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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
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Posted - 2011.01.28 02:56:00 -
[1]
No, I didn't read the release notes.
I have this problem at one installation, so I assume I'm going to have it a 35 others.
My first check of an installation revealed an ECU with 8878 units of base metals routed and 133,155 units not routed.
Tried to route the large amount and it says the link isn't large enough. Added a silo, linked to it and tried to route it there. Same thing.
More ECUs? Blow it all up and enjoy the fireworks? ???
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bigbee
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:01:00 -
[2]
upgrade you links you will be fine 
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:01:00 -
[3]
Try upgrading your links?
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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:18:00 -
[4]
Worked Beautifully. TY 
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Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2011.01.28 06:52:00 -
[5]
Actually, I was wondering about this myself... Pre-patch, I didn't need to upgrade my links. Suddenly, I log in and all of my routes are screwed up with the above split. I don't do PI realy heavy, so I didn't actually check to see how much actual material I was getting. I then started looking more closely at volumes and rates.
When calculating the volume a link requires, what values are used? Previously, I could setup long extracts and would have no route trouble at all with the basic links (high sec), because the average extract rate was used. Since this was the case, long cycles would give huge spikes of materials. This is desirable for high sec even with the depletion, because it gives me a reason to pay attention to PI. So then I tried figuring out how much I needed on my links and my math wasn't adding up with what I was seeing. Anyone?
http://wiki.eve-id.net/
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.01.28 09:56:00 -
[6]
Upgrade your links, and route your materials to a storage bin. Then route from the storage bin to your factories. The storage will hold the material while your factories chew through it, the days of routing straight to your factories are over.
By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
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Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2011.01.28 14:54:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Upgrade your links, and route your materials to a storage bin. Then route from the storage bin to your factories. The storage will hold the material while your factories chew through it, the days of routing straight to your factories are over.
I've been doing that. I'm talking about the links now having to support more materials. In trying to determine the number of materials that flow, I can't find anything near a good estimate, so I have to put a huge buffer in the link so as not to lose a bunch of material.
http://wiki.eve-id.net/
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.01.28 15:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mikron Alexarr
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Upgrade your links, and route your materials to a storage bin. Then route from the storage bin to your factories. The storage will hold the material while your factories chew through it, the days of routing straight to your factories are over.
I've been doing that. I'm talking about the links now having to support more materials. In trying to determine the number of materials that flow, I can't find anything near a good estimate, so I have to put a huge buffer in the link so as not to lose a bunch of material.
They're not supporting more material. Before, you were routing each extractor to the storage on it's own link. Now you have 1 extractor pulling in the same amount as all the ones you had before, going through one link. Not that hard to figure out.
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Raaz Satik
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Posted - 2011.01.28 16:27:00 -
[9]
No this is specific to Incursion 1.1.2. As the OP and other poster said PI that was flowing post 1.1.1 but pre 1.1.2 now is flowing "differently".
I just updated all my ECU's. For every one the amount of routed product was 50% or less of production. In about a third of the cases I had to upgrade the links further before I could route the unrouted product.
The amount of product that needed routing also looked "different" but I don't currently have time to do any further research or analysis.
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Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: Mikron Alexarr
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Upgrade your links, and route your materials to a storage bin. Then route from the storage bin to your factories. The storage will hold the material while your factories chew through it, the days of routing straight to your factories are over.
I've been doing that. I'm talking about the links now having to support more materials. In trying to determine the number of materials that flow, I can't find anything near a good estimate, so I have to put a huge buffer in the link so as not to lose a bunch of material.
They're not supporting more material. Before, you were routing each extractor to the storage on it's own link. Now you have 1 extractor pulling in the same amount as all the ones you had before, going through one link. Not that hard to figure out.
This is actually not the case. I'm talking about after the change to ECUs, but before the most recent patch. Again, I wasn't paying that much attention before, but I believe that the routes only depended on average m3/hr on the connection. It seems like it is working closer to the intended, but now the estimates are way off both before and after installing an extraction program.
http://wiki.eve-id.net/
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Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2011.01.28 20:38:00 -
[11]
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=851
Much Appreciated Omen!
http://wiki.eve-id.net/
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Minamel
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.29 11:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Minamel on 29/01/2011 11:35:30
The routing is somehow bugged even after the patch.
I have read the devblog but i dont understand the folloing:
I have a Programm with 1 hour Cycles.
First Cycle (1 hour)is 40.000 Units or 400m¦(says Ecu while programm is running)
Second Cycle ( 1 hour) is 33.000 Units or 330m¦
the largest Cycle (few hours later) less than 50.000 Units and less than 500m¦.
So a 500m¦ link should be enough but it isnt!
While the first cycle is running (with 40.000 Units) the route from ECU to storage show 65.000 Units and 650m¦ therefore you need a 1000m¦ link.
WTF!!!? This make no sense!
Now i need 1000m¦ links on all my Planets to extract an average of 180m¦ or 18.000 Units per hour. Why oh why? That is not cool especially because with the new Pi and the much higher powercost for extraction if using Ecu with less that 10 heads power is really short. Now with that unnessesary big links its even harder to work with it.
A Link that covers the output of the Highest Cycle should be enough! But it isnt!
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Dirk Smacker
United Space Marine Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.29 11:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dirk Smacker on 29/01/2011 11:57:32
Since the latest patch, if you get an extraction rate higher than the capacity of the line, the raw material breaks into two routes.
One is 100% capacity of the existing line and still works. It will show up as 100% when you "mouse over" the ECU or storage.
However, the overflow is seen as a second route and is not routed. You need to go into the ECU routes to see it.
Here's the catch: When you upgrade the line, the mouse over shows up as 50% because the overflow route is broken. You still need to reroute the overflow.
I believe this feature was put in so random spikes in ECU output after you set up the route would not shut down the line completely. For you mechanic types, it works like a relief valve.
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Minamel
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.29 12:12:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Minamel on 29/01/2011 12:14:14
That is right but has nothing to do with the Problem i mentioned above.
You have to make links bigger than nessesary, because the route tells you that the ammount going through would be bigger than it actually is. It tells you that it is more in your route than your highest spike cycle that makes no sense!
If my cycle is 40.000 a hour there is no need and no reason that a route tell me it is 65.000 and demand for bigger link. Bigger links cost power that i not have and i do not like to spend this power for nothing..
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.01.29 12:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Minamel
Edited by: Minamel on 29/01/2011 11:35:30
The routing is somehow bugged even after the patch.
I have read the devblog but i dont understand the folloing:
So a 500m¦ link should be enough but it isnt!
A Link that covers the output of the Highest Cycle should be enough! But it isnt!
Ignoring the specifics - there is a really easy workaround to this.
As you can safely ignore the spikes in production as being irrelevant to your long(er) cycles.
So just set up one extractor - route product. upgrade link to desired amount.
then add the extra extractors. you will have an overloaded route - but you will keep the bulk of the regular product.
But considering on a 14 day cycle you get 1/3 of the product in the first 1 1/2 days - i would doubt the wisdom of doing this for long cycles.
Long cycles are still really nerfed - just in two different ways now, as far as i can tell.
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Minamel
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.29 12:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Minamel on 29/01/2011 12:46:06
That will not work i will try to explain and hope i for myself understand it right.
I want to extract 50.000 Units or 500 m¦ so i set the programm to 50.000 every hour and connect storage and Ecu with a 500 m¦ link.
The extractor is extracting 50.000 Units but the route "thinks" it is lets say 100.000 Units. So it says "no no i am full and will just deliver 50.000."
The problem is it does not, it delivers less than 50.000 per hour then because it was never more than 50.000 but not all is comming trough.
So the problem is, if i get it right a 500 m¦ and 50.000 Unit link is not able to deliver 50.000 Units per hour with 1 hour cycles. That is just not like it should be.
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Raaz Satik
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Posted - 2011.01.29 18:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Minamel
Edited by: Minamel on 29/01/2011 12:46:06
That will not work i will try to explain and hope i for myself understand it right.
I want to extract 50.000 Units or 500 m¦ so i set the programm to 50.000 every hour and connect storage and Ecu with a 500 m¦ link.
The extractor is extracting 50.000 Units but the route "thinks" it is lets say 100.000 Units. So it says "no no i am full and will just deliver 50.000."
The problem is it does not, it delivers less than 50.000 per hour then because it was never more than 50.000 but not all is comming trough.
So the problem is, if i get it right a 500 m¦ and 50.000 Unit link is not able to deliver 50.000 Units per hour with 1 hour cycles. That is just not like it should be.
The part of the Dev Blog referenced above that you should be interested in is...
Quote:
Due to the dynamic nature of the output of the ECUs, and the static nature of routes, the number shown under the products tab is a theoretical maximum one could output from a program (given the raw output of its extractor heads) and is always higher than what a single cycle of the program will output. Although slightly confusing, this guarantees that you will always be able to route every single unit produced by your ECU.
Which I think translates to... in your situation... that you are currently only producing 50,000 but the theoretical maximum (I assume under different depletion factors) is higher hence you need links for the higher theoretical maximum and not the actual production.
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Minamel
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.30 00:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Minamel on 30/01/2011 00:34:35
So i have not just to match my spike cycle which is about twice as much as all other cycles. I have to route double of that spike cycle because in some theoretical situation it could be that i would have extracted more?
But it isnt just that theoretical maximum issue. If i am right and say "forget the spikes i will just route my 50.000 the rest may disappear" it will not work with a 500m¦ link because a 500m¦ link simply cant route the full 50.000 units that it should.
Now i have to use 1000 m¦ links for a target average extraction of 18.000 Units (180m¦)
Srry but that is really not cool. The numbers on the routes are just wrong with or without some weird explanation and this should be fixed asap!
Numbers are important in this game!!
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Raaz Satik
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Raaz Satik
Originally by: Minamel
The part of the Dev Blog referenced above that you should be interested in is...
Quote:
Due to the dynamic nature of the output of the ECUs, and the static nature of routes, the number shown under the products tab is a theoretical maximum one could output from a program (given the raw output of its extractor heads) and is always higher than what a single cycle of the program will output. Although slightly confusing, this guarantees that you will always be able to route every single unit produced by your ECU.
Which I think translates to... in your situation... that you are currently only producing 50,000 but the theoretical maximum (I assume under different depletion factors) is higher hence you need links for the higher theoretical maximum and not the actual production.
I just added a head to an already routed ECU and it had no effect on my routes/links. Hence I will speculate that the "theoretical maximum" is the amount you would produce if you were using all 10 heads.
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Xenoxiah
Amarr
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
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Posted - 2011.01.30 17:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Raaz Satik
I just added a head to an already routed ECU and it had no effect on my routes/links. Hence I will speculate that the "theoretical maximum" is the amount you would produce if you were using all 10 heads.
Wow if that's true then it is very misleading information. I know some people might be using all 10 heads, but I'm willing to wager most people are using less. Is it too hard for the routing system to look up the "theoretical maximum" for the setup you have currently?
When I logged in after the patch and saw i had 140k units of ionic solutions unrouted, I was absolutely freaking out, until I realized that I'm not producing anywhere near that amount per hour, my highest spike in a 4 day program is only around 60k in one hour. This sounds like something that needs to be addressed, at least to clarify it for people. They don't necessarily need to change the system.
Although I do think that the way this routing is set up, totally breaks programs longer than 2 or 3 days, because if you don't have ridiculously fat links (or don't have enough power grid to upgrade them), then you are losing the majority of the initial spikes and not getting nearly as much.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.30 17:42:00 -
[21]
The Theoretical Maximums are based on your current setup and since it's always higher than the max single-cycle output of your setup it is possible that you could add an extractor head and not affect this number.
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