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Rorqual vs Jump Freighter

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Sigras	Posted - 2011.01.30 00:38:00 - [1] ok, I have a question, why is the jump freighter more expensive than a rorqual? a jump freighter is essentially an empty box with a jump drive On the other hand a rorqual is an empty box with a jump drive that does a whole bunch of other stuff, like give bonuses and have a drone bay, and allow ships to be refit. Just a thought
Veronica Kerrigan	Posted - 2011.01.30 00:48:00 - [2] Supply and demand my friend. A jump freighter can carry more ( I think ) and as such is the better hauling vessel. It can also enter high-sec by use of a standard jump gate. Therefore with the JF having more versatility there is more demand, which causes prices to inflate.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.01.30 01:06:00 - [3] Supply and demand has very little to do with the higher premium for the Jump freighter because its mostly down to it being a T2 ship and the extra invention and material costs that entails, the Rorqual is a T1 ship and much cheaper to build.
True Sight THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.30 01:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Sigras ok, I have a question, why is the jump freighter more expensive than a rorqual? a jump freighter is essentially an empty box with a jump drive On the other hand a rorqual is an empty box with a jump drive that does a whole bunch of other stuff, like give bonuses and have a drone bay, and allow ships to be refit. Just a thought I'm not sure if your asking the question as a serious "why do they cost different" or more of a theoretical arguement as to what goes into them. Serious answer: A Jump freighter costs more in components to assemble than a Rorqual Theoretical: Assume the sheer size requires a lot more raw materials (the core cost of any vehicle) and the complexity of the drive/jump drive required to make it even move. Remember that production lines in POS modules only cost like 10mil to buy, so they've just stuffed one of those inside a rorqual for compression. -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
Blue Adept Damage Unlimited Inc AN EYE F0R AN EYE	Posted - 2011.01.31 23:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Blue Adept on 31/01/2011 23:14:41 I've got both and each has it's own advantages(+) and disadvantages(-). The Rorqual by far is the best starter ship for moving a lot of gear in low security or 0.0. However, the Rorqual requires a lot of covert hauler or regular industrial movement between low security and high security. Yet, while saving nearly 3 billion, a little regular hauling every now and then isn't so bad? Jump Freigher (Anshar) (+) Holds 2-3x the Rorqual (337,000 m3 for me) (+) Can jump through a regular star gate --or-- cyno jump. This is huge. You can jump into a 0.4 station/POS and then warp to a high security gate then go all the way to Jita then from a close 0.5 Cyno jump safely to a station. (+) Expensive!! (4.5+ Billion) (-) Uses more a lot more fuel for the same AU jump (-) Cannot jet cargo/cans in space. Must be docked or at a POS Rorqual (-) Only holds 80,000-150,000 m3 (depending on fitting with rigs/expanders/hanger) (-) Cannot enter high security (+) Half the price of a Jump Freighter (1.5+ Billion fit) (+) Use less fuel than. (+) Can jet and scoop POS objects, industrial ships, secure cans into open space (Safe spots) (+) Can jet packed PVP ships from (+) Capital Tractor beam cargo cans/wrecks up to 200 km (+) Can fit a Capital Clone Vat and give friends jump clones. (Best done near a station or POS since you are a sitting duck for 10 minutes). (+) Can cloak in space (such as a safe spot). (+) Can defend itself Tank (usually shield) and nice drone bay. (+) Capital Shield Transport bonus (shield rep 45 km away) -Blue Adept
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.31 23:34:00 - [6] Ohhh quick related question... What if i had a very large POS module that could only be carried by a freighter, can i move it to the POS in a freighter and 'launch for corp'?
Zentock	Posted - 2011.01.31 23:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Headerman Ohhh quick related question... What if i had a very large POS module that could only be carried by a freighter, can i move it to the POS in a freighter and 'launch for corp'? Really?
Echo Mande	Posted - 2011.02.01 00:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Headerman Ohhh quick related question... What if i had a very large POS module that could only be carried by a freighter, can i move it to the POS in a freighter and 'launch for corp'? Whether it's related is debatable, but yes, you can launch stuff for corp with a freighter. You can even launch and anchor a tower with a freighter. It's the fueling and onlining of the inactive tower that's the hard bit :)
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.01 00:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Echo Mande Originally by: Headerman Ohhh quick related question... What if i had a very large POS module that could only be carried by a freighter, can i move it to the POS in a freighter and 'launch for corp'? Whether it's related is debatable, but yes, you can launch stuff for corp with a freighter. You can even launch and anchor a tower with a freighter. It's the fueling and onlining of the inactive tower that's the hard bit :) Cheers man, thats all i needed to know :) And yes sorry, not really related, just needed an answer lol
whoflngdng	Posted - 2011.02.01 16:29:00 - [10] Edited by: whoflngdng on 01/02/2011 16:29:58 I think the primary reason for the higher cost of a jump freighter is that you can cyno jump from a hi sec system DIRECTLY to a 0.0 system, coming back you have to go thru a low sec system and then warp to the hi sec gate and jump thru.

Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.01 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: whoflngdng Edited by: whoflngdng on 01/02/2011 16:29:58 I think the primary reason for the higher cost of a jump freighter is that you can cyno jump from a hi sec system DIRECTLY to a 0.0 system, coming back you have to go thru a low sec system and then warp to the hi sec gate and jump thru. This is the closest to the correct answer. The above answers are completely incorrect. The reason why the JF costs more is for one, and only one simple reason. Not only can it use a jump drive but it can also use conventional gates as well. Therefore it can transport goods through high sec without a problem, where as the Rorq cannot. This is a very valuable addition, and I had very similar questions when I evaluated whether to get a Rorq or a JF. If you are going to buy a JF - let me know, I can shed some light as to whether you should or should not buy one (its much harder to use than it appears).
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2011.02.02 16:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 02/02/2011 16:59:45 Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 02/02/2011 16:58:30 Originally by: Mithrasith Originally by: whoflngdng Edited by: whoflngdng on 01/02/2011 16:29:58 I think the primary reason for the higher cost of a jump freighter is that you can cyno jump from a hi sec system DIRECTLY to a 0.0 system, coming back you have to go thru a low sec system and then warp to the hi sec gate and jump thru. This is the closest to the correct answer. The above answers are completely incorrect. The reason why the JF costs more is for one, and only one simple reason. Not only can it use a jump drive but it can also use conventional gates as well. Therefore it can transport goods through high sec without a problem, where as the Rorq cannot. This is a very valuable addition, and I had very similar questions when I evaluated whether to get a Rorq or a JF. If you are going to buy a JF - let me know, I can shed some light as to whether you should or should not buy one (its much harder to use than it appears). The reason a JF cost so much is because it is T2 and requires all the components a T2 ship requires. It has nothing to do with its abilities. - It requires a t2 BP which runs about 200-250 mil unless you can make your own. - It requires a normal freighter which runs about 750-800 mil. - It requires a ** ton of components which in turn requires that ability to do T2 component production, not something that can be done at your local dock with resources and a BP. I have priced building my own out various ways and it really is cheaper to just buy one. You need a load of blueprints.You also need to be able to do T2 manufacturing and that requires even more investment. You have a lot of investment in producing a JF before you even touch the materials. Regardless, unless you have the ( complex) production chain in place and the necessary blueprints attempting to build one is a rather large task that is both time consuming and a isk sink. THAT** is why JFs are so expensive. OP: Rorq - use for 0.0 indy task. The rorq is a multitask 0.0 ship. If you are looking for something that you can use for various task on a grand scale use a rorq. JF- Use for hauling/jumping stuff around . That is all. If you are just looking for a moving van get a JF.
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.02 18:54:00 - [13] Certainly the t2 costs of the JF contribute to it's high price, but people still buy them and anyone that gets one will usually end up pretty happy with the investment. You have a more or less fool-proof way to get stuff in and out of null with the JF. 1. jump out of high-sec to null/midpoint station & dock 2. drop off stuff 3. jump to low-sec adjacent to high-sec on station a) if tackled dock and go afk then proceed to b) b) if not tackled warp to high-sec gate and jump 4. get stuff in high sec Rorqual requires you to run the highsec-lowsec gate a bunch with an industrial to fill it up. Also compared to a Rorqual the JF is a really really big box, it's kinda like the difference between an orca and a freighter in high sec. You get the freighter if you're serious about moving stuff around, you get the orca if you want to do a few other things besides move stuff around.
Sigras	Posted - 2011.02.03 07:27:00 - [14] actually I was thinking facetiously of from an RP standpoint.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2011.02.03 07:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Sigras actually I was thinking facetiously of from an RP standpoint. This isnt WoW.
Sigras	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn Originally by: Sigras actually I was thinking facetiously of from an RP standpoint. This isnt WoW. which is why the word "facetiously" is in that statement
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.03 19:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Altaica Amur Certainly the t2 costs of the JF contribute to it's high price, but people still buy them and anyone that gets one will usually end up pretty happy with the investment. You have a more or less fool-proof way to get stuff in and out of null with the JF. 1. jump out of high-sec to null/midpoint station & dock 2. drop off stuff 3. jump to low-sec adjacent to high-sec on station a) if tackled dock and go afk then proceed to b) b) if not tackled warp to high-sec gate and jump 4. get stuff in high sec Rorqual requires you to run the highsec-lowsec gate a bunch with an industrial to fill it up. Also compared to a Rorqual the JF is a really really big box, it's kinda like the difference between an orca and a freighter in high sec. You get the freighter if you're serious about moving stuff around, you get the orca if you want to do a few other things besides move stuff around. I cant describe how wrong 1 through 4 is. This is clearly a post from someone that doesnt fly a JF, but rather has read about it. Also - to Thorian's post above - you are correct that the components of the JF cost more to manufacture the ship - however to look at that exclusively would be a big mistake. CCP chose which components are used to manufacture the JF and they had a price point in mind when they released the ship. What do they base the price point on? Largely on functionality. The more functionality a ship has, or more unique functionality that it is, among other stats, dictates the price they wish to set for it. Obviously CCP Didnt want a lot of these running around as they felt the functionality was quite good (I dispute that point, but I digress). What functionality does a JF have that 1) A Freighter does not 2) A Rorq does not. A JF can jump to various destinations, which is different than a Freighter, obviously A JF can use high sec gates and gates in general wheras a Rorq cannot. Therefore you are paying for that functionality. This is why the JF costs more than a Rorq - strictly for the functionality that one is getting.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives Beer and Smoke Federation	Posted - 2011.02.04 08:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn The reason a JF cost so much is because it is T2 and requires all the components a T2 ship requires. It has nothing to do with its abilities. ... - It requires a **** ton of components which in turn requires that ability to do T2 component production, not something that can be done at your local dock with resources and a BP. My crystalline carbonide armour plating BPO begs to differ ?
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2011.02.04 09:33:00 - [19] Edited by: Hauling Hal on 04/02/2011 09:33:00 Originally by: Bumblefck Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn The reason a JF cost so much is because it is T2 and requires all the components a T2 ship requires. It has nothing to do with its abilities. ... - It requires a **** ton of components which in turn requires that ability to do T2 component production, not something that can be done at your local dock with resources and a BP. My crystalline carbonide armour plating BPO begs to differ You can Invent a T2 JF BPC from a Crystalline Carbide BPO? Awesome!
ROXGenghis	Posted - 2011.02.04 14:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Mithrasith I cant describe how wrong 1 through 4 is. This is clearly a post from someone that doesnt fly a JF, but rather has read about it. I use those 1-4 steps with my JF. What's wrong with them? I'm pretty sure you can describe it if you try :)

Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.04 18:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Altaica Amur on 04/02/2011 18:42:27 Quote: I cant describe how wrong 1 through 4 is. This is clearly a post from someone that doesnt fly a JF, but rather has read about it. Also - to Thorian's post above - you are correct that the components of the JF cost more to manufacture the ship - however to look at that exclusively would be a big mistake. CCP chose which components are used to manufacture the JF and they had a price point in mind when they released the ship. What do they base the price point on? Largely on functionality. The more functionality a ship has, or more unique functionality that it is, among other stats, dictates the price they wish to set for it. Obviously CCP Didnt want a lot of these running around as they felt the functionality was quite good (I dispute that point, but I digress). What functionality does a JF have that 1) A Freighter does not 2) A Rorq does not. A JF can jump to various destinations, which is different than a Freighter, obviously A JF can use high sec gates and gates in general wheras a Rorq cannot. Therefore you are paying for that functionality. This is why the JF costs more than a Rorq - strictly for the functionality that one is getting. I suppose I move 500k m3 of assorted fuels in a jump from highsec in my carrier then, odd that I'd have made that mistake, honestly the only other methodology of moving JFs around with any sensibility would be to cyno on POSs and given that CCP wants you 15km away from the POS shield I'm not sure that'd be a great idea. I used to do the steps 1-4 out of Aunenen, the warp to Nonni gate was always a bit hair-raising with it often being camped but they aren't likely to be able to bump you off gate before you can jump, only real threat is an unlucky bounce, this also applies to your cyno placement which is why you should always light your own cynos if a system is hot and/or pick backwaters that nobody uses, which is my current methodology. Ironically in spite of your 'lolJFn00b' statement you seem to be re-iterating what I was saying about the functionality of the JF being the prime contributor to it's price, I suppose you just haven't realized how this adds up to the 1-4 steps of roughly foolproof logistics.


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