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I am having another issue with PI and I need help

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Acac Sunflyier Gallente Ketsui ga Katai	Posted - 2011.02.04 15:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 04/02/2011 15:16:05 Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 04/02/2011 15:09:15 I noticed that CCP did a fix on PI. So now my extractors are producing the right amount of resources. But I am now having an issue with transport. I fixed my lines so they can handle 80,000 units. But I've noticed that I don't have 80k show u at the storage. Here's what I mean. I have a head pulling up precious noble metals every 4 hours. My lines are big enough that all of it can travel to the space port where I have them being stored. I have two basics that turn 3000 every 30 minutes into precious metals. So basically 12,000 of the 80,000 in an hour. So I should have at least 6 hours worth pf production. But I look an hour after only na hour and my 80,000 has dwindled to a mere 12k. How is that happening? Edit Oh and by my lines being big enough. I mean that they're not overloaded. They're at 68%. Edit Is my math on the hourly usage wrong?
Chaviva Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.04 16:09:00 - [2] yes, basic factory takes 3k p0 every 15minutes so if on an hour your pulling 80k, in that time frame should look like this: 3k P0 per factory x2 = 6k total however each factory stores 3k for the next cycle if availble so 3k x2 = 6k Stored in factory Now your total should be 3k * 2 factory * 4 cycles = 24k per hour of total P0 plus the reserve the factory holds of 3k P0 * 2 = 30k will be out of your main spaceport or silo per hour Hope that helps a little
Greg Huff	Posted - 2011.02.04 16:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Chaviva yes, basic factory takes 3k p0 every 15minutes No. They run on 30 minute cycles, not 15. You're point about the 3,000 units in the buffer is correct. The 2 processors will consume a total of 12,000 units in an hour and produce 80 P1 products. Acac Sunflyier - you said your routes have been upgraded to handle 80,000 units, but is that what the extractor program is claiming to be producing? Are you looking at the individual cycles, or the total numbers in the lower right corner?
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Star Rangers	Posted - 2011.02.04 17:21:00 - [4] A few thoughts 1) The units of your transport of the lines are in m3, not in units of materials, trying to compare the two seems to be a common mistake 2) If you want to see how much material is actually being pulled out of the ground you need to check what the graph tells you therein lies the truth. With 2 P1 processors draining a stockpile here is what happens: After 1 second: each processor drains 3,,000 unit of P0 to process and 3,000 units into its buffer - Storage drained by 12,000 units (in a single second) After 30 minutes and 1 second - each processor finishes the first cycle sucks out an additional 3000 units of materials - Storage now drained by a total of 18,000 units. After 1 hour and 1 second - each processor has finished its second cycle and sucks out an additional 3000 units of materials - Storage now drained by a total of 24,000 units. Hope it helps.
Acac Sunflyier Gallente Ketsui ga Katai	Posted - 2011.02.04 19:54:00 - [5] Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 04/02/2011 19:55:14 Here is a picture
Berikath	Posted - 2011.02.04 20:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Berikath on 04/02/2011 20:36:57 Not sure I completely understand your problem, but this might be relevant: Due to the dynamic nature of the output of the ECUs, and the static nature of routes, the number shown under the products tab is a theoretical maximum one could output from a program (given the raw output of its extractor heads) and is always higher than what a single cycle of the program will output. Although slightly confusing, this guarantees that you will always be able to route every single unit produced by your ECU. * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
Acac Sunflyier Gallente Ketsui ga Katai	Posted - 2011.02.04 20:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Berikath Edited by: Berikath on 04/02/2011 20:36:57 Not sure I completely understand your problem, but this might be relevant: Due to the dynamic nature of the output of the ECUs, and the static nature of routes, the number shown under the products tab is a theoretical maximum one could output from a program (given the raw output of its extractor heads) and is always higher than what a single cycle of the program will output. Although slightly confusing, this guarantees that you will always be able to route every single unit produced by your ECU. So all I have to do is upgrade my routes until it is transporting them?
Invictra Atreides Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.04 21:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Invictra Atreides on 04/02/2011 21:59:13 Don't look at the links (56%). That number is only the max theoretical transfear. Hower the mouse over the graph and it will tell you how much you get in the next 15 min. You don't need to upgrade the links.
Berikath	Posted - 2011.02.04 22:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Acac Sunflyier Originally by: Berikath Edited by: Berikath on 04/02/2011 20:36:57 Not sure I completely understand your problem, but this might be relevant: Due to the dynamic nature of the output of the ECUs, and the static nature of routes, the number shown under the products tab is a theoretical maximum one could output from a program (given the raw output of its extractor heads) and is always higher than what a single cycle of the program will output. Although slightly confusing, this guarantees that you will always be able to route every single unit produced by your ECU. No. If the problem is what I suggested, the amount it says will go through your link is the theoretical ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM that could be used. Your actual extraction will be (perhaps MUCH) lower than this theoretical value, so don't use any figures based on link usage. So all I have to do is upgrade my routes until it is transporting them? * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
Minamel Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.02.05 07:44:00 - [10] The problem is that a 500m¦ link for 50.000 units cant transport 50.000 units because he "thinks" 50.000 is something like 80.000 or more.. Thanks to a weird dev explanation that makes no sense at all this is called working like intended. But what is a 80.000m¦ link? There is 500m¦ and 1000m¦ nothing between. So for an average of 12.000 units per hour it could be that you need 1000m¦ links maybe with a 4 hour cycle (wtf how long is your programm) an even bigger link could be nessecary. But after the patch it should show if it is overloaded.. Maybe reroute all connections and check all your linksizes..

Inspiration	Posted - 2011.02.05 19:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Minamel Edited by: Minamel on 05/02/2011 07:51:23 The problem is that a 500m¦ link for 50.000 units cant transport 50.000 units because he "thinks" 50.000 is something like 80.000 or more.. Thanks to a weird dev explanation that makes no sense at all this is called working like intended. But what is a 80.000 unit link? There is 500m¦ and 1000m¦ nothing between. So for an average of 12.000 units per hour it could be that you need 1000m¦ links maybe with a 4 hour cycle (wtf how long is your programm) an even bigger link could be nessecary. But after the patch it should show if it is overloaded.. Maybe reroute all connections and check all your linksizes.. But could it be that your extraction is very low? Your picture is to small to see but it looks like2271 Units average production per hour? (Programm Window bottom right) You need 12.000 per hour for two p1 fabs so try to lower your programm lenght. Dont look at the numbers in the link they are wrong and have nothing to to with your numbers. If on the ECU program, the max (peak) extraction output per hour below 50k units and for the most part above 25k units per hour, then by all means upgrade a link to level I. You at least get the amount you counted on and won't overflow your launchpad. This latter thing can be an issue when you use one storage for both final product as well as the mined resources when the mined resources suddenly go all out of proportion and occupy space needed for processed materials. Similar, if you use 2 ECU, think about each not exceeding the 25k units per hour, so you don't have to upgrade the links. You got to play in order to avoid nuggets tho, you know those brownish spikes usually at the start of a program. And what the dev meant by dynamic nature is that a hotspot can suddenly appear at a site you are mining at, increasing your output per hour considerably and almost certainly maxing out your links capacity. This unplanned increase in output is that is represented by the high number of materials to route from the ECU. Most of it is virtual tho, and will never actually happen! But if you got spare storage space and powergrid to upgrade your line, by all means, it doesn't hurt to be prepared when a nice surprise hits you :) And in case you don't know, you can type in the number of units to route from your ECU. If your ECU program runs on cycles on an hour, the maximum for an non-upgraded link is 25000 units. For a half hour cycle time, its 12500, etc. The system works quite well I have to say, and PI interface is one of the best thought out and implemented in the game, if not the best! And while it can take a lot of time to set something up right, it can be done very quickly as well if you are willing to go a little sub optimal! ECUs can be abandoned and a new one build if needed for cheap and links cost nothing at all, so tethering is a viable option. Another option is using two launchpads, spaced apart, connected by 1 non-upgraded link. Put 3 or 4 basic facilities around each, and depending on where you find the best resources, put a ECU next to one or both of the launchpads. Route 25000 units per hour over the link if you got PG to run one, and store the remainder in the launchpad next to the ECU. Well you get the idea, be creative on how you use ECU and links as these are cheap and very dynamic!
Minamel Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.02.06 11:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Minamel on 06/02/2011 11:46:05 No thats wrong. As far as i understand it a 25.000 Unit link CANT route 25.000 Units. Because if you really extract 25.000 Units in a peak cycle the 250m¦ link tells you that it is more and will not deliver the 25.000 it will deliver less than that. As i wrote the devs explain that with some weird theoretical numbers that could go through on a shiny day when your extraction would have been perfect. But fact is links are broken somehow and the numbers in the links are wrong. You always have to check your links and upgrade them more than it should be nessecary. Maching your higest hour peak cycle is not enough!


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