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Cunego
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Posted - 2005.01.27 11:46:00 -
[1]
From what I've gathered pirates feel as if they are mistreated by CCP. Why is this? I am writing my thesis on the subject of MMOGs and I'm interested in what actions CCP has taken to prevent/make it harder for pirates to pursue their chosen way of life in EVE.
This could be changes in the software as well as rules stipulated in the EULA or the Terms of Service.
Please help me out here!
thanks//
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/01/2005 12:22:19
Some things that has made it more difficult :
* Insurance increase - both a much longer duration and a default 40% insurance has made ppl less interested in paying ransom.
* Sentry guns now change targets every now and then, making the old way of having a few ships dedicated to tanking the sentries and still having small ships as tacklers invalid.
* Longer sentry gun range.
* 15 minute aggression timer - it used to be that the sentries only attacked if you committed a crime where the sentries could see it (actually this is probably also to fix an exploit where you could sit outside a grid and shoot ppl and not get shot at some gates).
* The mentioned 15 minute aggressin timer is bugged, it sometimes lasts a lot longer for some reason, and you can't tell whether you're flagged or not until you're shot by the sentries.
* Some systems have had an increase in security status, making travelling harder (since there are 0.5 systems in between almost everywhere) and also some got stuck in stations and/or got blown up when undocking from a system that was 0.4 before a patch and turned into 0.5 after the patch.
These have also had some effect but the effect isn't really related to CCP changes :
* People who log off to save their ships and/or pods, making ransoming more difficult/impossible and encouraging to destroy any ships as fast as possible and podkilling with smartbombs instead of trying to ransom
* Instant jump bookmarks. There are ways to counter these - warp bubbles - but you can't use them in 0.1+ and they are kinda expensive and takes a while to anchor/unanchor.
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Tyrozet
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:21:00 -
[3]
God this could take a while, you have opened a can of worms here my friend 
Ill start you off tho:
1) removal of jump in points
2) usage of insta jumps(not intended what they r used for)
3) WCS have no stacking penalties
4) Bubbles dont work all the time(yes its set up correctly)
5) Boring Flagging system
6) Insurance nerfed so the pilot barely looses anythign so unwilling to pay tolls.
7) Could go on and on and on but im sure you will here. Most importantly CCP bends over everytime the carebears cry loud enough! EVE doesnt dow hat it says on the tin anymore 
If you were waiting for the opportune moment that was it... |
Pyr8
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:24:00 -
[4]
All these changes that CCP make to nerf pirating just make it that little more interesting, still a very profitable way to make a living, and have plenty of fun at the same time!!
Unfortunetly there will come a time when it will be too dificult to pirate, when that happens you will no longer need rated security systems... just completly secure empire and anything goes 0.0
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:27:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Tyrozet
1) removal of jump in points
Good point. Just to clarify :
Before some patch (castor? I don't remember) you used to jump in to a planet, where there was no sentry guns. That was later changed so that you now end up at the gate you use to jump back to where you were.
Personally I don't really consider this to be that much of a problem though, I like the current gate <-> gate system better.
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Bexxly
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Tyrozet
1) removal of jump in points
Good point. Just to clarify :
Before some patch (castor? I don't remember) you used to jump in to a planet, where there was no sentry guns. That was later changed so that you now end up at the gate you use to jump back to where you were.
Personally I don't really consider this to be that much of a problem though, I like the current gate <-> gate system better.
Not really changed, more fixed. Gate to gate jumping was always what should have happened...
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Eviljohn
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Posted - 2005.01.27 12:34:00 -
[7]
Pirating isnt hard if u can use interceptors and co ships with a bs or bc as back up firepower.
What is hard is to ransom ppl as insurance is better , its no longer bothers me if they pay or not ive been playing for awhile and i dont need the cash im just happy to ganks them.
But thats where the problem is because new pirates can find it hard to finace themselfs and lots of pirates dont even bother to ransom they just kill kill KILL.
So carebears moan ,new pirates moan i laugh
But saying that half the time ppl moan about something theres and easy option around it carebears should use instas look at map use wcs and keep and eye on local, use the odd scout.
Pirates should learn how to use the scanner, use good alt scouts one in a co ship and useing him as a mobile bookmark is fun.
A mix of fast frigs and bs works well its not hard to catch ppl really!!
But half the time they jump in with -10 sec rating in a slow assed bs wondering y they cant find anyone
So most of the time its not ccp that is the problem its the ppl themselfs.
I think this game rocks only the log off tactic gets me annoyed,but hey i guess when your screwed and it is an option no matter how lame, it is an option
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fugazii
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Posted - 2005.01.27 16:42:00 -
[8]
pirates are mistreated by ccp because they are a business and they have to keep happy the main player base. who are you gonna listen to 98% of your customers who hate the 2%, or 2% who **** off the 98%? tbh most ppl in this game pay thier 15$ so they can slowly move back and forth through systems or click and drag an inch every minute, not for the combat.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.27 17:00:00 -
[9]
well pirate life is one thing, even if its hard its fun
i dont see how fun it is to hunt Factory/labslots - Yell at orethiefs or get gankked in 0.4
so i still think its sucks to be miner 
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Koda
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Posted - 2005.01.27 17:28:00 -
[10]
Many of the issues people complain about can be avoided or ignored by operating in 0.0. A person can pretty much do whatever they want.
People in 0.0 are more likely to pay ransom since they're usually flying Tech 2 pinatas where the modules are worth more than the ship.
--------------
Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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noitulos
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Posted - 2005.01.27 17:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: noitulos on 27/01/2005 17:34:20
lets see...going back from the beginning I think the biggest empire piracy nerfs are:
1) sec rating decay removed (now must hunt NPCs to get increase, used to be a decay of .1 per day)
2) sentry's range increased from 60, to 150+km
3) concord mega boosted (no way to pass thru safe space anymore)
4) many systems in the eve universe boosted in sec rating (moving around more difficult with low sec..ie sarum, arzanni, etc..)
3) insurance boost so no real financial loss (no ransoming anymore)..altho with implants ransoming pods still viable but 20x harder to catch
4) warp core stabs low slot units (used to be 'activated' mid slot units).
5) instajumps
6) log off exploit never fixed (warp away even if scrammed)
7) -5 sec rating = open season on anyone
8) criminal flagging (red brackets no longer work btw)
some of these listed are actually PvP nerfs (instajumps, WCS, logoff exploit) more than pirate ones, but nerfs about sec ratings, concord, sentry's, etc.. are pirate nerfs.
Piracy is still very viable, but instead of locking down and ransoming ships..most times we must blow them up before they log and rummage thru the loot can.
Also, its still very possible to pirate in 0.0 but as someone once told me... all PvPers in 0.0 are basically warriors anyway, just sorta flying under different flags.
______________________________________________
"Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought."
-Sun Tsu |
Cunego
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Posted - 2005.01.28 11:02:00 -
[12]
Great stuff. Thanks alot everyone who contributed. I also understand that CCP are trying to help out the larger part of the player base through their actions. So what kind of behaviour in the game is encouraged by CCP, what kind of life do they want you to live inside the universe?
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2005.01.28 12:46:00 -
[13]
i'll reiterate here also, people like to spread urban myths about piracy, ie paying ransom and having your ship blown up.
people believe whiny carebears and so people are more reluctant to pay through fear of paying and losing ship.
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2005.01.28 12:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cunego
Great stuff. Thanks alot everyone who contributed. I also understand that CCP are trying to help out the larger part of the player base through their actions. So what kind of behaviour in the game is encouraged by CCP, what kind of life do they want you to live inside the universe?
mining in jita.
if it comes to that, hey, i'll just buy three accounts, macromine and and ebay the isk.. then everyone is happy 
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.01.28 15:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eviljohn
Pirates should learn how to use the scanner, use good alt scouts one in a co ship and useing him as a mobile bookmark is fun.
So most of the time its not ccp that is the problem its the ppl themselfs.
That's exactly my problem with it. In order to hunt you HAVE to use an alt to do it as there is no facilities or ability to hunt with your main char, no stealth, no chance to ambush.
The log off tactics is also another factor that encourages ganking as people want to ensure they get somthing for catching the prey rather than watching it vanish into thin air. And knowing ive made somone log off doesn't make me feel like I've won anything and im pretty sure the prey doesn't give a toss since they go away in one piece.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
DarkAlpha
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Posted - 2005.01.28 16:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
i'll reiterate here also, people like to spread urban myths about piracy, ie paying ransom and having your ship blown up.
people believe whiny carebears and so people are more reluctant to pay through fear of paying and losing ship.
It is a good thing people believe whiny carebears than whiny pirats.
Everyone sing their song no matter who u are carebear or a master,super,elite pirat. Everyone complains about something. But ... you cant make happy everybody.
No forgiveness with out bloodshed! |
Drogon
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Posted - 2005.01.28 19:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tyrozet
3) WCS have no stacking penalties
there's no stacking penalty for warp scramblers and there's a module that give -2 warp strength.
i would say that the biggest downfall to piracy is their own laziness. i mean how hard is it to sit at a gate and kill everything that comes to it? then jump out when someone comes in with guns mounted.
If you really want to pirate then hunt for your prey. go to belts etc. but to sit at a gate and gank everything in sight with no risk is carebearing in my book. so im glad they made it more difficult for pirates. this game is full of risk verses reward. where's the risk of gate camping?
Director, Divine Retribution
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drogon
Originally by: Tyrozet
where's the risk of gate camping?
Umm, maybe that youre sitting there tanking the gate guns with your 200m ship and then someone shows up in his 100k frig, scrambles you and you lose your ship.
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flummox
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:17:00 -
[19]
Please rename your thread. Should read:
FlameFest 2K5 - Post against pirates and become a target.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Kralor Darkilon
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Posted - 2005.01.28 21:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eviljohn
<snip>
So most of the time its not ccp that is the problem its the ppl themselfs.
<snip>
...and there you have it. Well put. 
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Widjet
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Posted - 2005.01.28 22:28:00 -
[21]
Seems theres always a debate about this and what is pircay too , basically there ppl who want to roleplay pirates and try to do so , this is tough and often results in bletent coldblooded murder of as much as possible and pick up the loot. But if you are dedicated enough you can find ways of making good money thru piracy. Ransoming is great tho very rare ive found to actually be able to do.
Also flummox is a bad target any pirates he might be quite the most annoying person on the forums but he will bore you out of targetting him by sitting in a station for a week if you war dec his corp. I know becasue huff did this , very boring
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Odet
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Posted - 2005.01.28 22:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Odet on 28/01/2005 22:45:35
the most frustrating thing about being a pirate is jumping into a system and everyone logs off instantly 
or
someone who i will not name, who logs off everytime we scarmble him and somehow manages to disapear in like 30 seconds...... we'll get u, u *&@ker...
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.01.28 23:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Seth Killbain on 28/01/2005 23:28:32
In reply to the insurance payout covering ships so ransom dont work anymore. Complete cobblers. My BS represents only half the value of the ship inc modules, and my setups aint that uber, i wouldnt want to lose it carelessly.
A LOT of people have more then a 100 mill easily plugged into their heads, with these facts people complain that insurance devalues ship loss and poddings? I view a payout as almost cheeky in comparison to the total loss overall, invalid point really.
Logoff tactics, i agree, bit lame in PvP, but many other factors apart from your occasion loss of a killmail, like the other 60% of the server that may suffer from CTDs or lagg etc blah blah, so on.
As for the others, ie, timers, sentries and so on, well from
very recent personnal experience with a familiar face in here, i have seen a solo pirate take on a much larger group, and continualy evade said group through tactics, and use of the systems implemented.
Does that make this pirate a "carebear" as you call it? i think he would strongly disagree. He could manage it through thought and tactics and still score kills.
So what is it you lot seem to be doing wrong then :P
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Kurosuga Sin
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:06:00 -
[24]
I would just like to mention one thing: Pirates can hardly blame non-pirates for mistrusting them, you are, after all....well...pirates 
Look at it this way: you're flying your shiney new Raven, kitted out with a shedload of tasty modules, named or tech 2 mostly, and you get locked-down by a vastly superior force. They demand X-million ISK, or they will blow up your ship/pod. Where is the incentive for them to let you go? Once you pay the money, they can still blow you up and have a good chance of getting some decent mods in the can, and lets face it, there are plenty of players in EVE who fly the pirate flag but are really only interested in destroying people's hard work.
I dont really hold an opinion either way, but its really a little silly to moan that nobody trusts pirates
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.01.29 01:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kurosuga Sin
there are plenty of players in EVE who fly the pirate flag but are really only interested in destroying people's hard work.
Who? This is more of an urban myth then anything.
I would suspect at least half of the people who get killed after paying a ransom post on the forums to complain about it. I see between 1 and 3 of those posts a month.
What so many people claim as concrete facts are really just third and fourth-hand stories, at best.
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have2laugh
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Posted - 2005.01.29 03:11:00 -
[26]
And can I just throw my 2 pence worth in here? thanks. Anyway, Ive found that a much more regular occurance tahn pirates accepting a ransom and then heartlessly blowing up the ship anyway is something that goes along the lines of this:
sheep: "dont shoot! I'll pay"
rat" how much?" sheep:" 2 million?"
rat:"lol 2 million? 10 million and we let you go.."
sheep:" ok ok! 10 million, your in my armour stop shooting"
*rat turns off guns but keeps tank suppressed*
sheep:" um.. how do i give you money? oh wait Ive found it"
rat:" hurry up man or your toast"
sheep" erm.. just a minute Im having a problem here."
*10 new players suddenly appear in local from the sheeps corp*
rat:"why you little..." *KABOOM!* *rats warp to planet and to safespot*
sheep "whaaaaa!! the pirates ransomed me and then killed me anyway.. whaaa!! whaaa..."
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