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Qui Rune
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:37:00 -
[1]
Greetings.
I was wondering if Some of you experienced AF Pilots can give the Pros and Cons of these two and what your opinion is on each for PvP. Perhaps even some Fit examples. Thank you in advance!
Be Well.
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Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:42:00 -
[2]
My opinion is fly a Wolf, the Minnie AF I can actually kill.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:51:00 -
[3]
Generally (very generally mind, and by no means set in stone), the Wolf is for DPS, the Jag is for tanking.
They do their roles pretty well too
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Truculent Misanthrope
Amarr Generic Internet Spaceships Trading Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.05 01:55:00 -
[4]
If you can get to point blank range, a wolf will win in a slugfest. Tricky part is getting there and staying there. In general, the jag is superior due to superior mobility. However, a Jag will lose in a 1v1 -vs- a wolf in eft eve.
Realistically, dual prop/MSE jag is a damned fun ship to fly but it has low dps and sacrifices the web.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.05 02:20:00 -
[5]
The wolf is kinda like a thrasher - its got lots of damage... but the wolf is better because its a lot smaller and faster and has got a way better tank as well, plus a falloff bonus that gives great range to autocannons.
The jaguar is kinda like a Thrasher - it has good optimal range for artillery and can fit a wicked shield tank... except the jag is better for artillery because its got the fourth midslot to fit a tank as well as a cap booster or whatever else... and since it's faster than either the wolf or the thrasher it keeps up its range easier.
The jag is also good with autocannons though. it is pretty much a souped rifter with a fourth midslot that you can either use to shield tank instead of armor, or for more Ewar.
I only used a wolf once and died right away for engaging a bait thorax so I have no experience with that, but the arty jag is capable of soloing cruisers (even almighty rupture) pretty easily, kill the drones and slowly waste their armor.
If i were to fly a wolf now though, I'd use something like this,
[Wolf, Pimp] 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner Warp Scrambler II
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
basically the wolf is straightup better statwise, and the jag is more versatile and gets an extra midslot for a web or whatever else the kids use these days.
For gang pvp though I would just use a stabber - it will outperform both AF in DPS and will outperform the wolf at armor tanking and the jag at shield tanking.
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Captain Nares
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Posted - 2011.01.05 03:34:00 -
[6]
Dramiel, Thrasher, Jaguar.
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RiskyFrisky
Under the Table Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 04:28:00 -
[7]
Dual MSE Jaguar. That's all I'm saying. -
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2011.01.05 08:23:00 -
[8]
Jaguar.
Two mid slot AFs are garbage.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
VanNostrum
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Posted - 2011.01.05 16:28:00 -
[9]
jaguar tackle and tank wolf awesome dps
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.05 16:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: VanNostrum jaguar tackle and tank wolf awesome dps
Jaguar: 250 dps overheated with full tackle and mse.
Wolf: 300dps overheated with lol two mids.
I know which one I use.
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Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:25:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Bluejacket CT on 05/01/2011 21:26:19 Apples and oranges really, and it's not the simple "tank vs. dps" argument.
I've seen some pretty promising Wolf fits set up similar to a Vagabond, using barrage with tracking enhancers to get a gigantic falloff, with an MWD and a long point.
Jag is nice because of the mid slot flexibility, and is generally favored because of this. It's your preference honestly, either you can kite with a scram/web AB set up on the jag, or kite with an MWD and falloff set up on the wolf.
Jags can also go with scram/td, or dual prop w/ scram.
Wolfs can also be super gank fit, which works well for frigate fleets because the mid slot flexibility becomes much less of an issue, same story as the Enyo.
Edit: forgot to specify which ship was which ~
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:32:00 -
[12]
Wolf is armor tank, more DPS. Jaguar is shield tank, more tank.
Fly the rifter, figure out how you like to tank it, then use the appropriate AF.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:41:00 -
[13]
I dunno, I just find the Jaguar to be more effective in most scenariors. It's essentially a rifter on crack which is self explanatory really. The wolf is nice, but damn if it doesn't just feel slow with an armor tank and two mids. Tbh, I guess I like the jag because the only way I can get the performance I want out of a wolf is with a deadspace afterburner and armor repper and I can tech II fit the jag and it works fine. The jaguar is also much more flexible, it works well solo and in gangs.
Jag fits
Dual MSE/Purge/Extender passiv Full tackle/MSE Dual Prop MSE Gist-B/Extender Wannabe pirate frig fit. Pew-Pew kiting arty fit Ab/Scram/Invuln/MSE/Nano
Wolf fit:
Plate/repper/ab/scram
That said, I haven't flown the wolf nearly as much as the jag, so if someone would like to enlighten me as to its unsung virtues I'm all ears.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Wolf is armor tank, more DPS. Jaguar is shield tank, more tank.
Fly the rifter, figure out how you like to tank it, then use the appropriate AF.
But the thing is if you armor tank the wolf so you can fit a point then a jag with full tackle and mse ends up having more ehp ,speed and dps.
The wolf really only excels over the jag in a couple of areas which is the glass cannon kiter with long point or the shield tanked ganker.
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Barrak
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:05:00 -
[15]
Personaly I found that if I was flying solo the Jag was the better choice - more survivability, more mids - thus allowing more options.
The Wolf, however, is a mean SOB when in a small gang where all the extra mids 'might' not be needed.
Regards
Barrak ==================================================
Just because you can fly the ship, it doesn't mean you can fly the ship
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:37:00 -
[16]
jag has speed, it has full tackle, it has a MSE tank and it has decent dps
wolf has slightly more dps
why anyone uses wolfs I do not know, at least they are easy kills --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Srecko C
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.01.06 00:22:00 -
[17]
Activetanked jag? Is this thing of the past or is it still viable with nos fitted?
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2011.01.06 01:04:00 -
[18]
The wolf can squeeze out a 100 DPS more then a Jag so it's more then a "little bit." Regardless, AFs are getting a remake in the next 6 months so this "tastes great" vs. "less filling" thread is moot. I personally would love a 5-3-3 slot Wolf.
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Captain Nares
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Posted - 2011.01.06 02:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Captain Nares on 06/01/2011 02:39:31
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf I personally would love a 5-3-3 slot Wolf.
+1, rifter on crack. Jag isn't bad with its MSE buffer, but it lacks faloff bonus and dps. Also armortank will remind old good days of solo rifter, first and greatest solo ship :)
PS or 4-3-4
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2011.01.06 09:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: VanNostrum jaguar tackle and tank wolf awesome dps
Jaguar: 250 dps overheated with full tackle and mse.
Wolf: 300dps overheated with lol two mids.
I know which one I use.
With those figures I understand you have some pretty fail fits. My wolf does 300dps (358 overheated), and standard tackler jag fits get 150-200 dps
You seriously don't know these ships.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:19:00 -
[21]
He's not wrong technically, if you fully gank fit the jaguar it'll do 250dps overheated, but it'll only have an 8.5k tank. The wolf will do 350ish with max gank. But he seems to be comparing a tanked wolf to a max dps jag, which is silly.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:19:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 06/01/2011 10:21:16
Originally by: VanNostrum
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: VanNostrum jaguar tackle and tank wolf awesome dps
Jaguar: 250 dps overheated with full tackle and mse.
Wolf: 300dps overheated with lol two mids.
I know which one I use.
With those figures I understand you have some pretty fail fits. My wolf does 300dps (358 overheated), and standard tackler jag fits get 150-200 dps
You seriously don't know these ships.
Yeah thats with hail loaded. I use rf emp/fusion as a base for dps claims because its the most useful in all situations. But with hail the jag goes up to just shy of 250 dps and 300 dps overheated so the ratio is still valid.
Originally by: TaluxA He's not wrong technically, if you fully gank fit the jaguar it'll do 250dps overheated, but it'll only have an 8.5k tank. The wolf will do 350ish with max gank. But he seems to be comparing a tanked wolf to a max dps jag, which is silly.
Wtb tanked wolf that does 350 dps. Unless its a fail fit shield tank.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:29:00 -
[23]
A wolf with a 200 plate and a meta dc can get 350dps with hail and no implants. The tank is fairly similar to a gank fit jaguar.
Point is that a similarly fit wolf will always do significantly more dps than a jaguar, especially counting falloff. But the jag is faster and has a much better slot layout, which makes it the better ship for almost anything other than dualing other frigates solo.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TaluxA A wolf with a 200 plate and a meta dc can get 350dps with hail and no implants. The tank is fairly similar to a gank fit jaguar.
Point is that a similarly fit wolf will always do significantly more dps than a jaguar, especially counting falloff. But the jag is faster and has a much better slot layout, which makes it the better ship for almost anything other than dualing other frigates solo.
50 dps is not a significant amount when both ships are already at or past 300 dps overheated and in a gang. Plus the only way I could get that implantless 200mm plate wolf to get up to 330 dps overheated with tackle was to use a 15 mil dcu and stick in an afterburner so you get a blazing 900ms out of it. Also it has about 2k less ehp and a gaping wide explosive and kinetic hole in the tank.
Sorry guys you can eft all day long but the wolf will never be better than the jag in any normal pvp situation. Or any situation really.
You choose then.
Wolf with a shiatty tank, slow afterburner speed and 330 dps or a jag with mwd scram web mse and just under 300 dps?
Again I know what I would use.
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TaluxA
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Posted - 2011.01.06 12:22:00 -
[25]
You seem pretty set on the jaguar. Anyway you're either trolling or just ridiculously single minded if you think the wolf doesn't do significantly more dps. Everything else you're saying is pretty much right.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.06 20:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: TaluxA You seem pretty set on the jaguar. Anyway you're either trolling or just ridiculously single minded if you think the wolf doesn't do significantly more dps. Everything else you're saying is pretty much right.
Please tell me in what context an additional 50 dps on the wolf is going to make up for the lack of tank, speed and tackle then?
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Qui Rune
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Posted - 2011.01.06 23:24:00 -
[27]
Wow, Thank you for all the input! Let me ask this...
Wouldn't 200 Auto IIs be better than the 150's?
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2011.01.06 23:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 06/01/2011 20:42:25
Originally by: TaluxA You seem pretty set on the jaguar. Anyway you're either trolling or just ridiculously single minded if you think the wolf doesn't do significantly more dps. Everything else you're saying is pretty much right.
Please tell me in what context an additional 50 dps on the wolf is going to make up for the lack of tank, speed and tackle then?
Here's the gank jag:
High: 200mm II x 3 w/ RFFusion Med: Catalyzed Coldgas Arc-Jet Thrusters Medium F-29 Regolith Shield Induction Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor Low: F85 Peripheral Damage System Gyro II x 2 Rigs: Projectile Burst Projectile Collision
2688m/s. 249 DPS overheated. 7735 EHP
Here's the Gank Wolf:
High: 220mm II x 4 Arbalest Rocket Launcher Med: Catalyzed Coldgas Arc-Jet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: F85 Peripheral Induction Damage System Gyro II Tracking Enhancer II Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Burst Projectile Collission
2543 m/s. 314 DPS overheated. 5818 EHP. The jag gets 1917 more EHP and is 145m/s faster and gets a web. The wolf gets 65 more DPS and twice the falloff with better tracking.
The wolf vs. jag is a stupid argument. I can pop out the scramber, rocket launcher, and adaptive nano II on the wolf and replace them with an OD II and warp disruptor. The wolf will then go 2860m/s and lock out to 20km. I can also load Barrage and get 18km falloff to your 6km too. And you can overheat your MWD and kill that idea. Or I can overheat and stay away. Or you can replace a gyro with a OD II too. And on and on it goes. Stupid argument.
I like the wolf. I use damage implants and have trained small AC specialization to lvl 5 so my actual DPS difference is actually over 80. It's all about personal preference. One last thing - 1917 EHP in a frigate fight amounts to "o crap where did he come from?"
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.07 02:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf I like the wolf. I use damage implants and have trained small AC specialization to lvl 5 so my actual DPS difference is actually over 80. It's all about personal preference. One last thing - 1917 EHP in a frigate fight amounts to "o crap where did he come from?"
And then you die to the first td rifter you run across because you don't have a web. Been there done that.
Wolf sucks vs using a jag though there is no rule against using your personal preference as eve is a sandbox after all.
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Cindjin
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Posted - 2011.01.07 04:57:00 -
[30]
Don't mean to Hijack...
How does the Jag or Wolf stand up to the Dramiel?
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