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prevent non-noob manufacturing jobs in noob systems

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Sed Man Gallente PWH Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 02:17:00 - [1] It seems to me that its a little unfare how manufacturing facilities in noob systems are used by non noobs. When you are trying to do the career agents and they give you a BPC to build, but you cant, because all the manufacturing slots have been utilised by someone doing 3 days jobs. 3 day jobs are not noob jobs, someone has come back to the station to do their manufacturing jobs that arnt related to the noob career missions. This is really annoying, and it prevents or discourages noob players from completing the noob career missions. I propose that the noob systems manufacturing facilities only allow manufacturing jobs which last as long as the longest career agent BPC job assigned. this would prevent someone using a noob system to build their BS or other non-noob items. It would also ensure that noobs arn't required to trek around a region to get a manufacturing slot. There are other issues with noob systems, ex. vet players going to noob systems, scanning down the discover tutorial sites and stalking the 'proof of discovery' cans and taking the proof so that noobs can scan down the site but not get the loot as a vet has already taken it.... the vet puts the proof on the contract system to sell back to the noob.... this is outright farked up and should be stopped at a game level. CCP should be doing everything it can to restrict the abuse that can happen in noob systems. It prevents new toons from completing their career agents, and even if 1 customer gets turned off by the situation, its one too many.
Okie Wren	Posted - 2011.01.09 02:27:00 - [2] I agree but find a different way to do apply the restriction. Character age perhaps, like that implant that only works until you reach 35 days old. And yes to the other thing
Selinate Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2011.01.09 02:28:00 - [3] Fair enough. Supported.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.09 02:38:00 - [4] If CCP had any business sense, they wouldn't have tolerated grieving in so many ways, from 2mil wardecs to insanely profitable suicide ganks. Each griefer costs hundreds of subscriptions and tens of thousands of dollars. Case in point, certain tutorial agents are still sending noobs to lowsec missions, and pirates are still permarunning-smartbombing noobships there. In other words, don't count on CCP doing anything.
Van Derka	Posted - 2011.01.09 03:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Okie Wren I agree but find a different way to do apply the restriction. Character age perhaps, like that implant that only works until you reach 35 days old. And yes to the other thing good point, maybe a second amanufacturing facility at each noob station, being only for toons less than 30 days old. They do need to sort out the proof of discovery situation also but I dont hold out much hope for CCP fixing that issue.
Karn Velora	Posted - 2011.01.09 04:12:00 - [6] Edited by: Karn Velora on 09/01/2011 04:12:21 In one way or another, definitely. I remember doing the different nubbie tutorials on an alt, and I had to dart into low sec to do the jobs. Bad planning. It's not much to ask that nubs get to do their tutorials quickly and easily.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.09 04:14:00 - [7] CCP bends over backwards to accommodate griefers in order to think out its subscription base.
Bunyip Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.09 04:51:00 - [8] Edited by: Bunyip on 09/01/2011 04:51:43 Manufacturing slots are somewhat limited, which is why players do this. It's not necessarily griefing, just producing goods at the location you wish to sell them. However, I agree that the manufacturing slots in new player arc systems should be limited to younger players only. I support this proposal. ======== "The civilized man is rude, for he knows that laws protect him from recompense; whereas the savage is not, for his actions can meet a bloody end." - Robert E. Howard
Kin Taku	Posted - 2011.01.09 05:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Goose99 CCP bends over backwards to accommodate griefers in order to think out its subscription base. I dont think this is griefing, just a lack of vision from CCP. CCP often find people using ligitimate methods of play which have undesireable results. In this instance, I agree, make some system to ensure toons <30 days get a manufacturing slot in noob stations.
Okie Wren	Posted - 2011.01.09 05:42:00 - [10] While we're tinkering with research slots, why not rework the POS labs a bit to make them truly public and then remove all but a small amount of station lab slots (leave a few for the noobz of course). This would make the research business more player oriented. It would also be a good opportunity to rework POS's themseves (thinking of the dead horse here). Though it would remove a large ISK sink which would need to be addressed.
Sed Man PWH Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 05:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Okie Wren While we're tinkering with research slots, why not rework the POS labs a bit to make them truly public and then remove all but a small amount of station lab slots (leave a few for the noobz of course). This would make the research business more player oriented. It would also be a good opportunity to rework POS's themseves (thinking of the dead horse here). Though it would remove a large ISK sink which would need to be addressed. Dont take it off topic, this is just to ensure that the tutorial and career missions can be completed, nothing else. Research slots are not required for the career missions, manufacturing slots however are required.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.09 07:22:00 - [12] Uhm.. how much of travelling around to find an empty manufacturing slot are we talking about here? 3 jumps? I'd rather see that manufacturing jobs installed with this particular BPC cost nothing and the noob in question has to learn to find a station with an empty slot first (science window/installations). TL;DR: Not in favor of spoon feeding. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Okie Wren	Posted - 2011.01.09 08:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Sed Man Dont take it off topic, this is just to ensure that the tutorial and career missions can be completed, nothing else. Research slots are not required for the career missions, manufacturing slots however are required. Jeez, don't get your panties in a twist.. I only suggested it incase someone of some importance read this thread, CCP staff or CSM.. you know, rather than make a whole new thread on it.
Van Derka	Posted - 2011.01.09 09:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Tres Farmer Uhm.. how much of travelling around to find an empty manufacturing slot are we talking about here? 3 jumps? I'd rather see that manufacturing jobs installed with this particular BPC cost nothing and the noob in question has to learn to find a station with an empty slot first (science window/installations). TL;DR: Not in favor of spoon feeding. You failed to make any argument. Everyone playing this game learns every time they play. Preventing noobs from completing their career missions is against the EULA, but its not my responsibility to police this, its CCP's. Its in their intersts to ensure that noob players become regular players. The current situation is that noobs are a soft target which weak players abuse for their own sense of fun. NP with that, but IMP I'd rather abuse someone who knows what there doing and win, than taking candy from the babies.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.09 09:15:00 - [15] One way of addressing this issue would be to place "maximum duration" limits on assembly lines, thus noob corp assembly lines would take jobs up to a maximum of 3 hours, assembly or logistics stations would allow a maximum of a week, other station types in the middle ground. POS assembly arrays will have no limit. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.09 10:12:00 - [16] When the tutorial missions were introduced there weren't industrial facilities in the starting stations. Doing them with a alt I clearly recall going to a production facility 10 jumps from the noob system to produce the famed perpetual motion machine, now, from what I see all the starting stations have a production facility. A noticeable improvement. Seeing people that ask on the forum or local how they can produce/research as the slot are already filled I don't think that teaching from the start that science and industry jobs can be queued is a bad thing. Adding a "noob only" or similar option for some factory will require some serious reprogramming of the S&I system. If we go that way it would be worth going the whole mile and redo it completely.
KaarBaak Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2011.01.09 10:59:00 - [17] The OP seems to be half-stepping this concept. If this amount of work is going to be put into coddling new players and creating a false sense of how EvE works, then the logical conclusion is to create a "newb island.". A system that has a one-way jumpgate, so that it can only be populated by new players with no interaction whatsoever with experienced players. The griefing bit with the mission loot is also a fact of EvE life. Better to learn such things earlier rather than take a perverted view of how the game works out to the "real world" of New Eden. You're simply creating the next generation of whiners. KB Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
Trebor Daehdoow	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:23:00 - [18] Not an unreasonable idea, subject to the usual implementation gotchas. Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician The most expensive free trip to Iceland you'll ever win!
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Not an unreasonable idea, subject to the usual implementation gotchas. I suspect that the current job time limit of 30 days or 1 run (whichever is longer) is a hard-coded global setting, rather than something that can easily be adjusted for some stations but not others. Instead of removing any of the existing slots, I would suggest adding some new factory slots in the starter systems that can only be used for building items required for the tutorial missions. This would probably be easier to do, as there are already lots of restrictions in place on what can be built where. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Van Derka Originally by: Tres Farmer Uhm.. how much of travelling around to find an empty manufacturing slot are we talking about here? 3 jumps? I'd rather see that manufacturing jobs installed with this particular BPC cost nothing and the noob in question has to learn to find a station with an empty slot first (science window/installations). TL;DR: Not in favor of spoon feeding. You failed to make any argument. Everyone playing this game learns every time they play. Preventing noobs from completing their career missions is against the EULA, but its not my responsibility to police this, its CCP's. Its in their intersts to ensure that noob players become regular players. The current situation is that noobs are a soft target which weak players abuse for their own sense of fun. NP with that, but IMP I'd rather abuse someone who knows what there doing and win, than taking candy from the babies. Is the manufacturing of that noob-thing restricted to noob stations? Is the volume of either the bpc or the raw material or the finished item bigger than a noob ship can handle? Doesn't the noob learn before this manufacturing how to fly a spaceship, how to dock/undock or how to use a stargate? support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Melcairwen Taldir Aliastra	Posted - 2011.01.09 20:32:00 - [21] sounds reasonable
Worgen Fratmon Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.09 21:08:00 - [22] I'm not sure that limiting the manufacuring facilities to those less than 30 days old is the best idea, because anyone may do the tutorials, regardless of character age. How about some sort of flag that only allows the slot usage only for those currently doing tutorial missions?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2011.01.09 21:36:00 - [23] Initially I was in full agreement of this. But now that I've thought about this... not supporting this. I don't hear of this particular issue... in fact this is the first time. I ran across a manufacturing job from a mission agent... didn't have a problem finding a slot... and it was a noob system. I agree to the problem being a problem... but there is no problem IMHO. It's not really that hard to find slots.... most manufacturers travel to quieter systems but try to keep close to market hubs for a reason. Course my information is based more so in Minmatar Space... so I suppose it could be a problem elsewhere... even then... I don't really hear about this from say my Alliance mates or other contacts.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:48:00 - [24] I guess noobs don't need equipment and like to pay more then everyone else.

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