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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.05 09:32:00 -
[1]
Seems that even with average settings that rendering our characters with the hair physics and such is pretty taxing?
How will this scale when we have 5+ Avatars in an environment? Will other player's avatars be the lowest quality, looking vastly different then how they were intended to look?
Or is it just a matter that avatars are only taxing while in the character creator?
I hope CCP is testing having multiple characters in an area on different benchmark machines or I fear Incarna could be a flop.
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Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 10:23:00 -
[2]
*cough* getabettergfxcard *cough*
Now, seriously. I have a 2yo graphic card and I haven't got the slightest problem running the character creator at highish settings. So the problem isn't there. Update your drivers and if that fails, your graphic card. If you're playing from a laptop, your graphic card will most probably suck, even if it's quite recent, so those don't count.
Beside that, you can always turn down the graphic settings in Incarna (while for the CC you should be using the best you can physically manage)
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.05 10:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Iamien on 05/01/2011 10:31:10
 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
*cough* getabettergfxcard *cough*
Now, seriously. I have a 2yo graphic card and I haven't got the slightest problem running the character creator at highish settings. So the problem isn't there. Update your drivers and if that fails, your graphic card. If you're playing from a laptop, your graphic card will most probably suck, even if it's quite recent, so those don't count.
Beside that, you can always turn down the graphic settings in Incarna (while for the CC you should be using the best you can physically manage)
Someone missed the point. I run a 9600 GT(In a 3 y.o. self-built rig) at medium setting smoothly(At high settings the hair simulation causes a bit of stutter when i rotate the character). The point I was making is that I can handle one character smoothly, how will performance change when there are 10 characters on-screen at a corp meeting for instance? Will all characters be fully rendered at same quality?
I very much doubt that ANY graphics card on the market atm could halve 10 avatars at full settings, especially with the physics hair, cloth, and so forth.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.01.05 11:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Iamien
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
*cough* getabettergfxcard *cough*
Now, seriously. I have a 2yo graphic card and I haven't got the slightest problem running the character creator at highish settings. So the problem isn't there. Update your drivers and if that fails, your graphic card. If you're playing from a laptop, your graphic card will most probably suck, even if it's quite recent, so those don't count.
Beside that, you can always turn down the graphic settings in Incarna (while for the CC you should be using the best you can physically manage)
Someone missed the point. I run a 9600 GT(In a 3 y.o. self-built rig) at medium setting smoothly(At high settings the hair simulation causes a bit of stutter when i rotate the character). The point I was making is that I can handle one character smoothly, how will performance change when there are 10 characters on-screen at a corp meeting for instance? Will all characters be fully rendered at same quality?
I very much doubt that ANY graphics card on the market atm could halve 10 avatars at full settings, especially with the physics hair, cloth, and so forth.
I doubt we'll be seeing the day-to-day chars running around with more than 500-1,000 polys each when up close.
The portrait is probably made with 4k+ polys (whole body, head alone will be 1,000).
And, if you noticed.. we didn't see any clients with avatars running around yet (except from tech demos at CCP), so they're prob still working on that one.
It's just a shame that we'll not see more of our avatars for the time frame till the next expansion in summer.
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Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 12:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Iamien
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
*cough* getabettergfxcard *cough*
Now, seriously. I have a 2yo graphic card and I haven't got the slightest problem running the character creator at highish settings. So the problem isn't there. Update your drivers and if that fails, your graphic card. If you're playing from a laptop, your graphic card will most probably suck, even if it's quite recent, so those don't count.
Beside that, you can always turn down the graphic settings in Incarna (while for the CC you should be using the best you can physically manage)
Someone missed the point. I run a 9600 GT(In a 3 y.o. self-built rig) at medium setting smoothly(At high settings the hair simulation causes a bit of stutter when i rotate the character). The point I was making is that I can handle one character smoothly, how will performance change when there are 10 characters on-screen at a corp meeting for instance? Will all characters be fully rendered at same quality?
I very much doubt that ANY graphics card on the market atm could halve 10 avatars at full settings, especially with the physics hair, cloth, and so forth.
I doubt we'll be seeing the day-to-day chars running around with more than 500-1,000 polys each when up close.
The portrait is probably made with 4k+ polys (whole body, head alone will be 1,000).
And, if you noticed.. we didn't see any clients with avatars running around yet (except from tech demos at CCP), so they're prob still working on that one.
It's just a shame that we'll not see more of our avatars for the time frame till the next expansion in summer.
Honestly I doubt we'll see more interaction in summer... Given the time it took finishing and polishing the CC I'd say winter 2011 is a more likely and yet still optimistic estimate.
Back to Iamien: so let me understand... You're worried that a 3 yo gfx card can't run a yet to be released game which is highly graphically intensive.
I'll repeat what I said in the OP. You'll be able to turn down the graphic detail in the settings like you can do on the CC and also what Tres Farmer said is probably true (though I don't think they'll reduce the poly count by much since they want to go for the hi def feeling). If that still doesn't work change your gfx card. It's an old card and not one of the best at that. You can get a slightly less older card for little money and it'll work better than what you've got anyway.
If you complain that you should not be forced to change your graphic card... I'm sorry, but that's just the way the market works. You can't release a product with outdated features. Be happy if your card is supported at all... You may be able to play at the lowest detail settings.
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Iamien on 05/01/2011 14:34:07
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
I'll repeat what I said in the OP. You'll be able to turn down the graphic detail in the settings like you can do on the CC and also what Tres Farmer said is probably true (though I don't think they'll reduce the poly count by much since they want to go for the hi def feeling). If that still doesn't work change your gfx card. It's an old card and not one of the best at that. You can get a slightly less older card for little money and it'll work better than what you've got anyway.
If you complain that you should not be forced to change your graphic card... I'm sorry, but that's just the way the market works. You can't release a product with outdated features. Be happy if your card is supported at all... You may be able to play at the lowest detail settings.
What part of the OP did you read as a rant/whine? The entire purpose of this thread is comparing the performance of the CC to how it will be in Incarna when we have 5-10+ characters on screen at once, irregardless of what hardware you run.
Unless you want to argue that the "right" hardware could handle 10+ full-detail models at the highest settings. Also, if you are not trolling man up and post with your main, that way we can tell who lacks reading comprehension.
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Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 16:30:00 -
[7]
I'm not trolling, I'm just saying that comparing the performances of the CC to a yet to be released game, with the benchmark being a 3 yo graphic card is hardly of any significance. If you are fearing for YOU then I've already answered, if you fear performance problems will hit the general population once Incarna is out... Incarna is not even in alpha test probably, so your concerns are quite unfounded as of yet.
That said, this is my main. It's a 5 yo character which most of the time sits in 0.0, last corp was Havoc, in -A- (though not anymore) and I fully intend to return there once I've got my computer science engineering degree, for which I'm writing the thesis. Does this satisfy you?
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Faolan Fortune
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Posted - 2011.01.05 18:07:00 -
[8]
Character creators usually are more intensive on a system, with all the calculations running while sculpting the body. Once that avatar is saved though, I'm sure the performance is increased quite a bit.
As for physx, it's usually a noticeable resource hog unless you have a dedicated card to it, especially for older cards and weaker CPUs.
Also as has been mentioned those saved avatars will probably get a reduction in their quality, and I've no doubt CCP has got a good LOD system in place. That with good level design should make Incarna run relatively well on an average system.
After all, they have been building this engine for the last half decade specifically designed for Incarna, and WOD too which will see a lot more avatars in the same environment.
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Narkhana
Gallente
Infinium Trading Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.05 19:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
I'm not trolling
Sure sounds like a troll to me. His concern as stated in the OP is valid for both himself AND the general EVE population. Not everyone has up-to-date video cards, and I'm sure a large portion uses laptops too. Extrapolating the performance of Incarna based on the current performance of the CC in a forum SPECIFICALLY for feedback on testing of said features is not unfounded.
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
once I've got my computer science engineering degree, for which I'm writing the thesis. Does this satisfy you?
Is it Computer Science, Computer Engineering, or Computer Science: Software Engineering? Last I checked those three are separate degrees (I have the second one myself), and since you're writing a thesis it must be a graduate degree therefore you REALLY should be specific on which one it is.
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Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.06 12:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Narkhana
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
I'm not trolling
Sure sounds like a troll to me. His concern as stated in the OP is valid for both himself AND the general EVE population. Not everyone has up-to-date video cards, and I'm sure a large portion uses laptops too. Extrapolating the performance of Incarna based on the current performance of the CC in a forum SPECIFICALLY for feedback on testing of said features is not unfounded.
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
once I've got my computer science engineering degree, for which I'm writing the thesis. Does this satisfy you?
Is it Computer Science, Computer Engineering, or Computer Science: Software Engineering? Last I checked those three are separate degrees (I have the second one myself), and since you're writing a thesis it must be a graduate degree therefore you REALLY should be specific on which one it is.
I doubt you checked italian universities, hmm?
That said, I'm not trolling. Like already two other guys have stated, most CCs for any game are often more detailed than the final product because you need the additional detail for sculpting. Out of date video cards are a concern up to a point. The final product is still going to be in the works for at least a year imho. In that year technology will progress and many people will change their graphic cards.
So I'm gonna repeat myself once more... Benchmarking an intentionally graphically intensive application with a 3yo graphic card that will be 4yo when the final product (most probably more optimized and less intensive anyway) will be released is kinda useless.
We don't know yet how Incarna will be and how well it'll scale. If at that time the problems will be still present, I'll report them myself. Now, it's useless.
OTOH, reporting that the CC is too heavy on many graphic cards, though a little dated, is a much more important thing to report, especially since it's been noted that client side detail affects the final result and thus lower end machines may have trouble obtaining certain results reliably.
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Nicholas Barker
Diabolus Ex Machina
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Posted - 2011.01.06 12:22:00 -
[11]
Didn't they state in the devblog ages ago that they'll use some advanced texture techniques to give the impression it's high poly, but really it'll be lower than what we see in the CC.
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0800-LAG-A-NODE
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Hans Armstrong
Caldari
Insurrection Inc
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Posted - 2011.01.06 19:05:00 -
[12]
So with all this talk about out of date graphic cards, I wanted to get some feedback on which graphic card brand I should be getting.
I normally would go with the ATI and was thinking of the 6850, because I wanted the AMD eyespeed technology. Or do I need to change over to a nvidia because of the Phys X.
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.06 19:51:00 -
[13]
Your answer.
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.06 20:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Your answer.
That is portraits, not Avatars when Incarna/WiS is launched.
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Uzrial
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Posted - 2011.01.06 20:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Iamien
Seems that even with average settings that rendering our characters with the hair physics and such is pretty taxing?
It is, and evidently the textures will only get even more taxing. The point is that when Incarna does come out, people wont be talking to faces they will be talking to people, the rendering software will not be throwing its awesomeness into every part of the body and all the bodies. The closer you zoom in to someone the better it will look, but when you are looking at a hundred people, I seriously doubt the rendering software will perfectly render in ultra quality textures every part of the bodies
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mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
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Posted - 2011.01.06 20:51:00 -
[16]
Incarna should be very taxing at full settings when it releases. I hope it is, and I hope it uses the full DX11 feature set as well.
eve was very demanding on release in 2003, yet the original version could happily be run on an iphone now.
All of the hair/cloth physics can be turned off by disabling APEX effects, so you should be able to crank down the settings. Of course it won't look as good, but that's generally what lower settings do ;)
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2011.01.07 18:47:00 -
[17]
Dont Worry.
By the time Incarna comes out for real we will all be running
shader model 23 compliant 10,000 photon cored Nvidia 250450xxx series Quad Ultra GTi's
Except for the tightwads still trying to run sm3 of course.
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Marak Mocam
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Posted - 2011.01.07 23:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Iamien
Seems that even with average settings that rendering our characters with the hair physics and such is pretty taxing?
How will this scale when we have 5+ Avatars in an environment? Will other player's avatars be the lowest quality, looking vastly different then how they were intended to look?
Or is it just a matter that avatars are only taxing while in the character creator?
I hope CCP is testing having multiple characters in an area on different benchmark machines or I fear Incarna could be a flop.
Are you talking full body avatars when Incarna eventually comes out?
If so -- you have already seen more avatars than 5 when you pick a bloodline & sex for your char. 1 female, 1 male of the 3 choices and they move around a bit while you're looking at them standing there.
The creation process is far more intense than the final rendering process - plus this is still beta and not finished. I'd say "go see for yourself" but the creation tool is messed up right now so you'll have to wait to see all 6 models again. Look at them before picking & clicking "next". They seem to move well with 6 so I'd imagine they'll work with even more.
If you're talking about "out of video resources" - that can happen if you go through each model, creating a character of each race... I hit an odd error about that while checking them out a bit -- it seems the caching is a tad off so about 12 or 18 characters worth of creation time (bring up -> add hair or what not, back & pick a different one...) and that error came up.
I'd guess that will be fixed prior to release as well but, again seems to be based upon character creation needs.
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Sonya Rayner
Unicorn Enterprise
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.01.07 23:36:00 -
[19]
Yeah, there were 6 characters during bloodline/gender selection, however, all of them (as far as i remember them) were bald. Nonetheless, there were no noticeable graphics lag there.
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Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
RED Citizens
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Posted - 2011.01.07 23:41:00 -
[20]
Check this out:
EVE Character Creator, PhysX CPU vs. GPU
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BECKS
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