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PI - Vast improvement from before *thumb up*

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Mrs LubaLuba	Posted - 2011.01.20 19:32:00 - [1] So, i have been reading the many threads in this section regarding how borked or how the yield returns are messed up. I was not looking forward to revamping my PI setup but had no choice anyway. There i was last night decomissioning everything that needed to and installed the new extractors, started the extraction process and clicked submit.... that was it.... a couple of clicks..... no more mouse breaking clicks beyond my wildest dreams I left the extractors to do their job, then checked back the next day. Exactly the same amount extracted as before, in fact the storage facilities i had were filling to capacity. I got to say it's a job well done to CCP. This leaves me with one question though..... WTF ARE ALL THE WHINE THREADS HERE FOR? are there peeps here who just cannot grasp the new concept? i honestly do not have a single problem with the revamped PI, it is far better than previous one. shrugs
Marac Factar Gallente Hypergolic	Posted - 2011.01.20 19:38:00 - [2] I have no idea, all that's happened for me is I've more flexibility, higher yields, which will result in higher profit.... for less clicking. So I'm with you
tpwh21	Posted - 2011.01.20 19:41:00 - [3] you're obviously doing it the way ccp intends then. because if you want to run 5hr cycles, or harvest more than one resource per planet, or restart you extractors mid cycle - er - it is not brilliant. Also amounts out of extractors is highly variable - which is pretty annoying. I restarted today extractors today and it took 2x the time - what with having to reposition all the heads...
Mr. Orange Gallente Band of Freelancers Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz	Posted - 2011.01.20 19:59:00 - [4] It was a clickfest before, now it's a click and dragfest, at least for people that run short cycles. The Pusher Man
Kyra Kryos	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:02:00 - [5] While my yields are somewhat lower, (changed to 48 hour cycles), I now only have about 15 clicks every 2 days vs the 240 every 2 days for nearly the same amount. I am pleased with what has been done (huge improvement).
Ishee Makara	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:04:00 - [6] I asked the question in another post (To PI or not to PI) because I would be new to PI and didn't know whether or not to start it because of all the angry, whining, posts. One of the replies I got, that made a hellava lot of sense, is that most of the angry whines are from peeps trying to make it sound alot worse than it is. Hence, less competition. I'm looking forward to the new PI system. Then again, I'm new to it, so my view isn't tainted.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:11:00 - [7] I run 24 hour cycles, and this new system seems a whole lot better to me. I can reset all 11 planets extractors in 5 minutes now. Perhaps I'm just not going about it hardcore enough to see the yield losses. I could swear I'm getting more product now than I was before. shrug
Flesh Slurper	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:13:00 - [8] The revamped PI requires new strategies for some people. For example, under the old system, in nullsec I could use 3 extractors on 5 hour cycles to constantly feed the needs of 5 basic industry facilities. This allowed me to create finished refined commodities on a single planet with relative ease as well as saving on power grid with less extractors. While this was not the way to get the maximum yield out of all planets combined, it saved me massive M3 of hauling. I simply could unload the refined items from the planets every 2 days and take them to market. The new system has the up-front power cost of the ECU. This means that for people using a lower number of extractors per material type, there is a penalty of the up front cost of it's power grid. Therefore, nullsec planets that had relatively few extractors and lots of processors are no longer as effective. In order to save on ECU grid wastage, it could be a good strategy to over extract a bit, and then move the pins to different resources every so often, allowing a single ECU to pull in multiple resources. Highsec planets always used lots of extractors and relatively few processors due to their low yields. This would mean that under the new system, highsec planets actually get a boost, because using the maximum number of extractors under the new system is slightly cheaper on the power grid.
Sir Kid	Posted - 2011.01.20 21:12:00 - [9] Less clicking means more AFK profitz. Supa Supa. I've realized that colonies need to be reconstructed only such that the storage facilities and processors are in between p0 extractors. p2 is still pie like on a single planet.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.01.20 21:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Ishee Makara I asked the question in another post (To PI or not to PI) because I would be new to PI and didn't know whether or not to start it because of all the angry, whining, posts. One of the replies I got, that made a hellava lot of sense, is that most of the angry whines are from peeps trying to make it sound alot worse than it is. Hence, less competition. It is said that those complaining were running bots, which no longer work as you need to reposition the heads regularly.

Mirac Factar Gallente Hypergolic	Posted - 2011.01.20 23:48:00 - [11] It all stems from people not being able to figure out how to run things better than before, they want this to be more like WoW where things are handed to them on a plate. Rather than just figure this new system out. I just hope CCP doesn't listen to all the whiny Orcs and Elves and nerf it back to what it was. Go CCP new PI is good. This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery.
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:15:00 - [12] Well there are always people around who love to be oppose to general opinions, or authority applausers. Ohh there are also tougher guys in games communities. They claim purpose is killing whoevver complain about anythingelse , whinner sisies for them. If we exclude those people , there are few players around who happy with new PI. Some of them right. New system is good for you if you doin casual style P1 production with lower PI skills. They are making P1 only production with low level commad centers. Now instead of doin 96hrs cycle in old system, they can make shorter cyc extraction. Also ECUs removed the burden of long links on Gas planets. So actually their production increased. Even they are able to put maybe one more extractor than before. But whoever do large scale P2 and P3 production using advance and elite command centers , there is huge drop for them. So at one side people who makin Large scale PI production in lowsec or wormholes for their own POS needs and otherside People who make PI in highsec as a variation on gameplay. First group is punished, second is happy
Mirac Factar Gallente Hypergolic	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:18:00 - [13] Edited by: Mirac Factar on 21/01/2011 00:22:24 Edited by: Mirac Factar on 21/01/2011 00:18:53 Originally by: lushn ... stuff ... But whoever do large scale P2 and P3 production using advance and elite command centres , there is huge drop for them. ... more stuff ... Yeah, my 11 Elite command centres that produce P2 and P3 materials say otherwise. It just requires a little more thought than it did before. My yields have increased across the board. This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Mirac Factar It all stems from people not being able to figure out how to run things better than before, they want this to be more like WoW where things are handed to them on a plate. Rather than just figure this new system out. This. +1. Also, someone already said botmasters are angry because their PI bots no longer work. Theres just something that tickles me to death about that. This is the second day of PI for me on 24hr cycles in low sec with advanced and elite CC's. So far I am liking the new changes. We'll see if after 2 weeks to a month of it whether or not I am still doing PI. Good PI changes so far.
tekant	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:40:00 - [15] Interesting. This character "Mirac factar", and other similar name "Marac factar". I m seeing him in last two days while trying to start topics about how good new PI system is. like topic from two days ago "New PI is good, thanks CCP." are you sure you are not CCP alt?
Kyra Kryos	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Kyra Kryos on 21/01/2011 00:45:16 My guess is its working better than it was before, actually depleting the fields (something I didn't run into before) Before the change I could plant my extractors in a high yield area and even after weeks the area remained high yield. Now that is no longer, the fields deplete faster than they grow making it so you have to relocate your heads, or your whole operations. In some ways I hate this.. but in others its seems realistic. I think the depletion over time is good BUT the fields are drying up to fast. A bit more testing to be done.. but that's what I see atm.
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.01.21 00:55:00 - [17] I may or may not be typical of the people who were caught off guard by this change, but since you ask, here's my ancedote. First, I'm a rookie in EVE - about half my skill points are in PI - so that's the emotional attachment. No, I didn't log onto singularity ... I like to be surprised by changes and muddle my way through (which is what I'm doing now). The stategy I had was to focus on hotspots - find a resource that sold well, find a planet with a good hotspot for that resource, drop 14 extractors + basic industry on it with 3-4 5-hour runs per day. There was a lot of upfront research and 6xelite bases were a non-trivial investment for a starting player still learning the ropes. It was a good, steady source of income and taught me a lot about the dynamics of the markets in this game. Converting over my harvesting bases, my first experiment was to simply replace the 14 harvesters with 2 of the new extractors. With the need to upgrade links, that put me down to ~12 heads total ... so a slight loss. However the real shock was that after the first 5-hour run, I had completely drained all my beloved hotspots. I'm still fiddling around doing experiments and possibly am making some fundemental mistake I haven't noticed yet, but my yield today is approx 1/3 the rate of production I was achieving before the patch. The fact that the market for PI materials hasn't exploded suggests that I'm the exception rather than the rule in suffering such a cut. So it's going to take me some time to adapt and relearn this new system. Although you can see the accumulated resources in a scan, you can't see the rate at which they are being replenished, so it's a little trickier to calculate the best planet/location and I can't say I've quite mastered it yet (it's still unclear to me if hotspots are permanent or whether new ones grow after old ones are depleted - the ones I drained show no signs of rebounding yet). So I may lament a little on past successes come and gone and not yet regained, but I hope that it does not come across as a whine.
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.01.21 01:13:00 - [18] Edited by: Julien Brellier on 21/01/2011 01:13:16 I was a moaner. I was crying and screaming about not being able to produce P2 or P3 on a single planet anymore. Then I sat down and worked things out, rebuilt all but one of my colonies to be P1 production and a single planet to do all the P2 and P3 I was doing previously. I have since discovered that instead of a never-ending clickfest every 5 hours of my life, I am able to sustain the same output as before by running every planet on 24 hour cycles and only having to restart a few extractors once per day, plus one round trip in a hauler to supply the P2+P3 planet. A little bit of brain-ache and a few hours of planning was all it took.
Mordrake Random Selection.	Posted - 2011.01.21 01:45:00 - [19] Wait for it, I reworked all my planets and at first it looked like I was only going to loose about 1/3 production (in 0.0 on rich planets) Then I ran 6 hour cycles on all my extractors. Now 2 days after patch my extractor heads are not in range of any good hot spots. So now will need to drop factories and move heads out with long links eating up Power and CPU, more factories will need to be pulled up and allot more costs will now accumulate from constant rebuilding. Will be lucky to end up with half of my prior production. "Arte et Marte"
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.21 02:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Mordrake .......... Now 2 days after patch my extractor heads are not in range of any good hot spots. So now will need to drop factories and move heads out with long links eating up Power and CPU, more factories will need to be pulled up and allot more costs will now accumulate from constant rebuilding. Will be lucky to end up with half of my prior production. SO STILL TUMBS UP? WE ASKED LESS CLICK ON EXTRACTORS NOW WE HAVE TO CHANGE BUILDING PLACE AND REROUTE MORE

Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.01.21 03:40:00 - [21] Lets see if I can come up with an analogy of how the new depletion rates work. We have a tar pit that has 125 gallons of tar in it. The tar pit is fed more tar at the rate of 1 gallon of tar per hour by natural planetary processes. I decide to extract the tar as fast as I possibly can, a rate of 5 gallons per hour, per extraction head, which I have 5 of, and I do this for 5 hours. My rate of extraction is 25 gallons of tar per hour and for 5 hours extraction thats 125 gallons. The tar pit was fed by the natural planetary process that makes tar available for the 5 hours I extracted. So the tar pit received 1 gallon of tar per hour for those 5 hours. That 5 extra gallons of tar. Tar pit had 125 gallons, 5 extra gallons came in over 5 hours, thats a total of 130 gallons of tar, I pulled out 125 gallons of tar, leaving 5 gallons. I go to extract tar as fast as possible again after my initial 5 hours extraction, but theres only 5 gallons of tar left and the amount of tar I can extract in the next 5 hours plummets. This is why people are having trouble with the new PI depletion rates. This will create conflict amongst the playerbase so we have to fight over resources. We will be using Dust 514 squads when they become available for this planetary conflict. We wouldnt have any use for Dust Squads if the we didnt have to fight over resources. This is how I am interpreting the new PI changes. Perhaps I am wrong. <shrug>
Zeke Ruach	Posted - 2011.01.21 03:49:00 - [22] Not a thumb up here. I have 5/4 PI skills, and with elite command centers working in .1 systems and rich planets, it's not as efficent. It seems the only way to keep production up 100% for p3 products is to use 1 ECU, 10 heads then extract for a day. Then I need to move the ECU at a huge expense. Seems to me it helps high sec. PI, and nerfs nul-sec and W-space.
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.21 04:05:00 - [23] replacing extractor heads is not enough alone. Eve Planets designed to make difficult some types material in same spot. White spots I used to use for extraction about 3 times longer than ECU range. PLace I settled, probably best place where nearest to all requires resource whitespots in current planet. So basicly each time U have to demolish and carry ECU another place with long link.
Natan Tragovian	Posted - 2011.01.21 07:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Julien Brellier Edited by: Julien Brellier on 21/01/2011 01:13:16 I was a moaner. I was crying and screaming about not being able to produce P2 or P3 on a single planet anymore. Then I sat down and worked things out, rebuilt all but one of my colonies to be P1 production and a single planet to do all the P2 and P3 I was doing previously. I have since discovered that instead of a never-ending clickfest every 5 hours of my life, I am able to sustain the same output as before by running every planet on 24 hour cycles and only having to restart a few extractors once per day, plus one round trip in a hauler to supply the P2+P3 planet. A little bit of brain-ache and a few hours of planning was all it took. This would be all great and dandy, but are you not noticing hotspot depletion every 2-3 days, requiring a rebuilding of your entire operation once every 4-5 days? (Assuming you got your initial extractor unit within range of 2 hotspots) I, personally, think a better solution to forcing rebuilding would be to simply reduce extraction rates for every km outside the initial ECU extraction zone you place the heads. If you do a P0->P1 planet, you would have to rebuild your factories whenever you move the ECU. Including the buildings, links, and routes to 6-10 (Depending on how many P0-P1 factories you have) factories, this hardly becomes anything BUT a clickfest. If I am missing something - please, tell me.
Miyah Putredas	Posted - 2011.01.21 08:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Mrs LubaLuba So, i have been reading the many threads in this section regarding how borked or how the yield returns are messed up. I was not looking forward to revamping my PI setup but had no choice anyway. There i was last night decomissioning everything that needed to and installed the new extractors, started the extraction process and clicked submit.... that was it.... a couple of clicks..... no more mouse breaking clicks beyond my wildest dreams I left the extractors to do their job, then checked back the next day. Exactly the same amount extracted as before, in fact the storage facilities i had were filling to capacity. I got to say it's a job well done to CCP. This leaves me with one question though..... WTF ARE ALL THE WHINE THREADS HERE FOR? are there peeps here who just cannot grasp the new concept? i honestly do not have a single problem with the revamped PI, it is far better than previous one. shrugs It would be better if it did work properly... Here's an example: Yesterday I left one planet running on a 14 day program. It had a 4 hour extractor cycle. While the two first cycles run during the night should have produced a total of 500k+ units of materials, this morning I had only 269k units of materials in my launchpad, about the same amount I had last evening. My factories on the planet take 12k units of materials in an hour, so that's 96k units off. Where are my 400k units that should have been there?? This is why people complain, and this is why the system is broken.
Aldarica Spinal Discipline	Posted - 2011.01.21 08:44:00 - [26] It's really good to see that now I'm able to get same yield as before but with MUCH less work and time invested. But then, I suppose this fact will also cause significant decrease in prices.
Cow K InterSun Freelance Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.01.21 08:52:00 - [27] People whine when they don't know whats going on. It's nice and all to update the PI system, but to have no documentation on how it works is plain lazy. Sure, you put extractors here and there, and you set the time, and you come back later and do it again. But how do you use this new shiny interface to get the most out of the planet? Before it was easy. You level up your scanning skills and you place the extractors on the 'hot zones'. Done. Maxing your scanning skills no longer made any sense. All you have to do is drag your nodes around and you can see what the yield is. The 'hot zones' are also constantly changing. I can't find any information on why they change, or whether there's a pattern to the movements. Placing your extractor points on 'hot zones' no longer yielded you the most possible. More information would have been nice on the day of release. it's not like CCP didn't have time to document the changes. I lot of people, including myself, depend on PI to make money. it's understandable that a change to a part of the game, from something that is logical and precise to something thats relies on dumb luck, upsets people.
Nicky's Tomb	Posted - 2011.01.21 09:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Julien Brellier Edited by: Julien Brellier on 21/01/2011 01:13:16 I was a moaner. I was crying and screaming about not being able to produce P2 or P3 on a single planet anymore. Then I sat down and worked things out, rebuilt all but one of my colonies to be P1 production and a single planet to do all the P2 and P3 I was doing previously. I have since discovered that instead of a never-ending clickfest every 5 hours of my life, I am able to sustain the same output as before by running every planet on 24 hour cycles and only having to restart a few extractors once per day, plus one round trip in a hauler to supply the P2+P3 planet. A little bit of brain-ache and a few hours of planning was all it took. Welcome to the realm of "doing it right" :) This is the way I had my old PI. So all I had to do was decom the extractors, plop down one ECU and throw some heads around on 24 hour cycles, job done. I think I will end up with more P1 than I need, but I'm not complaining, I'll maybe do something about that when I cba'd.
FreddyMac	Posted - 2011.01.21 10:04:00 - [29] Then it would seem that you didn't have a full understanding of what PI was supposed to be. It was originally intended to release with resource depletion, and random events happening to your colonies that could increase and decrease production. Resource depletion was always intended. CCP rarely releases an instruction manual on how to use things in Eve. They leave it up to us to figure out. Personally I like that as it lets those of us that spend the time and effort into figuring things out, the chance to get ahead of others. I seem to remember a whole lot of the same crap being bandied about back when PI was first released. "This sucks, its broken and you make so little isk its barely worth the time". Then, a month later, after a few people figured it out and posted guides on how to use PI to make good isk, the rest of the people read the guides and started making isk. My bet is that, a month from now if not less, people will be making plenty of isk again.
Cow K InterSun Freelance Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.01.21 10:16:00 - [30] if it was meant to deplete, why did they bother bringing out something that didn't deplete in the first place.



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