What they really need is at least double or even triple the space for fuel and extra jump/bridge range, thats it.
This guy speaks the truth.
Black Ops BS don't live up to the hype that's true, but the lack of dps or ability to use a cov ops cloak isn't the problem. The real problem is that the range of the black ops bridge is so short that it isn't even enough to jump across many region ajoining adjacent systems, and it is these systems which are the ones which are most commonly camped, when enabling covert gangs to avoid choke point camps was supposed to be the whole point of the Black Ops BS.
For this reason rather than Black Ops being used for their intended purpose of stealthy infiltration (obligitary lol local), they are instead mostly used by the residents of an area for cheap laughs hotdropping unsuspecting passersby. Which is a real shame as the core black ops concept is actually one of the better ideas CCP has had in a long time.
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Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2011.01.05 04:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Shepard Book
It is the answer many should demand. Look how long the stealth bomber did not work well without Cov cloak.
The stealth bomber does not have the same mobility as a black ops battleship has.
Covert ops cloaks are not the answer, more damage is not the answer, more tank is not the answer. The answer is something like bigger fuel bays, better jump range or something like that.
Aye, we can't be letting the individual have any fun now can we ? All about group play, that's it, group support or kill it with fire!
Seriously, I'm sick of everything being balanced 100% revolving around corporations and gang warfare. I get it, it's a big part of the game, but it's not what everyone wants to do. It's a sandbox, you should have the option to go your own way.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2011.01.05 04:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Drakarin
Aye, we can't be letting the individual have any fun now can we ? All about group play, that's it, group support or kill it with fire!
Seriously, I'm sick of everything being balanced 100% revolving around corporations and gang warfare. I get it, it's a big part of the game, but it's not what everyone wants to do. It's a sandbox, you should have the option to go your own way.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
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RagingRifter
Minmatar
The Dark Space Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.05 10:04:00 -
[41]
so my objective is to see what would make the black ops flown more.
ok so warping cloaked isnt what the people want...
tank and dps is nice but will that really make people use it more...
i really think from all of this everyone can agree a simple increase in jump range and possibly fuel costs so you are not required to bring a covert hauler...
so how do we make this happen. how do we let ccp know this would make our sandboxes more happy?
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.01.05 10:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: RagingRifter
so how do we make this happen. how do we let ccp know this would make our sandboxes more happy?
Assembly Hall is that way -->
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Aedron
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:17:00 -
[43]
I've had a lot of fun in my black ops, its just like the titan however. If you buy one to pwn face in it your going to be left disappointed, if you buy it as a cheap alternative to a titan for corp sized hot-dropping you will have the biggest grin on your face.
The amount of times I've ended up in a sun however needs to be looked into, if you bridge+jump to a recon with a black-ops cyno you have such a small window to do all that in you end up ending inside the sun in the cyno system practically 9/10 times.
Final note, covert cloak would be all its needs imo. For all the people claiming it would break the game, it would do far less than all the T3 being able to warp while cloaked + be interdiction nullified. This ship costs virtually 2 T3 and would be caught in bubbles and would still be at great risk of being de clocked before it warped anyway. Having a covert cloak only makes seance when you consider its supposed to be a suport craft for all the ships in the game that CAN warp while cloaked.
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