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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:26:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Gypsio III
It's amazing how many people don't understand how tracking works, eh? 
What I find amazing is the amount of people who proof you wrong by having an understanding compared to those who do not and only troll you.
"Prove you wrong", I think you mean. And you appear to be saying that you are trolling me, since you also don't understand tracking. But we knew this.
Thanks for correcting me. It shows what you know.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:59:00 -
[212]
Originally by: NightmareX
...
Why im starting to believe you sit still and let him orbit you at 500m doing 25m/s. 
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:08:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Whitehound on 10/01/2011 22:11:21
Originally by: NightmareX
But for a Megathron, a target painter will be hard to fit over a MWD, Disruptor, Webber or cap injector.
I suggest to make it an MWD, a scrambler and then a target painter or tracking disruptor.
If the target has got an MWD, too, then you want to scram it and get something like a warp disruptor and a web in a single module, which is a bit like what a scrambler does.
If it flies faster than the Megathron then you might have a problem catching it with a web in the first place.
It then opens a slot for a target painter or a tracking disruptor.
If the target is a small ship then you can still use the target painter or tracking disruptor in combination with your drones and over a long distance, which will be better than hoping to catch the small ship with a web and to hit it at a close range.
Megathron pilots should not hope for their targets to come into web range when their targets are likely more scared of the blasters than of the web itself.
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:29:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: NightmareX
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Why im starting to believe you sit still and let him orbit you at 500m doing 25m/s.
I wasn't sitting still when i testet against the Vigilant. I was moving around. But as i said, since both was 90% webbed and since the Vigilant are faster than my Vindicator, then he can controll the range.
Well against a target with a 60% web, it shouldn't be a problem.
But just to make this clear. First of all Blasters is the weapon that have the closest range of all weapons. And secondly, you have to spend alot of time to MWD to the targets. SO i think Blasters should hit good at any ranges from 0m to the Neutron Blasters optimal range once you are in that range.
First you use a ship that is a very close range ship with Blasters. But when you finally are very close to the targets, you then suddenly can't hit anything because you ended up by being 0 m from a target after you have MWD'ed after him.
I think after you finally have got into the Blasters optimal you should hit targets as good at 200-300m as you do at 2.5 km.
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Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:50:00 -
[215]
Quote:
Hint: The optimal range is 4.5km on your neutrons. Its not a blaster tracking problem, its an incompetent user problem (especially if we are considering the Vindicator).
Really? That's your argument? Now you're supposed to not only get <10km of your target but you have to avoid getting <1-2km because of a mess up in the tracking formula?
Hint: As things get closer to you their higher transversal is countered by a higher relative sig radius, EVE dosen't take this into account thus severely crippling the close range weapon's system.
BS sized blasters have a tiny 8km window where they're of any use for pretty much all damage types, Pulse Lasers have a series of tight windows that gives them damage superiority over everything more then 15km and up to 50km away but it requires switching accurately to the right crystal for the situation, Autocannons have a significant dps advantage where tracking is a concern and have broad windows of effectiveness that allows them to pick the range their enemy is weakest at and count on their guns to make do.
Quote:
Yes, vindicator is for sure meant to hit cruiser hulls... even if you consider that some BSes can outtrack pulse lasers in 500m orbit, that some cruisers can outtrack even medium acs... NO, vindicator is 1 bill so it must be able to do it.
500 m is 1/30th of the optimal of a pulse laser it's 1/9th the optimal of a neutron blaster, these are not viable comparisons. Autocannons would be the best comparison to answer the 'should it track' question.
Quote:
True, but do you assume that black is the analogy to Minmatar and white is the analogy to Gallente? I hope not, because the ships in EVE are not the same. They are anything but the same. The ships all have different material requirements, and while these requirements do not change do the prices of the materials change, and with them changes the price of these ships. There is nothing, except perhaps the amount of required skill points, that lets you compare two ships with one another in EVE. So, yes, my "analogy" (really only an example) is correct.
Hint: One of the ways that chess is balanced is that both sides are the same, symmetrical balance as it were, since this is not the case in EVE your analogy/example fails.
Asymmetric balance is in it's very nature more complex and difficult to handle but it usually involves balancing the situations where either side would reign supreme. Currently Blasters are only useful at very short range and even then are only marginally better then pulse lasers for raw DPS which can hit with their short range ammo at 3x the range. With such a small niche pilots must work quite a bit harder to conspire to get the enemy into their optimal engagement zone vs lasers and autocannons which have broader optimal engagement zones offering more opportunities to deal more DPS then they take.
Similarly rails lack a situation where their superior range but meager DPS can reasonably insure victory. Short of simply being out of your opponent's locking range the dps advantage advantage that rails have at -their- optimal ( 230km+ ? ) is so small against the falloff of Tachapocs that the pilots must work that much harder to produce a specific situation that works to their advantage. Arty in this situation stands aside in having an alpha advantage instead.
Quote:
I think after you finally have got into the Blasters optimal you should hit targets as good at 200-300m as you do at 2.5 km.
Maybe one day they'll fix the tracking formula but I'm not holding my breath.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:50:00 -
[216]
Originally by: NightmareX
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1) You are trying to use guns that are designed to track at around 4km at less than 1km.
2) You are using battleship guns against a cruiser hull.
What are you actually expecting should happen?
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:59:00 -
[217]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/01/2011 23:02:05
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: NightmareX
...
1) You are trying to use guns that are designed to track at around 4km at less than 1km.
2) You are using battleship guns against a cruiser hull.
What are you actually expecting should happen?
Hint: Vindicator was used in this example.
A Vindicator with a 90% web should absolutely hit any cruiser sized ships with no problems what so ever.
When even the Vindicator with a 90% web had big problems to hit a Vigilant when it was 500m from it, then how do you think it is with a Megathron then?
No, a weapon system like Blasters should hit as good at 400-500m as they do at 3 km. That's something everybody agrees on.
So that means if you can hit a frig at 3 km, as you normally wont do, then you will also hit them at 400m. This wont mean they are instapopping frigs and that. it just mean they wont have any more problems to hit stuffs at 400m as they have at 3 km.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:18:00 -
[218]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/01/2011 23:02:05
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: NightmareX
...
1) You are trying to use guns that are designed to track at around 4km at less than 1km.
2) You are using battleship guns against a cruiser hull.
What are you actually expecting should happen?
Hint: Vindicator was used in this example.
A Vindicator with a 90% web should absolutely hit any cruiser sized ships with no problems what so ever.
When even the Vindicator with a 90% web had big problems to hit a Vigilant when it was 500m from it, then how do you think it is with a Megathron then?
No, a weapon system like Blasters should hit as good at 400-500m as they do at 3 km. That's something everybody agrees on.
So that means if you can hit a frig at 3 km, as you normally wont do, then you will also hit them at 400m. This wont mean they are instapopping frigs and that. it just mean they wont have any more problems to hit stuffs at 400m as they have at 3 km.
Its a core mechanic that bigger ships with bigger guns should have trouble shooting smaller ships, the web nerf was a deliberate concession after the nano nerf not just so getting webbed meant no longer meant instant death it was also to make close range kiting more viable.
I know its hard for many older characters to swallow but a Megathron and its variants are no longer able to BBQ any hull size it can get into web range but it was done for a reason so get over it.
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:25:00 -
[219]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/01/2011 23:27:03
Originally by: Lady Skank
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/01/2011 23:02:05
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: NightmareX
...
1) You are trying to use guns that are designed to track at around 4km at less than 1km.
2) You are using battleship guns against a cruiser hull.
What are you actually expecting should happen?
Hint: Vindicator was used in this example.
A Vindicator with a 90% web should absolutely hit any cruiser sized ships with no problems what so ever.
When even the Vindicator with a 90% web had big problems to hit a Vigilant when it was 500m from it, then how do you think it is with a Megathron then?
No, a weapon system like Blasters should hit as good at 400-500m as they do at 3 km. That's something everybody agrees on.
So that means if you can hit a frig at 3 km, as you normally wont do, then you will also hit them at 400m. This wont mean they are instapopping frigs and that. it just mean they wont have any more problems to hit stuffs at 400m as they have at 3 km.
Its a core mechanic that bigger ships with bigger guns should have trouble shooting smaller ships, the web nerf was a deliberate concession after the nano nerf not just so getting webbed meant no longer meant instant death it was also to make close range kiting more viable.
I know its hard for many older characters to swallow but a Megathron and its variants are no longer able to BBQ any hull size it can get into web range but it was done for a reason so get over it.
I'm not saying the Megathron should BBQ other ships. All i'm saying is that a Megathron, or a Vindicator for example should hit targets as good at 400m as they do at 3 km. So if you can't hit a frig at 3 km with a Megathron as you normally wont do either, then you wont hit that frig either at 400m.
But if you can hit a frig at 3 km, you should be able to hit it to at 400 m to.
That actually makes it more scary to get to close to the Mega or a Vindicator.
It's that simple.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:25:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Lady Skank
I know its hard for many older characters to swallow but a Megathron and its variants are no longer able to BBQ any hull size it can get into web range but it was done for a reason so get over it.
Can you please point me to something that it is able to BBQ? Or some good reason to fly it at all? :)
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:37:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lady Skank
I know its hard for many older characters to swallow but a Megathron and its variants are no longer able to BBQ any hull size it can get into web range but it was done for a reason so get over it.
Can you please point me to something that it is able to BBQ? Or some good reason to fly it at all? :)
-Liang
It does as adequate job as any other BS in small (10 or less) gangs, and don't talk about the range of Amarr ships or anything because the ability to fit MWD, scram, web and cap injector and fit neuts gives it a place as well as any other BS in those type of fights and you can still use null for up to 24km and do decent damage.
I fly both Amarr and Gallente and in low sec I rarely get any benefit from scorch range as I usually end up using faction X-Ray/Gamma for less tracking loss and almost never end up shooting past 20-30km, if somethings not tackled you cant kill it.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:42:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Lady Skank
Its a core mechanic that bigger ships with bigger guns should have trouble shooting smaller ships, the web nerf was a deliberate concession after the nano nerf not just so getting webbed meant no longer meant instant death it was also to make close range kiting more viable.
I know its hard for many older characters to swallow but a Megathron and its variants are no longer able to BBQ any hull size it can get into web range but it was done for a reason so get over it.
On the other hand, it killed most reasons to fly a mega for solo and small gang.
I for myself always found it kind of a poor trade off that the ships and weapons that are completely depend on web range pvp to success(even at the BS class) got nerfed into the ground because web range was "to deadly" instead going with the "If you can't take the fire stay away from the heat." that worked for years without any bigger issues.
In the end it only gives blaster ships back the ability to do what they do, deal damage at point blank. Nothing more, nothing less. If this is not acceptable as a role there is no reason to fly one(outside slow, dps and range less supertankers), since eve has no shortage of damage dealers for other ranges. 
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:43:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Whitehound on 10/01/2011 23:45:37
Originally by: Altaica Amur
Hint: One of the ways that chess is balanced is that both sides are the same, symmetrical balance as it were, since this is not the case in EVE your analogy/example fails.
No, this was not the point of my example. The example serves to illustrate that a balance (or imbalance) cannot be determined by looking at only a part of the system.
So when you look at the Queen and Pawns in Chess do their differences say nothing about the overall balance of the game. The very same is true for EVE when you look at the ships.
Do not think of the Chess figures as the ships of EVE. Better think of the Chess figures as the ships, modules, rigs, ammo, etc.. Think lateral.
--
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:27:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Lady Skank
It does as adequate job as any other BS in small (10 or less) gangs ... I fly both Amarr and Gallente ...
I fly exclusively in small gangs, and I have perfectly maxed skills for Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar. I use Scorch a lot when I am in a laser BS.
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:46:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lady Skank
It does as adequate job as any other BS in small (10 or less) gangs ... I fly both Amarr and Gallente ...
I fly exclusively in small gangs, and I have perfectly maxed skills for Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar. I use Scorch a lot when I am in a laser BS.
-Liang
In my experience needing to shoot more than 30km in small BS fights is very, very rare, the last time I needed to do it was against a gang of 100MN nano Tengus of doom and it was more to drive them off than kill them because we had nothing that could keep a point on them.
Most fights are usually in HIC range at most and in any fights where more range than that is needed I do not fly a BS.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:48:00 -
[226]
Wow, 8 pages of people manage to completely miss the point. I mean, I'm not really an expert on Gallente ships or anything but I'm told they have these things called "drones" that also do damage in addition to their guns, and in fact apparently all the gallente gunboats carry a full rack of them which isn't true for any other non-specialized drone carrier aside from geddon (balanced by a fake dps bonus, like all Amarr ships) and phoon (which excels at not excelling at anything). So I'm thinking that maybe everyone crying because they cant instapwn tacklers with 1000 dps are just doing it wrong.
As for 0km kiting not being as much of a problem in years past, that's probably because in years past the .0 alliances' ratio of cloaked multi spy alts to actual people was less than 27 to 1, which somewhat mitigated things.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:52:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/01/2011 00:52:29
Originally by: Lady Skank
In my experience needing to shoot more than 30km in small BS fights is very, very rare, the last time I needed to do it was against a gang of 100MN nano Tengus of doom and it was more to drive them off than kill them because we had nothing that could keep a point on them.
Most fights are usually in HIC range at most and in any fights where more range than that is needed I do not fly a BS.
I have no explanation for how dramatically different our environments are... but considering that my experience matches what most other blaster pilots see, I am gonna go out on a limb and say that yours is the odd one. To me, it looks pretty simple to a blaster BS: you're either shooting a battleship (hey cool you can barely get in range, barely track, and where in the hell did you find one of those at anyway?!!?) or you're getting face ****d by something smaller.
Blaster battleships are made for small gang encounters, and small gang encounters require the versatility to engage a variety of targets -- including smaller targets. If they cannot perform there, there is no point in their existence.
-Liang
Ed: And as for the last time I needed to shoot more than 30km... well hell.. maybe 8 out of the last 10 fights I've been in.
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:54:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Del Narveux
apparently all the gallente gunboats carry a full rack of them which isn't true for any other non-specialized drone carrier aside from geddon
All battleships are capable of carrying a full rack of drones to deal with tacklers. Heavies do **** all.
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:56:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I fly exclusively in small gangs, and I have perfectly maxed skills for Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar. I use Scorch a lot when I am in a laser BS.
I mainly fly the rr/neut torp phoon, even with my mediocre torp skills I have usually no issues hitting stuff in small battleship fights. That is no skills for t2 javelins even so like 17km or so range  Sometimes I have to burn a few km, other times stuff is so close its even better than turrets.
It is a lot about FC being aware, if they know they have lot of shortrange damage dealers they know they have to call targets close to anchor point.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:06:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/01/2011 00:52:29
Originally by: Lady Skank
In my experience needing to shoot more than 30km in small BS fights is very, very rare, the last time I needed to do it was against a gang of 100MN nano Tengus of doom and it was more to drive them off than kill them because we had nothing that could keep a point on them.
Most fights are usually in HIC range at most and in any fights where more range than that is needed I do not fly a BS.
I have no explanation for how dramatically different our environments are... but considering that my experience matches what most other blaster pilots see, I am gonna go out on a limb and say that yours is the odd one. To me, it looks pretty simple to a blaster BS: you're either shooting a battleship (hey cool you can barely get in range, barely track, and where in the hell did you find one of those at anyway?!!?) or you're getting face ****d by something smaller.
Blaster battleships are made for small gang encounters, and small gang encounters require the versatility to engage a variety of targets -- including smaller targets. If they cannot perform there, there is no point in their existence.
-Liang
Ed: And as for the last time I needed to shoot more than 30km... well hell.. maybe 8 out of the last 10 fights I've been in.
I am thinking its because we use intel and pick appropriate ships for what we will be fighting, if its a small group of BS we pick BS if its something else we fly something else. of course it doesn't always work out but most the time it does as for not finding small groups of BS I would suggest moving to less blobby space.
If a fights on a gate the Mega has little problem getting in range and on a station its the same unless for some reason they are on the opposite side of the station from your warp in. when it comes to smaller targets the other gang is either big enough to face frack you w/e you are flying or if its not they cannot have transversal on every ship and you have mixed ships and neuts and droneswarm.
I am not saying Blasters couldn't be better but the ships that use them are not useless either.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:17:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Del Narveux
apparently all the gallente gunboats carry a full rack of them which isn't true for any other non-specialized drone carrier aside from geddon
All battleships are capable of carrying a full rack of drones to deal with tacklers. Heavies do **** all.
-Liang
doesn't stop people trying to push paper DPS numbers tho
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:46:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 11/01/2011 01:49:05
In my opinion if blasters' damage nor Gallente ships are to be modified then I would vote for higher tracking.
Blasters should track a whole lot better right to close orbits. It should be difficult (but not impossible) to get "under" blasters tracking (edit: when hitting ships in the same class).
Until blasters are given (back) some kind of niche then they are inferior in every way to all other weapons systems. The damage 'advantage' is simply not 'real' enough in practice.
This does not mean blasters are useless.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2011.01.11 02:12:00 -
[233]
Unbelievable, someone found that mega does adequate job. Nah, he must be living in some special enviroment, cant be true. Noone needs full tackle, mwd, cap booster and neut on bs. Tbh they arent really mandatory for solo. On other hand, you will be shooting at 40k all the time... Oh wait.
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.01.11 08:25:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Nanferr
if anything, its missiles that needs a buff.
Missiles needs to have at least double the damage, maybe quadruple the flight velocity, 1/4 the flight time, and a -80% reduction in explosion velocity of all missiles
Yea, let drake **** dreads but lose to any frigate.
I.
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Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:38:00 -
[235]
Quote:
EVE definitely has a simplified tracking model, but its good enough for the most part. High velocity frigates hurting their own tracking despite being in a perfect orbit is a much more glaring problem.
No not really, the fact that when you get in close ( less then 500 m ) all turret weapons drop towards zero damage is a far more glaring issue. The example you posed is a false one as a ball orbiting a point other then you will have periods of reduced or even zero transversal in the approach and egress portions of it's flight where a strait flyby will always have considerable transversal.
Quote:
800mm ACs track slightly worse than neutrons, and track a whole lot worse than neutrons on a Megathron hull. Despite having even less optimal range.
AC falloff also allows it to be used at ranges where tracking becomes less of an issue, Blasters don't have falloff anywhere near that.
Quote:
I am not saying Blasters couldn't be better but the ships that use them are not useless either.
Not useless isn't balanced though and that is what we're going for I'd hope, in any situation where blasters will do all right there is another weapon system that will match or outperform blasters as well as having range either through optimal or falloff. On stations I'd prefer a weapon that can catch someone on the other side of the station, on gates I'd prefer to not have to move and catch the target before applying best dps. If you're determined to run after and catch a target you're probably better off with autocannons anyways which will do far better DPS in the approach stages.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:53:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Altaica Amur
No not really, the fact that when you get in close ( less then 500 m ) all turret weapons drop towards zero damage is a far more glaring issue.
Now actually getting that close AND keeping a meaningful transversal is somewhat difficult. Thats a major reason gallente BS struggle to make their tracking advantage towards BS amarr count at close ranges.
The ships that do manage that are way too small in signature combined with such a high velocity that it doesnt matter anyways.
So yea, tracking while in orbit vs tracking an orbiting target has way more practical impact.
Originally by: Altaica Amur
The example you posed is a false one
The example wasnt really a good one I agree. But the point is merely that the whole 'relative signature radius makes the difference' argument is a fallacy.
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Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:06:00 -
[237]
Quote:
The example wasnt really a good one I agree. But the point is merely that the whole 'relative signature radius makes the difference' argument is a fallacy.
It's not a fallacy though as your margin of error goes down due to the ship you're shooting presenting a larger target to hit as they get closer. When a 1km long ship is 500m away you can aim your guns many degrees off the center of mass and still hit the target. Contrarily at 200km mere fractions of a degree off can spoil a shot.
Quote:
Thats back to the whole 'autocannons are never supposed to be used close to their optimal ranges but in three quarter falloff' argument, which is not really a good one to be honest as both systems share kind of a similar philosophy with different emphasis.
I wouldn't consider them the same philosophy myself, Blasters specialize in short range, pulse lasers specialize in mid rage and autocannons specialize in not really caring so much about the range so much as being at whatever range their opponent works poorly at.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:56:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Altaica Amur
It's not a fallacy though as your margin of error goes down due to the ship you're shooting presenting a larger target to hit as they get closer. When a 1km long ship is 500m away you can aim your guns many degrees off the center of mass and still hit the target. Contrarily at 200km mere fractions of a degree off can spoil a shot.
The thing is, our guns in EVE are always aimed dead center on the target anyway, no matter how far or close it is. There is no good or bad aim, its always perfect as long as the turret can follow where the turret is a single installation in the center of our ship with an all around arc. No margin of error to begin with, hence nothing to improve.
Now we can argue if this is good or bad, and mind you I'm not saying the idealized turret simulation we have is the best I've ever seen, but it works good enough and most of all its balance friendly as well as easy on the hardware.
Originally by: Altaica Amur
I wouldn't consider them the same philosophy myself, Blasters specialize in short range, pulse lasers specialize in mid rage and autocannons specialize in not really caring so much about the range so much as being at whatever range their opponent works poorly at.
Well, similar while not completely the same. Both are falloff heavy, especially as long as shortrange ammo is used while blasters are more optimal-oriented than the mainly falloff oriented autos.
You'll typically want to use the autos at very short range just as you do with the blasters, exception being kiting setups and enemies that outdamage you at those ranges.
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Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:57:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Altaica Amur
It's not a fallacy though as your margin of error goes down due to the ship you're shooting presenting a larger target to hit as they get closer. When a 1km long ship is 500m away you can aim your guns many degrees off the center of mass and still hit the target. Contrarily at 200km mere fractions of a degree off can spoil a shot.
So much this. This is why blasters don't work.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 15:09:00 -
[240]
Edited by: The Djego on 13/01/2011 15:10:23
Originally by: Wacktopia
Edited by: Wacktopia on 11/01/2011 01:49:05
In my opinion if blasters' damage nor Gallente ships are to be modified then I would vote for higher tracking.
Blasters should track a whole lot better right to close orbits. It should be difficult (but not impossible) to get "under" blasters tracking (edit: when hitting ships in the same class).
Until blasters are given (back) some kind of niche then they are inferior in every way to all other weapons systems. The damage 'advantage' is simply not 'real' enough in practice.
This does not mean blasters are useless.
Even 400% more tracking would not give you range control at point blank, what is extreme important to actually play it as a damage dealer. The damage advantage isn't really there in practical game play because blaster ships have no useful range to project her damage, they lose to much at a point blank(thx web nerf) and at range(same old story). Blaster ships simply do require stronger webs, for damage projection and range control, to archive ther intended effect.
Actually it should be next to impossible to get any kind of damage migration in blaster optimal for a similar sized hull, that is barley the point where it starts to work as a damage dealer in his intended field of use(since you will start with less ehp and you will have to move the ship in optimal first). The niche of blaster ships is to liberate stuff at point blank(instead of failing at this range what they do since the web nerf), nail a target into the ground and nuke it in quick and lethal slug downs.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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