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The CSM wants to get rid of Jump Bridges.

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Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.16 01:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/01/2011 00:04:21I'm not sure there's any cost big enough to justify being able to instantly transport blobs everywhere. Apparently, as costly as it is, it isn't nearly enough of a deterrent because alliances still slap them everywhere so their members can zoom around when and wherever they want. Actually our post-Dominion jump bridge network is much less extensive than the one we had pre-Dominion. Admittedly our circumstances are somewhat different in Deklein than they were in Delve, but the associated Sov costs have deterred us from going too crazy with bridges everywhere like we did when the only expense was the fuel for the POSs that the jump bridges were set up at. -----------------
Kahega Amielden T.R.I.A.D	Posted - 2011.01.16 02:25:00 - [32] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/01/2011 02:26:05 Quote: Actually our post-Dominion jump bridge network is much less extensive than the one we had pre-Dominion. Admittedly our circumstances are somewhat different in Deklein than they were in Delve, but the associated Sov costs have deterred us from going too crazy with bridges everywhere like we did when the only expense was the fuel for the POSs that the jump bridges were set up at. Perhaps, but being able to go to every single system via Jb isn't really the issue, it's more about the ability to traverse huge distances quickly. How long does it take you to get from one end of your space to the other without jumpbridges? How long does it take WITH jump bridges?
Cellistara	Posted - 2011.01.16 03:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/01/2011 02:26:05 Quote: Actually our post-Dominion jump bridge network is much less extensive than the one we had pre-Dominion. Admittedly our circumstances are somewhat different in Deklein than they were in Delve, but the associated Sov costs have deterred us from going too crazy with bridges everywhere like we did when the only expense was the fuel for the POSs that the jump bridges were set up at. Perhaps, but being able to go to every single system via Jb isn't really the issue, it's more about the ability to traverse huge distances quickly. How long does it take you to get from one end of your space to the other without jumpbridges? How long does it take WITH jump bridges? Most of the bridges I've seen only allow you to skip 1 or 2 systems, or jump from a short deadend pipe to the main routes.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.01.16 03:05:00 - [34] Originally by: White Tree Tell us more about your great ideas you collective conglomerate of mind-numbingly ignorant animals. Couldn't said it better myself. Dear CSM members, who the hell do you think you are to agree to such a radical change in gameplay with many bad consequences, particularly for basic alliance members, without even consulting the community you represent in a respectable manner? Assembly Hall is just a place where the community can suggest something, but on the other hand, you somehow think you have the power to skip the procedure and just agree with something this dumb? If you want a solution against mobile blobs, be creative or leave things as they are until you find a solution that doesn't include ruining the game for a "grunt".
Alexandra Lingwa Caldari CALIMA COLLABORATIVE	Posted - 2011.01.16 03:07:00 - [35] If they remove jump bridges then they should remove titan bridges as well, because both follow under the same logic. Hell why not remove jump freighters, and make all logistics be done by industrials/freighters. _____ Where am I? Who are you? and where is my horse?
Dr Cheeto Minmatar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.16 03:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Medidranda Livoga Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 15/01/2011 21:44:03 This would be accompanied by cyno nerf and possible titan bridge nerf AND jump range nerf you know... Honestly, what's the difference between one cyno alt and two cyno alts, besides more money for CCP? It's amazing that you idiots don't see that this will benefit the people with the ISK for **ting supercapitals more than any group of plucky individuals looking to establish a modest space fiefdom in 0.0. Here's a thought: rebalance moon goo so that tech isn't god-tier. When the price for maintaining jump bridges was increased, the NC jumpbridge map didn't change much. However, Atlas had to cut theirs back, because they can't depend on a giant ISK printing machine sitting pretty in their backyard. Seeing as how the NC jumpbridge map is the only one with lines connecting **ing everywhere, targeting a change there would be logical.
The Offerer	Posted - 2011.01.16 03:59:00 - [37] Edited by: The Offerer on 16/01/2011 04:01:00 Originally by: Dr Cheeto Here's a thought: rebalance moon goo so that tech isn't god-tier. Or: shift to "Moon Interaction". Moon goo as a passive income has been monopolized by alliances. Individual players have no control over the price and quantities put on the market now. Make some healthy competition by introducing partial (or total) Moon Interaction. That way even your spies can be useful for something and the access is not limited to political entities, but expanded to individual players. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.16 05:56:00 - [38] Hm.. wasn't it always a compliant that the CSM would be voted into their chairs by the big power blocs of zero-zero? And yet, here we are with this one-voted-JB-nerf-on-the-horizon.. kewl As most will know by now I'm in favour of space that feels big and takes some time to traverse. I'm also no fan of the jumpgates themself as they cause artificial bottlenecks that makes going around low/null so freaking dangerous, which in turn causes the JumpBridges and JumpDrives to be so OP. No one would use JDs and JBs if JGs wouldn't be the bottleneck they are. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Marlona Sky Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.01.16 06:49:00 - [39] It's funny to see power block members protest the removal of jump bridges because it would hurt small alliances.
Ephemeron Lubricous Rebel Alliance of New Eden	Posted - 2011.01.16 06:49:00 - [40] I happen to believe that jump bridges are really bad for PvP in general, but in particular for small roaming gangs. I remember the days when EVE had no jump bridges, and things were much more alive than they are now. Now there are faces in local, but no ships anywhere, hardly any travel, sudden blob formations and blob teleportations. It's bad for strategy, bad for the game

Dr Cheeto Minmatar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.16 06:50:00 - [41] Edited by: Dr Cheeto on 16/01/2011 06:53:37 Edited by: Dr Cheeto on 16/01/2011 06:50:17 Originally by: Tres Farmer Hm.. wasn't it always a compliant that the CSM would be voted into their chairs by the big power blocs of zero-zero? And yet, here we are with this one-voted-JB-nerf-on-the-horizon.. kewl As most will know by now I'm in favour of space that feels big and takes some time to traverse. I'm also no fan of the jumpgates themself as they cause artificial bottlenecks that makes going around low/null so freaking dangerous, which in turn causes the JumpBridges and JumpDrives to be so OP. No one would use JDs and JBs if JGs wouldn't be the bottleneck they are. Please sit down and learn something about jumpdrives and jumpbridges. Originally by: Marlona Sky It's funny to see power block members protest the removal of jump bridges because it would hurt small alliances. It's funny to see hisec mission runners give their opinion as to why jump bridges should be removed. Originally by: Ephemeron I happen to believe that jump bridges are really bad for PvP in general, but in particular for small roaming gangs. I remember the days when EVE had no jump bridges, and things were much more alive than they are now. Now there are faces in local, but no ships anywhere, hardly any travel, sudden blob formations and blob teleportations. It's bad for strategy, bad for the game I hear that warp at zero was bad for roaming gangs, too, maybe we should roll that back as well. Seriously if you can't figure out how to camp a well-traveled jumpbridge route you are pretty bad at this game. Also if you're complaining about blob teleportations then you should probably go ahead and whine about titan bridges as well.
PTang	Posted - 2011.01.16 06:56:00 - [42] but almost all of the csm are power block leadership.
Dr Cheeto Minmatar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.16 06:58:00 - [43] Originally by: PTang but almost all of the csm are power block leadership. Which is really odd, as I would assume that they would have immediately recognized how this would simply make richer, larger blocs more powerfu...oh wait.
Ephemeron Lubricous Rebel Alliance of New Eden	Posted - 2011.01.16 07:15:00 - [44] Edited by: Ephemeron on 16/01/2011 07:18:21 Quote: I hear that warp at zero was bad for roaming gangs, too, maybe we should roll that back as well. Wrong. I was one of the people suggesting to CCP to implement warp to 0 option. I don't think it's bad for pvp at all. Quote: Seriously if you can't figure out how to camp a well-traveled jumpbridge route you are pretty bad at this game. I have examined the mechanics on how jump bridge camping can be done. And I just don't like it. It's not very user friendly, unlike gate camping, which is open to any casual player who wants to pvp. When there's a choice between gate pvp and jump bridge PvP, stargate is a clear winner. Quote: Also if you're complaining about blob teleportations then you should probably go ahead and whine about titan bridges as well. I already argue against titan bridges by proposing changes to cyno mechanics and possible addition of mobile cyno jammer.
Marlona Sky Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.01.16 07:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Dr Cheeto Originally by: Marlona Sky It's funny to see power block members protest the removal of jump bridges because it would hurt small alliances. It's funny to see hisec mission runners give their opinion as to why jump bridges should be removed. I'm outlaw...
Dymdr proISKi Ltd Red Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.16 11:00:00 - [46] Thats probably the worst idea ever from CCP. Its even worse than our sweet structure-grinding-sov-mechanics. And CSM has proven theyre completely useless and even harmful. None of the issues that really needs to be fixed are going to be fixed. Drakes being the out-of-the-line best choise bc? Theyre ok. Gallentes being crap? It works as designed. Dramiels making all other frigates useless? It can wait. Instead they agree to add more boring stuff to nullsec life. Good job CSM.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.01.16 11:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Jason Edwards My suggestion is change amarr outpost bonus from 30% time to 30% mineral. This gives a huge boost to manufacturing in 0.0 as opposed to elsewhere. People then do it there. You then need minerals there and mining in 0.0 becomes further boosted. What Would Actually Happen: People build 425mm railguns 24/7 at the new stations for 70% of the usual cost. Haul them to refinery outpost in neighbouring system ??? Profit! Net result - even less mining / hauling than at present --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Kellistra	Posted - 2011.01.16 11:36:00 - [48] Jump bridges have there uses... perhaps a limit of one jump bridge per constellation would provide a balance
Rudgier Thorrin Blyskawica	Posted - 2011.01.16 12:48:00 - [49] I belive, that upon executing this change CCP will learn a new meaning for "Unholy Rage". Also I hope, that information about the timetable for this change will be given in advance, so I can sell all my stuff on ebay and be done with it. If I wanted to fly around stargates all day I'd stay in highsec. Having to waste 3-4 hours just to go and sell my stuff every week is not something I want to pay for, and I belive it is a feeling most of 0.0 citizens share. Quote: Apparently the current CSM suffered a case of mass brain death when the topic came up. That or CCP is drugging their Kool-Aid. I couldn't agree more.
SerratedX Malevolence.	Posted - 2011.01.16 12:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Dymdr Drakes being the out-of-the-line best choise bc? Theyre ok. Gallentes being crap? It works as designed. Dramiels making all other frigates useless? It can wait. If you took your head out of your ass and looked at CSM proposals these are all things that CSM is working to fix. Blame CCP not CSM.

Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:10:00 - [51] Originally by: Kellistra Jump bridges have there uses... perhaps a limit of one jump bridge per constellation would provide a balance when someone came up with this idea a couple of weeks ago, I did understood the reason why it should be removed, but then I also thought that an outright removal would be too radical. so I thought that same thing . Logistics-wise, nowadays it isn't that hard to supply stuffs from/to empire since you have JF's, and back then when I was more embroiled on nullsec, invasions actually took some preparation. nowadays it's more of a "head to bridge, bypass everything" kind of move. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Dymdr Thats probably the worst idea ever from CCP. Its even worse than our sweet structure-grinding-sov-mechanics. Quote: However, one CSM [name withheld for safety reasons ] suggested, with respect to the nerfing of jump bridges, ôget rid of them.ö Quote: Greyscale: ôSweet!ö Quote: As a result of this discussion, Greyscale committed to investigating the possibilities and consequences of the following changes ifas and when time was allocated to do sostuff: No drones on supercarriers, jump-bridges die the true death, supercarriers become tier-III carriers, storage of supercapitals, and cyno spoolup. Not CCP suggestion, even if CCP Greyscale was fast enough in accepting it.
Marlona Sky Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:18:00 - [53] It's time to put effort back into 0.0 logistics and power projection. If you are too lazy for the logistics part than I suggest you go back to high sec. If you are too lazy to travel 30 jumps to find a fight then I suggest you not blue everything within 30 jumps. That or go to low sec. People lived in all reaches of 0.0 long before jump bridges. That was also before jump frieghters, blockade runners with covert ops cloaks, black ops with covert bridge which blockade runners could take and worm holes that can connect high sec to 0.0 systems. There is simply far too many 0.0 residents that can't pop Jita's tit out of their mouth. Far too many that feel that they should be able to zip across the map with little to no effort simple to blob out some small entity who just set up a small POS 50 jumps away. But please, keep the tears flowing that are bases of a possibility that jump bridges might be removed and because of that, your entire hope of survival in 0.0 is crushed. They taste delicious!
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Dr Cheeto Originally by: PTang but almost all of the csm are power block leadership. Which is really odd, as I would assume that they would have immediately recognized how this would simply make richer, larger blocs more powerfu...oh wait. Please explain how changing jump bridges could possibly make power-blocs more powerful relative to small independent space-holding alliances when at current there aren't any small independent space-holding alliances? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Rudgier Thorrin Blyskawica	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Marlona Sky It's time to put effort back into 0.0 logistics and power projection. If you are too lazy for the logistics part than I suggest you go back to high sec. If you are too lazy to travel 30 jumps to find a fight then I suggest you not blue everything within 30 jumps. That or go to low sec. People lived in all reaches of 0.0 long before jump bridges. That was also before jump frieghters, blockade runners with covert ops cloaks, black ops with covert bridge which blockade runners could take and worm holes that can connect high sec to 0.0 systems. There is simply far too many 0.0 residents that can't pop Jita's tit out of their mouth. Far too many that feel that they should be able to zip across the map with little to no effort simple to blob out some small entity who just set up a small POS 50 jumps away. But please, keep the tears flowing that are bases of a possibility that jump bridges might be removed and because of that, your entire hope of survival in 0.0 is crushed. They taste delicious! In other words: if you have a life and don't want to pay RL money for hours of "click gate -> click warp to 0 -> click jump -> repeat 30 times to get anywhere " then gtfo, we hardcore basement PVPers are so much better than thou
Pirokobo Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:41:00 - [56] Edited by: Pirokobo on 16/01/2011 13:45:47 Originally by: The Offerer Edited by: The Offerer on 16/01/2011 04:01:00 Originally by: Dr Cheeto Here's a thought: rebalance moon goo so that tech isn't god-tier. Or: shift to "Moon Interaction". I don't think you understand how broken technetium is. We own something like a tenth of the technetium moons in the game and we're saying "this ** is way broken". Make us less rich, our enemies can't afford nice ships for us to shoot. Moon mining itself is sorta a good mechanic as it is, it gives alliances a resource that is easy to nationalize (a rare thing in a game hinged on individual effort). But technetium was obviously imbalanced when the changes were ANNOUNCED. We have a five... BILLION... isk daily surplus. Muahahahahah MUAHAHAHAHAHA MUHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA**. https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlIIq5agK7rWdDRnaWwzMVRrYTFCTG1sZEJhTWN1Z1E&hl=en&authkey=CMng2u0B#gid=5
Marlona Sky Global Criminal Countdown	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Rudgier Thorrin In other words: if you have a life and don't want to pay RL money for hours of "click gate -> click warp to 0 -> click jump -> repeat 30 times to get anywhere " then gtfo, we hardcore basement PVPers are so much better than thou Don't blue as many people and you won't have to travel 30 jumps to get a fight. Is this concept really that difficult?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:48:00 - [58] It is also how everyone outside 0.0 does it, but yeah most importantly it means you shouldnt be in center of enormous nap.
Wandom Wapist	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:49:00 - [59] Edited by: Wandom Wapist on 16/01/2011 13:50:16 Originally by: Rudgier Thorrin In other words: if you have a life and don't want to pay RL money for hours of "click gate -> click warp to 0 -> click jump -> repeat 30 times to get anywhere " then gtfo, we hardcore basement PVPers are so much better than thou Don't blue everything within 30 jumps then
Dierdra Vaal	Posted - 2011.01.16 13:51:00 - [60] Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 16/01/2011 13:58:51 Removing jumpbridges was discussed as a hypothetical situation. And considering some of the biggest problems currently in 0.0 are: * force projection: being able to move a large fleet quickly over big distances negates any strategical decisions on where to commit your fleet and trivialises distance in Eve * protection through jumpbridges: jumpbridges and deathstar POSes make travel (over possibly large 0.0 distances) essentially risk free ...it is only natural to discuss the mechanics that facilitate these problems - this includes Jump Bridges. However, you're going too far if you think CCP is currently planning to remove jump bridges. And don't worry, both the CSM and CCP are well aware that old school freighter escorts aren't really possible anymore. Any changes to 0.0 infrastructure mechanics (for which there are currently no concrete plans) will not happen without consideration for the problems they could create. I think this quote from Greyscale sums it up the best: Quote: [CCP has] gone [too far] in the direction of making players lives easy û we've got jump freighters and jump bridges and all this [stuff] û and I think there is an agreement here [at CCP] that we want to pull back from that. We would like to pull back as far as we can get away with. But how far can we go? Everyone here who is complaining that they don't want to fly 30 jumps to get to PvP and therefore "need jumpbridges" are looking at it the wrong way. The problem isn't that you need jump bridges. The problem is that you can't find PVP closer to home. Instead of having large NAPed coalitions controlling vast amounts of space (in part due to force projection and jump networks), why not work towards a 0.0 with many different factions? Where the people you pvp against are right next door, and you can safely ignore people who live on the other side of the galaxy? Where you have more small scale fights that don't immediately get hotdropped by a few bored supercarrier pilots? It's not going to happen overnight (and with the current mechanics: never), but would it not make for a more entertaining 0.0? In order to explore possible solutions, we need to be able to discuss radical changes on a hypothetical level. And that was exactly what we were doing. * * * Director of Education :: EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman



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