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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:14:00 -
[1]
Level 4 missions are too easy.
In an offending way to some people I have a analogy here:
In WOW I can't solo many missions/dungeons atfer I get my levelw higher, then I am forced to have a team and people are forced to be in a team with me.
In EVE I can solo all the level 4s, I can solo all of the DED space with an alt. I am not supposed to be in a fleet with other people and many people don't like to form a fleet with me.
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Incursion is funny but doesn't last long, I have got several fleets to do the incursions but have to change place every day. Have it lasts longer and more sites(I think you are doning this CCP :)), will make it better.
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When people are forced to do missions together, local communities grow. After people getting farmilar and done lots missions, maybe one day a carebear would say "hey let's to low-sec to have a roaming" and get some followers.
Now, most people solos their missions. When they try to get a fleet from their corp if they have one, they might found their mates are spread around, in different regions.
I assume making high-sec missions boring is one of the strategies to make people move to low-sec or null-sec. But I just worry CCP you are moving too fast and to a wrong aspect.
When should we force people to and when should we attract people to is a very strategic question. In my opinion, in a game, we shoud force people to make more profit and attract people to lose money for fun.
While you may hope players would form the communities on theirown as the best advantage of EVE: "you can do anything you want", "free", "just let the players to adjust it". But don't forget all of those success are based on a proper game-mac still.
If there was no insurance in the game, little people will do the gankage. If NPC sells POS fuel in cheap still, little people will do the PI. If rats loot drops lots zydrine and megacyte, little people will minging in null-sec. If capturing enermy system gets little reward, little people will do the dungeons. If there is not obvious need to form a fleet to do lv.4 mission, little people will form a fleet also.
When the game system is not really friendly to team missioning, players can't simply change the world.
Now EVE doing is try to attract people to make more profit and force people to lose money for fun.
Carebears makes money otherwise the servers can't afford them. Ban anybody farm 12 hours a day 5 days a week for no reason(If they are real students or jobless it is not professional to make money in this way) but not punish everybody please, you can't do that. ------------------
And for the pvp features/rules I have to say that the balance between world-reality and game-play ought to be handled well, at least moves smoothly as a game. That's would be another topic.
----------------------- How to do?
In my experience in WOW, sometimes if you can't kill rats fast enough, you get surrounded. So keep spawn elite cruisers would working.
Or Final mission boss reps fast, very fast, or ECMs(Better idea I think).
Another barrage for people to form a fleet in missions is the stroy line. Simply nerf it. People will/Should get implants from LP store.
What's more, rat bounty takes too heavy a part of the reward from a mission(High-sec), which just keep peolpe from finishing the mission but killing the rats. Reduce the bounty and higher the lp and isk reward for missions.
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Eura Sukor
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Eura Sukor on 07/02/2011 13:22:14 If only there were higher level missions.... you know... ones that were more challenging and offered less bounties and higher LP. We could call them level 5 missions!
EDIT: I'll TLDR summarize the OP for people: Stealth move-level-5s-to-highsec whine.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar The Reformed Chaos Theory Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:25:00 -
[3]
Lv4's are not the hard pve in eve.
Try some lv5's or incursion sites if you want group oriented pve.
Quote: If there was no insurance in the game, little people will do the gankage. If NPC sells POS fuel in cheap still, little people will do the PI. If rats loot drops lots zydrine and megacyte, little people will minging in null-sec. If capturing enermy system gets little reward, little people will do the dungeons. If there is not obvious need to form a fleet to do lv.4 mission, little people will form a fleet also.
No insurance would make little difference on the ganks imo. People do it for fun, not for profit. Mining is boring that is why so little people do it.
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Eura Sukor EDIT: I'll TLDR summarize the OP for people: Stealth move-level-5s-to-highsec whine.
Thanks for the summary.
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Goldman Suchs
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:31:00 -
[5]
Quote: blah blah blah Eve should be like WOW blah blah
How about no?
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Asp IV
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:41:00 -
[6]
Please post in your native tongue. I'm sure google translate will do a much better job.
/rabble rabble.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:47:00 -
[7]
Moved from General Discussion to Missions & Complexes.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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DoNotTouch
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:49:00 -
[8]
eventho most of the people here are raging about the fact that you mentioned "wow", i will say that the point of the post is not so bad.
the problem is, that fleeting up doesnt give you the chance to make more isk in less time at the same risk.
simply change this and you will have your fleet.
and yea, to all the wow haters, well wow is in fact way better at the pve part than eve, everyone who says "omg eve is not wow, go back to wow, eve should be the way it is, because if it changes it MIGHT be somewhat more like wow and we are so scared of the mmorpg-god-wow that we like to stay in our individual eve and cant like anything else". Well, be open for something "new".
i play eve for the pvp part of the game but a close friend of mine stopped playing eve after some months because he had his cnr and there was no way to just simply fleet up, join voice and make even more iskies to achieve a bigger goal (yea, where is the big goal after you have your cnr/golem faction fitted.) he was bored out of the game.
so, missions need some love, incursions are already a good way there, but as the op said, fleeting up must have a good sideeffect. plus to that it can be combined to buff lowsec a little.
my 2 cents
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S'Way
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Posted - 2011.02.07 13:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kogh Ayon many people don't like to form a fleet with me.
That's what player corps are for. If your own corp members won't fleet up with you, then there's probably a good reason why.
Originally by: Kogh Ayon In my experience in WOW
Applying logic from a game that's designed for a completely different target audience is good sense.
Originally by: Kogh Ayon When people are forced to do missions together, local communities grow.
Just pointing out the obvious but there's L5's and faction warfare missions that were designed for that - they pretty much failed...incursions will go the same way (if they aren't already). It would be financial suicide for CCP to do as you suggest as many people will simply quit any game if you try to force them to group up.
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Cosmar
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 14:18:00 -
[10]
There's Wormhole space, Incursions, Level 5 missions, 0.0 complexes.
More than enough opportunity for group PvE play. Stop whining about level 4s one way or the other they've ceased to be EvE's "top level" PvE content a long time ago.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.07 16:23:00 -
[11]
The people who make L4s look easy have been playing for years, and trained all the skills to do them as efficiently as possible.
They aren't easy to just anyone, but i support the spreading the idea they are, so more players lose ships to them.
Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Danna Hande
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Posted - 2011.02.07 16:32:00 -
[12]
christ, go away with wow! there is a reason why wow community is so terrible and eve community is excellent. go back to play wow and donŠt bring its idiocy here.
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De BuG2
Gallente Rise on Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.07 16:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kogh Ayon I can solo all of the DED space with an alt.
What? --------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Rina Maas
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula The people who make L4s look easy have been playing for years, and trained all the skills to do them as efficiently as possible.
They aren't easy to just anyone, but i support the spreading the idea they are, so more players lose ships to them.
Level 4s are easy - made even more so with the introduction of rigs. It is simply not possible to fail at L4s unless you are trying to do them in a navitas or with your eyes closed (although it is possible).
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rina Maas
Originally by: Professor Tarantula The people who make L4s look easy have been playing for years, and trained all the skills to do them as efficiently as possible.
They aren't easy to just anyone, but i support the spreading the idea they are, so more players lose ships to them.
Level 4s are easy - made even more so with the introduction of rigs. It is simply not possible to fail at L4s unless you are trying to do them in a navitas or with your eyes closed (although it is possible).
Go do Smash the Supplier solo and get back to me.
Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 07/02/2011 17:35:01
Originally by: Kogh Ayon Level 4 missions are too easy.
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When people are forced to do missions together, local communities grow.
When should we force people to and when should we attract people to is a very strategic question. In my opinion, in a game, we shoud force people to make more profit and attract people to lose money for fun.
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I don't give a rat's ass about "community building", fleeting up with "my mates", or having to do anything in Eve relying on other players.
That restricts a lot of what I do, but there is still a lot to do in Eve that achieves my goal of relaxation, escapism, being challenged, and achieving goals. That's what I pay my subscription fee for.
I do not play Eve because I am lonely and desire the comraderie of like minds. I do not need to hold hands with other players and sing the Amarr version of "kumbaya".
And I certainly don't need other players forcing their version of what an ideal MMORPG is down my throat because Eve is not like WOW or any other g.d. game.
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Cambarus
Thunderfury Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:44:00 -
[17]
1)There is lots of group oriented PVE in the game, there's even some in highsec now.
2)The reason people get all ****y when you mention making eve more like wow is that the people who like eve tend not to like wow and vice versa. YOU might think it's a good idea to make eve more like a game that YOU like, but the majority of the eve players who do NOT like wow will think that this is a bad idea. Let's also not forget that there are a LOT of games out there that tried to be WoW, and most of them end up failing miserably. Eve is doing well as it is, let's not add it to the list of dead wow clones just yet mmkay? |
Nuela
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Posted - 2011.02.07 18:37:00 -
[18]
What would be cool (and I say this posting as my mission isk-faucet alt) would be for the missions to stay the same or even decrease the number of rats but make those rats realistic. Give them the real capabilities of their ships.
This would make lvl 4's impossible without a fleet. It would also dramatically slow down the rate of isk flowing into the econmy as well as minerals (reprocessed mission loot) and salvage.
This would be a good thing imo.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.07 19:05:00 -
[19]
Level 4 missions aren't supposed to be hard, as they are intended as a way to earn ISK to buy ships for PvP.
If you are just grinding missions, you will quickly find EVE very boring. This is intentional though.
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Xaou Lei
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Posted - 2011.02.07 19:20:00 -
[20]
If they're too easy, do something more challenging, like suicide ganking. Oh wait. "Well ya see, Norm, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. |
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.07 19:37:00 -
[21]
I think for a lot of people things get screwed up because they're looking at simply completing them, but if it takes you 4 hours or more in a Drake or something to finish one, you're better off blitzing L3s for better isk/hour.
The people who are spending entire days on just 2 or 3 L4s are not getting close to the income people usually attribute to properly trained and experienced L4 mission runners. And if you enter an L4 in a BS as a newer player, you will lose it.
Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Jen Tarii
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:10:00 -
[22]
If Level 4 missions are cakewalk for you, head to lo-sec, accept a Level 5 mission from an agent and then watch your ship melt if you go solo. Not only will you have to fend off nasty rats but nasty human players too. Oh the joy of losing your salvage and loot to ninjas in a Level 5 mission.
Btw, setting up a fleet is no picnic in Eve. Fleeting up can take the better part of 30 mins to an hour while everyone is fitting their ship for the mission or task at hand. Maybe you have to buy supplies before you can fly and what you need is 3 jumps over. It can take quite a bit of time to just form a fleet before it can sail. That is why there is a lot of solo playing. Also, you have to learn fleet mechanics to do it well. Carebears are notorious for being noobs in a Fleet as they have zero group experience apart from their alt. A Carebear may be an exellent solo player but taking on a fleet role is a different ball of wax.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Hannibals Commando's
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:20:00 -
[23]
I do missions, I do them very well and I do now find level 4's easy.
But this wasn't always the case. They used to be really bloody hard when my character was younger, and I lost ships then and I even lost a ship recently due to a totally **** up and I bad triggered an entire room.
They are easy for higher sp characters, but the jump from level 3 - 4 is big when it first happens.
People too easily forget the hell it was when you first try them.
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Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:23:00 -
[24]
True. L4's in a meta4 fit T1 BS with 800k SP are quite hard actually.
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leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:13:00 -
[25]
This sounds a lot like two threads I have already posted on. level 4's are easy for properly trained and geared pilots. There is no need to fleet for most high sec content. Fleet is actually discouraged if the intent is isk/lp. The push to low sec is not the answer. As I have said previously, PVE geared players with little or no PVP training and experience simply lose their ships and the fun of the game with it. Depending on your reason for doing the level 4's try them in different ships and fits for fun and challenge. regards, Leavwiz
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Tanthius Vanter
Gallente Vanter Ventures
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula The people who make L4s look easy have been playing for years, and trained all the skills to do them as efficiently as possible.
They aren't easy to just anyone, but i support the spreading the idea they are, so more players lose ships to them.
Incorrect. I was soloing level 4's after barely more than a month of playing. (I cheated and trained for a Dominix so I didn't need to spend time training large guns at first.) Granted, before I got T2 tank I had to warp out on some Angels or mercs missions, but that's about it. You don't need to be playing for years with tons of skills for them to be easy.
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Tanthius Vanter
Gallente Vanter Ventures
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Posted - 2011.02.08 01:01:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tanthius Vanter on 08/02/2011 01:01:48
Originally by: S'Way
Just pointing out the obvious but there's L5's and faction warfare missions that were designed for that - they pretty much failed...incursions will go the same way (if they aren't already).
No they won't. The difference is for Incursions bringing along other people doesn't diminish your reward. I have little incentive to bring a fleet for level 4's since then I'd be splitting the rewards with them, so the only reason to do it is if it's with a friend you want to fleet with for fun. For Incursions, even for the soloable sites you can bring up to 5 people and get the exact same reward, so there's no reason not to form a fleet.
Edit: Woops, forgot to edit this into the previous post. Now I must bear the shame of a double post, alas.
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knentil
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Posted - 2011.02.08 01:09:00 -
[28]
yup I agree, L4s are wayyyy to easy in multibill fit golems/paladins, machs and tengus.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.08 05:49:00 -
[29]
I agree that existing missions are too easy. Once you read up the guide and run the mission once, there is really nothing new that is ever going to happen,
Incursions are a step in the right direction. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Commander Nemesid
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Posted - 2011.02.08 10:28:00 -
[30]
After some point (about 50+ runs) and decent ship equip/skills lvl4 missions get borring. Its still same, same ships, same triggers, same spawns. What solo players needs is random content. When i fly to misions I already know all spawns and what i will shoot first. Its brainless. I can imagine random triggers, more waves, random groups of BS. We already have that idea in several missions (like Blockade) and i like to do this missions. You must think a bit or you trigger 2-3 waves and get screwed. But what i think is best.. escalation. Make more gates, harder and harder, more objectives, more objectives you do = bigger reward. Are you new? You will do 1-2 gates, fullfill minor objectives. Are you veteran? You can accept chalenge and go further, for major objectives.... Sadly this will be forever dream.
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