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Myriel Viper
Amarr
3FM
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Posted - 2011.02.07 14:02:00 -
[1]
I have read through the tracking guide found at:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf
And there is one thing that puzzles me when it comes to transversal velocity: Doesn't the rotation of the firing ship itself add to the tracking speed of the turret?
For example, if two ships rotate around each other, both flying 100 m/s in opposed directions their transversal velocity would be 200 m/s, but their turrets actually wouldn't have to move at all, because the ships own rotation compensates and angular velocity completely, i.e. kind of a tracking speed not of the turret, but the ship itself...
And another: What happens if the target moves too fast for the turret to track? Will the turret never hit? Or is there a chance to hit based on how often the target passes through a position where the turret can reach it?
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gfldex
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Posted - 2011.02.07 14:08:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Myriel Viper
For example, if two ships rotate around each other, both flying 100 m/s in opposed directions their transversal velocity would be 200 m/s, but their turrets actually wouldn't have to move at all, because the ships own rotation compensates and angular velocity completely, i.e. kind of a tracking speed not of the turret, but the ship itself...
A piece of software making calculations is not the same as physics as they are (supposed to be) teached in school.
Originally by: Myriel Viper
And another: What happens if the target moves too fast for the turret to track? Will the turret never hit? Or is there a chance to hit based on how often the target passes through a position where the turret can reach it?
Wreckings used to hit all the time. That was "fixed" with weapon grouping.
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 14:55:00 -
[3]
The ship's alignment, rotation and turret alignment are NOT used in the tracking calculation. The two ships are simply seen as points in space with a certain vector and "size". What direction the ship is facing, or where the guns are pointing does not matter.
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Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
Zanzbar
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Posted - 2011.02.07 15:12:00 -
[4]
as said above the rotation of your ship dosent mater, but its movement does in a way.
say your in a battleship runing level 4s with a rack of tachyon beams (long range, poor tracking) and you have a cruiser orbiting you at 5km and hes going 200 m/s which you will not normally be able to hit with your guns. however even though you are slower (100m/s) you can match its direction while going full speed to efectivly reduce the targets speed relativeto you to only 100m/s, and as you have match its direction as well it also severly cuts down on its transveral. so now your large inacurate guns actualy have a prety good chance of hiting this much smaller and faster target at close range.
tl/dr mtaching target speed and direction improves accuracy
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Matalino
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Posted - 2011.02.07 15:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Myriel Viper
And there is one thing that puzzles me when it comes to transversal velocity: Doesn't the rotation of the firing ship itself add to the tracking speed of the turret?
Eve is a game, not a physics simulation. When designing the game the developers decided that adjusting tracking for the rotation of the ship would be counter productive to game balance. Therefore the rotation of the ship has no effect on tracking. Originally by: Myriel Viper
And another: What happens if the target moves too fast for the turret to track? Will the turret never hit? Or is there a chance to hit based on how often the target passes through a position where the turret can reach it?
You always have a chance to hit. Chance to hit with tracking follows the same curve as chance to hit with falloff: 1/2 x falloff/tracking = ~84% chance to hit; 1x falloff/tracking = 50% chance to hit; 2x falloff/tracking = 6.25% chance to hit. You will find the turret damage here.
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PureMurder
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Myriel Viper
Doesn't the rotation of the firing ship itself add to the tracking speed of the turret?
Or subtract from it, sure. But it doesn't affect gameplay. Physics in eve are invented to be fun, kinda like jumping in Mario Bros or whatever. They frequently differ from real world physics.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:40:00 -
[7]
There are a lot of absurd things in computer games.
In Planetside the highest altitude the aircraft could fly was 400meters. In that game - 400meters was a long distance. Part of the problem here is that IRL you have infinite resolution but a computer monitor doesn't. Also the game would have had to track all those things beyond 400 meters which it didn't want to do.
In EVE you can shoot right through asteroids which you can't fly through under normal power - but which you can fly through at warp.
The whole tracking speed thing really is absurd. There is no way a ship could orbit another ship faster than that ship could rotate on it's axis - unless the other ship was vastly larger and slower - but - as with Planetside - the developers sacrificed some realism to create a gaming system with ... what we used to call in board gaming - greater playability.
The other thing you'll notice is that the maneuvering system in EVE sucks. I mean - you point the mouse vaguely in the direction of the way you want to go and then double click? What the hell kind of steering mechanism is that?
But - that is what they chose to do ... so ... *shrug* there's no point in worrying about it - they're not going to change it now.
My guess ... is that when they were designing the game ... they didn't want a game that required a mouse and a joy stick - and I have played games that do. So with the need to be able to click on the HUD with the mouse - and not wanting to require a joy stick - they opted for the maneuvering system we have.
The thing is ... since you simply click on a target in your overview and tell your ship to lock that target - there isn't as much need for fine flight controls as there would be in a flight sim - where you actually have to point the aircraft at the target (or lead it) in order to be able to hit it.
So ... the crude maneuvering system we have works ... it's just not what you'd expect.
What's really flawed - is the warp system. You should be able to directly warp to any place in a solar system. But you can't ... now. Open your people and places/places tab while in space and click on the create bookmark button down at the bottom of the screen. Note how when it comes up - it displays a set of XYZ coordinates. I was told that in earlier days - you could put in the coordinates that you wanted - and thus create a bookmark you could warp to anywhere in the system. This was removed, I was told, because people were using it to create bookmarks that were much farther away than CCP wanted.
Of course - all they had to do - was put limits on the values that could be entered as coordinates - but in a bit of lazy programming that is actually a lot more common than you would think - they simply denied you the ability to enter the coordinates - and could thus only warp to celestials - or - place a bookmark where ever some mission randomly sent you.
Talk about absurd ...
If you ever try and create some Safe Spots in a system where you've not run missions ... you'll see just how ****ed up this is ... but ... better to screw the users than make the programmers write competent code ...
*shrug*
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Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.02.08 10:48:00 -
[8]
Eve ships are points in space with a defined collision radius. They have no directionality as far as the game is concerned.
Distance is calculated by |(your location) - (other guy's location)| - (your radius + his radius), more complicated spatial relationships are reserved for terrain, and most of that is spheres, too, or undefined (there is no cover in space for some reason).
Collisions are largely elastic, which is hilarious when a big ship bumps a small one. Acceleration is based on mass and the set force of the thrusters, the latter being summed up in an "agility" number. There is an effective "drag force" that sets a terminal velocity for any given ship.
Coordinates are calculated on a three-axis geometry, no rotational math is used (a necessity of the ships-are-points simplification).
That's it, the entire physics of Eve. Don't overthink it.
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If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
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