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Extraction output units/hr for PI

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Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:02:00 - [1] First, this isn't a complaint about about the inability to make p3 on one planet. This is a complaint about output per hour seems to jumping around: I've placed my ECU and a nice "hot zone." I then added 8 extractor heads. The output per hour is rated at 90k units when I do a one hour cycle. None of the units are overlapping (no red % number off). When I install the program it gives me way lower number (70k per hour) than originally said. Even worse...if I cancel that cycle and restart another the number is completely different again (44k for instance). There is no logic to what how many I will get....making planning near impossible. Is the cancelling of the cycle causing the output to change? tl;dr output estimate vs. output actual does not match. What's the point of having an estimate if it isn't even close? Planning near impossible.
Mirac Factar Gallente Hypergolic	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:23:00 - [2] The estimate is based of what your planetology skills indicate the distribution of resources is i.e what you see on the heatmaps too The output is based on the Actual distribution of minerals is. The better your planetology and advanced planetology skills are the closer these numbers will get. This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery.
Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Mirac Factar The estimate is based of what your planetology skills indicate the distribution of resources is i.e what you see on the heatmaps too The output is based on the Actual distribution of minerals is. The better your planetology and advanced planetology skills are the closer these numbers will get. Isn't that a big swing as far as percentage. Both of my planetology skills are at a 4. Getting less than 50% of estimate is a big swing.
Hellaciouss Genco	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Mirac Factar The estimate is based of what your planetology skills indicate the distribution of resources is i.e what you see on the heatmaps too The output is based on the Actual distribution of minerals is. The better your planetology and advanced planetology skills are the closer these numbers will get. He'a at 4/4 (as he mentioned in another thread) and I am at 4/4. I'm sorry but having both at 4/4 should not show you as mining 80k when in fact you're only mining 40k. Maybe only level 3 in basic planetology should do this but at 4/4 I expect far better results...a drop in 40k is just dumb when you have 4/4, so I am going to still assume something is completely screwed in the system until ccp shines some light on the subject.
Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:46:00 - [5] Just moved the extractor to another location.....similar results. 90k estimate....less than 62k was the initial result. So thats about 1/3 drop. First install 90k estimate 61500 actual. Canceled 1 hr cycle. Second install 90k estimate 60297 actual. Canceled 1 hr cycle. Third install 90k estimate 56520 actual. Canceled 1 hr cycle. Four install 90k estimate 52242 actual. Canceled 1 hr cycle. Fifth install 90k estimate 48498 actual. Canceled 1 hr cycle. So the pattern is obvious. It seems like the units are depleted and wasted if you end up canceling a program. I'm going to wait an hour and re-run the program to see what effects it has on extraction rates.
Hellaciouss Genco	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:55:00 - [6] ok on a 5 hour cycle with 4/4 scanning skills I went from 297k total to 202k total. That is not an acceptable drop with 4/4...
Sam Brockson Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.19 04:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Gamingloser1 This is a complaint about output per hour seems to jumping around: If you are referring to the numbers under Output (Output per hour and total output) on the bottom right of the ECU survey screen, the Per Hour number displayed is a percentage of the Total Output and at best used as an average to keep your extractors running. I have noticed on a 5 hour run, the Per Hour percentage displayed is 20% of the Total Output and 10% on a 10 hour run. So far, from my experimentation, it's best to move the drill heads around for maximum output - usually only one head is in the center of a red spot, a few are on the fringe between red and orange, and the rest between orange and yellow.
Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 05:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Gamingloser1 on 19/01/2011 05:14:28 Originally by: Sam Brockson Originally by: Gamingloser1 This is a complaint about output per hour seems to jumping around: If you are referring to the numbers under Output (Output per hour and total output) on the bottom right of the ECU survey screen, the Per Hour number displayed is a percentage of the Total Output and at best used as an average to keep your extractors running. All of my numbers have been strictly using a one hour cycle. So units per hour = units total. So I exited out of planetary mode and went back to planet that I was quoting 90k/hr. Now it is quoting 79501 unit/hr (again 1 hr cycle). I did not move any pins or and I have not started any other programs. So again.....units/hr is quite dynamic. If this is truly the way CCP intended....units per hour is a waste (confusing at best) and should not be used for planning purposes. Any PI newbs out there want give us some quotes on actual vs estimate? Please be sure to list levels of both planetology skills?
Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 05:45:00 - [9] Just installed another one hour program: Estimate was 79501 and actual was 47166. Pins/ECU were not moved.
Ilena Grace Power and Friendship and Heroism	Posted - 2011.01.19 06:48:00 - [10] Edited by: Ilena Grace on 19/01/2011 06:48:40 the hourly output figure in the survey window is the AVERAGE hourly output (of the complete extraction cycle), it is NOT the output of the moment.

Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:10:00 - [11] ok one last time before I simply advise you to DELETE all of your characters and accounts so your never ever tempted to come back to EVE online, LOOK AT THE GRAPH that is sitting RIGHT IN THE BLOODY MIDDLE OF THAT SCREEN you notice that the curve is not a simple semetrical curve and that it has bumps and spikes in it, often that first set of spikes is HIGHER than your initial production run. Aparently someone went on break and chuckged down a keg of red bull syrup or something now compare that FIRST colum to your output, It should match exactly. Now look at that number to the far right, depending on how long you set it it will be either lower or higher than that innitial run. because its the average of ALL of the production cycles for that Extractor head. if you set it for a fairly short run, the odds are quite good that it will be a bit higher than your first produciton output as your production hits that first spike. If its a longer cycle, then obviously its going to be a lot lower than your actual output on that first production cycle, (unless you set a 2 or 4 hour cycle. Also, that right side per hour is PER BLOODY HOUR! your first run can be as short as 15 min, or 30,so do the math and see how "off" it is. Now If after I explained it to you you STILL feel the need to say "But Im not getting the production I was promised by that right hand number!!!!!1!!1!!!1" then just follow the following steps to correct your problem, Go to your log in screen, Bio mass all of your characters Wait 10 hours complete termination Log out of EvE online Go to the account management screen and cancle your accounts. find a game thats more your speed and base comprehension level. may I recomend a game like wow or Free relms. No I am not kidding. your obviously not smart enough to play EvE online. end of line.
Sigras	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:14:00 - [12] Im having an interesting and unique problem, im mining a gas planet in 0.0 for Ionic Solutions. All of my Hats are in place and my program time is 5 days 18 hours (138 Hours) the Output after the job has been started reads: Per Hour: 12,112 Total: 1,671,592 This seems right to me because 1,671,592 / 138 = 12,112.98 (so im getting ripped off one unit per hour) Im on cycle 3, so cycle 2 is clearly over, but something is wrong; when I mouse over cycle 2, (my highest cycle) it says: Cycle 2 85,772 units Accumulated: 151,787 Units 4 Hours 37,946 Per Hour which also makes sense because the first hour is 66,015 units making the total of the two hours the accumulated, and the average per hour correct too, however the place that Ive routed the materials to is empty, and the only draw is two basic industry units making electrolytes. Each one uses 6,000 units per hour, so in the two hours since they've received cycle two, (assuming they were empty when the cycle finished) they could have used at most 30,000 units, so where did the other 55,000 units go?
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/01/2011 07:23:26 did you account for each processors buffer? each processor can hold 3000 P1 units before fireing off a production run. if they filled exactly on the first run then thats where it went. oh and what did you use for storage?
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:28:00 - [14] and one last thing, you did make sure that you have product going out of the ECT to storage, and from storage to the processor(and that your Not useing the CC for storage in that setup given that it can only hold 50,000 P0 units to start with)
Sigras	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Sigras on 19/01/2011 07:29:03 Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/01/2011 07:23:26 did you account for each processors buffer? each processor can hold 3000 P1 units before fireing off a production run. if they filled exactly on the first run then thats where it went. oh and what did you use for storage? I used a storage facility for storage, so it isnt for lack of space, and yeah they can hold 3k units of the P0 mat before starting a run, but when I looked at them, they were empty and also that still doesnt account for the missing 49,000 P0 the graph indicates I should have had . . . perhaps im reading something wrong? but im pretty sure im not. Oh and BTW Planetology 4 Advanced Planetology 4 Originally by: Steve Thomas and one last thing, you did make sure that you have product going out of the ECT to storage, and from storage to the processor(and that your Not useing the CC for storage in that setup given that it can only hold 50,000 P0 units to start with) Yeah the reactor is routed, i made sure of that.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/01/2011 07:33:00 Originally by: Sigras Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/01/2011 07:23:26 did you account for each processors buffer? each processor can hold 3000 P1 units before fireing off a production run. if they filled exactly on the first run then thats where it went. oh and what did you use for storage? I used a storage facility for storage, so it isnt for lack of space, and yeah they can hold 3k units of the P0 mat before starting a run, but when I looked at them, they were empty and also that still doesnt account for the missing 49,000 P0 the graph indicates I should have had . . . perhaps im reading something wrong? but im pretty sure im not. Oh and BTW Planetology 4 Advanced Planetology 4 Did you double check that each step (From extractor to storage and storage to processor then back to storage) had product going to the next step. Ive dumped entire days extraction at the head from forgetting to make sure had all my links set edit missed your reply im a bit stumped, you did get the finished goods back from the first run right?
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:42:00 - [17] http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Stevethomas/A_longer_guide_to_PI.pdf Go to page 13 to see what I ment earlyer. then double check your extractor. If its showing that everything was routed it will show up in one line white. if only part of it was routed for some reason or if you changed the production run after doing a test setup (Ie moved the heads and added heads) it will sometimes purge the routing data because it assumes you changed the production completly and may need to rebuild the route. or if you simply stoped, changed the production time and then restarted it may be sending the wrong amount to the storage and then dumping the rest, just purge the existing rout and reset it.
Sigras	Posted - 2011.01.19 07:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Sigras on 19/01/2011 07:58:11 Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/01/2011 07:33:00 Did you double check that each step (From extractor to storage and storage to processor then back to storage) had product going to the next step. Ive dumped entire days extraction at the head from forgetting to make sure had all my links set edit missed your reply im a bit stumped, you did get the finished goods back from the first run right? Yeah I double checked all of the routes, theres a route going from my ECU to my storage facility, and one from my storage facility to each processor, and yes I am getting my electrolytes from my processors, so it seems that everything is in working order, its just that my ECU isnt producing enough. Interesting that when I click on routes, it says 15,566 as the quantity; I have no idea where theyre getting that number from as that doesnt seem right at all. Im fairly certain im doing this right but I have no idea why this isnt producing the result im expecting. EDIT: Unfortunately this is my only example as this was the only extractor/processor set that was empty at the time of this PI reset.
AS LordASB	Posted - 2011.01.19 09:22:00 - [19] Edited by: AS LordASB on 19/01/2011 09:24:11 hi P = level 5 AP = level 4 remote sensing 4 command center 5 interplantary 5 i am also getting the same, got a planet making biomass, placed 5 heads down, on 14days i have had 2 completed runs so far of 4 hours each, each 4 hour set is listed as 40957 per hour for each hour of that 4 hours, second one is 39844 per hour. now in the bottom right its listed as 7716 units per hour i emptyed the lunchpad so i know how much biomass has been made at 220 which is 11 completed runs of 3000 units via 2 factories, this totals only 33000 units of p0 total production. looking at the chart its listed as accumalated total units as 318759 units on cycle 2, but i can only account for 33000 units. looking again at the output per hour which is in the bottom right at given 4 hour x2 cylces completed i should have 61728 p0 make based on this number looking at the extractor control unit its listing the currect cycle output as 154931 and its 2:57 minutes into the 3rd 4 hour run. which is right... i worked off the 7716 number thinking that would provide that each hour for the 4 hour run, thus giving me 61728 p0 per 4 hours, or if you look at the graph more at the start e.g. the 150k + units which are shown, my lauchpad should be rammed right about now ready for when the extractors are only making less than 50k per cycle per hour. to say its confusing is an understatment at present. and yes i did try this on sisi as well having the same result... edit: going to file a report anyway cause if nothing else they need to explain it better... or edit what we see so its right.
Horror Master Preeternal Spark SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2011.01.19 09:54:00 - [20] 1. Fill a bug report. 2. Tells us what's CCP answer is? Thank you :)

AS LordASB	Posted - 2011.01.19 10:15:00 - [21] yep will do. just added some more info the bug report at the request of BH Eriweal
Random Statistic	Posted - 2011.01.19 11:38:00 - [22] Have you checked that the link can handle the volume on the largest cycle - not the average for the installed run?
AS LordASB	Posted - 2011.01.19 11:52:00 - [23] yes or it would not let me route the product in the first place.
Gamingloser1	Posted - 2011.01.19 14:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Steve Thomas ok one last time before I simply advise you to DELETE all of your characters and accounts so your never ever tempted to come back to EVE online, LOOK AT THE GRAPH that is sitting RIGHT IN THE BLOODY MIDDLE OF THAT SCREEN you notice that the curve is not a simple semetrical curve and that it has bumps and spikes in it, often that first set of spikes is HIGHER than your initial production run. Aparently someone went on break and chuckged down a keg of red bull syrup or something now compare that FIRST colum to your output, It should match exactly. Now look at that number to the far right, depending on how long you set it it will be either lower or higher than that innitial run. because its the average of ALL of the production cycles for that Extractor head. if you set it for a fairly short run, the odds are quite good that it will be a bit higher than your first produciton output as your production hits that first spike. If its a longer cycle, then obviously its going to be a lot lower than your actual output on that first production cycle, (unless you set a 2 or 4 hour cycle. Also, that right side per hour is PER BLOODY HOUR! your first run can be as short as 15 min, or 30,so do the math and see how "off" it is. Now If after I explained it to you you STILL feel the need to say "But Im not getting the production I was promised by that right hand number!!!!!1!!1!!!1" then just follow the following steps to correct your problem, Go to your log in screen, Bio mass all of your characters Wait 10 hours complete termination Log out of EvE online Go to the account management screen and cancle your accounts. find a game thats more your speed and base comprehension level. may I recomend a game like wow or Free relms. No I am not kidding. your obviously not smart enough to play EvE online. end of line. Thank you for your excellent advice. I completely agree someone should give up if they can't understand drastic changes to an industry system that has very little confirmed documentation within one day of implementation. So let me detail this again....just built a fresh planet: Deleted all old structures. Yes even the spaceport. Placed ECU unit on planet. Submitted. Placed 8 pins on in "hot zones." Since all of my cycles I've quoted above are only 1 hr cycles my estimated units per hour is 91,098 and total units says 91,098. No pins are overlapping. No pins have the negative red percentage. Click install program. Submit. Should be good to go right? When I look at the graph in the BLOODY MIDDLE OF THE SCREEN it says my output per hour has CHANGED to 60766/hr. So again the graph in the BLOODY MIDDLE OF THE SCREEN is about one third less than the program that I installed. I understand how to read a graph. It is the actual output versus the initial program quote that is confusing people (more than just myself). advanced planetology 4 CCU 5 IC 5 Planetology 4 Remote Sensing 3 How dare any of us try to discuss something in a forum. I should be ashamed.
AS LordASB	Posted - 2011.01.19 15:09:00 - [25] since 9:30 am this morning and i am still waiting to hear any news... i agree gamingloser i would not be bothered if it just made some sence, ie what it thinks i should be getting and what i am really getting out the other side. even if they just made a updated video / help it might go some way to cutting down the confusion but hay we are just the paying customer....
Dirk Smacker United Space Marine Corp	Posted - 2011.01.19 15:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Mirac Factar The estimate is based of what your planetology skills indicate the distribution of resources is i.e what you see on the heatmaps too The output is based on the Actual distribution of minerals is. The better your planetology and advanced planetology skills are the closer these numbers will get. This is what I love about the new PI system. That and the way the hotspots deplete on you coupled with the ability to stop and change programs at any time.
Nomex	Posted - 2011.01.19 16:02:00 - [27] Have to admit I'm 'baffled' about the new PI units/hr thing. What confuses me more is the scan data appears to have no relation to the yield, either. I have Planetology and Advanced Lv4.
Una Achura	Posted - 2011.01.19 17:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Mirac Factar The estimate is based of what your planetology skills indicate the distribution of resources is i.e what you see on the heatmaps too The output is based on the Actual distribution of minerals is. The better your planetology and advanced planetology skills are the closer these numbers will get. Butbut... The estimate seems to vary independently of the heat map.. I'm at 4/4 and consistently get higher estimates in the reds than in the whites so something is wierd (can't see any other players extractor heads interfering eighter). I kinda like it, but it would be nice to know what if any is the more reliable of the heat map or the estimated number. Time will tell I guess.
Cassina Lemour Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.19 17:42:00 - [29] Edited by: Cassina Lemour on 19/01/2011 17:45:20 Originally by: Sigras Edited by: Sigras on 19/01/2011 07:24:44 Im having an interesting and unique problem, im mining a gas planet in 0.0 for Ionic Solutions. All of my Hats are in place and my program time is 5 days 18 hours (138 Hours) the Output after the job has been started reads: Per Hour: 12,112 Total: 1,671,592 This seems right to me because 1,671,592 / 138 = 12,112.98 (so im getting ripped off one unit per hour) Im on cycle 3, so cycle 2 is clearly over, but something is wrong; when I mouse over cycle 2, (my highest cycle) it says: Cycle 2 85,772 units Accumulated: 151,787 Units 4 Hours 37,946 Per Hour which also makes sense because the first hour is 66,015 units making the total of the two hours the accumulated, and the average per hour correct too, however the place that Ive routed the materials to is empty, and the only draw is two basic industry units making electrolytes. Each one uses 6,000 units per hour, so in the two hours since they've received cycle two, (assuming they were empty when the cycle finished) they could have used at most 30,000 units, so where did the other 55,000 units go? EDIT: Cycle 3 just finished; the graph says it should produce 72,886 units. The two reactors that draw from it just filled themselves, and they were empty before, so thats 6,000 units, and the storage facility now has 3,570 units in it. Am I missing something? 6,000 + 3,570 != 72,886 Arent the numbers supposed to be estimates before I start the program and absolute after? or is the graph always an estimate and we just get what we get because from the numbers above, it seems im getting around 13.13% of what the graph indicates; perhaps I should fire the people giving me the estimates as they seem WAY off. I'm getting the same issue, Some ECU actually seem to produce nothing, and some only 10% of what they should be. What actually appears in the storage is also only 10% of what the extraction program popup says was extracted when you hover over the cycle. It looks like somebody got a dp in the wrong place somewhere during the transfers.
Arwen Ariniel Gallente Shaolin Legacy Preatoriani	Posted - 2011.01.19 18:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Sigras ... so where did the other 55,000 units go? Having the same problem. With longer cycles (1 hour or more), the ecu apparantly does not allow you to route all materials and most of the earlier cycles is wasted. --- If it floats, and it doesn't say 'quack', sink it!



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