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SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.09 17:49:00 - [1] So one of the most frustrating things about this game is the inability to escape a fight which you have totally no chance of winning. The principle dominating element is being warp scrambled. So in order to understand the nature of my worst nemesis in game, I researched a bit into the 'warp scrambler' & 'warp disruptor' and potencial countermeasures...I discovered something pretty disturbing. Warp disruptor = warp scramble strength 1 Warp scrambler = warp scramble strength 2 Warp scrambler II = warp scramble strength 2 Warp core stab = warp stability 1 Warp core stab II = warp stability 1 Is it just me, or does anyone else see a glaring issue with warp scramblers vs warp stabs? Why doesn't a warb stab II give a 2 point bonus to stability? The only difference I can tell is that it gives some crap extra 6% bonus to something or other, I would expect to see a 2 point stab strength on a tech 2. Again i'm inclined it's a damn good successful attempt at making sure there are plenty of blown up ships. Some of us actually dont want to loose our ships to unbalanced, unfair elements of snaring.
Dhaul Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.02.09 17:51:00 - [2] 0/10
deathpain Gallente Affinity for Spades	Posted - 2011.02.09 18:51:00 - [3] Answer, keep ship aligned to a safe spot at all times if in doubt of safety. Keep an eye on directional scanner and constantly scan every couple of seconds (not flawless, people like me can instant scan your ship) Have your overview set up so that you have a tab for non blue's, so you instantly see them if they are warping in, then you can instantly warp out. Its not impossible, its something that you need to think about in all situations "if im attacked now will i survive" Your attacker has put plenty of thought and skill into trying to kill you, so why should you be given tools that doesnt require any skill to stay alive ?
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.02.09 20:28:00 - [4] Originally by: SallyJ Why doesn't a warb stab II give a 2 point bonus to stability? The only difference I can tell is that it gives some crap extra 6% bonus to something or other, I would expect to see a 2 point stab strength on a tech 2. Would you like to see an Armageddon with +16 warp strength that is smartbombing a gate? How about capital ships with +12 or +14 warp strength that can not JUST smartbomb but also sending out fighters throughout the system it is in? What about sniper ships that warp in at range, start killing people, and then warp off as soon as some small, fast ship has point? The idea behind stabs is that they offer some degree of "safety" but at a high cost (scan res and targeting range is cut in half). This is why [most] non-fail PvP don't use them... to get the necessary amount of "safety" you have to gimp your ship overall. Originally by: SallyJ Again i'm inclined it's a damn good successful attempt at making sure there are plenty of blown up ships. Some of us actually dont want to loose our ships to unbalanced, unfair elements of snaring. You're playing the wrong game then. EvE isn't fair. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
SmokeMeAKipper Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.09 20:55:00 - [5] Originally by: deathpain Your attacker has put plenty of thought and skill into trying to kill you, so why should you be given tools that doesnt require any skill to stay alive ? nicely put - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - placeholder for something witty - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.09 21:10:00 - [6] Originally by: SallyJ Why doesn't a warb stab II give a 2 point bonus to stability? You could just as well ask why a t2 scrambler doesnt give 4 points of warp scrambling, or a t2 disruptor 2 points of scrambling. Strength doesnt vary for the t2 modules, its the 'secondary' attributes that do.
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.09 22:38:00 - [7] "Your attacker has put plenty of thought and skill into trying to kill you, so why should you be given tools that doesnt require any skill to stay alive " you mean when they put all that thought and skill in attacking / killing me whilst in a hauler? But exactly what i mean, defenceless ships then get the chance to get away.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2011.02.09 23:25:00 - [8] Originally by: deathpain Your attacker has put plenty of thought and skill into trying to kill you, so why should you be given tools that doesnt require any skill to stay alive ? Actually, the ability to evade a ship sitting on a gate in PVP requires more skill points than sitting on gate locking one and pointing it. It also requires more quick thinking, prior planning and situational awareness to get your ship out alive than Ctrl+click lolpoint. So your point is moot. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2011.02.10 00:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 10/02/2011 00:16:33 EVE Chronicle - The Loser Quote: But before he could finish selecting a destination for his warp he noticed that the Caldari had scrambled him, preventing him from entering warp... In the meantime Victor activated his anti-scrambling unit - due to the strength of the Caldari scrambler it would take a full minute to de-scramble the warp drive. While I had the same thought about the +1 whether it's a T1 or T2 WCS, I wanna know where our active WCS are? Something that adds to warp strength with each cycle. Or something that makes scram more chance based instead of just a guaranteed lockdown. - Explosions! ORE Field Offices POS vs DUST
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:09:00 - [10] OK been researching more into the mechanics of these OP devices.. "Disrupts the target ship's navigation computer which prevents it from warping." So, ok, here's one.. "disrupts the ships navigation computer.." Begs the question.. Switch the damn computer off then... align to target, punch the warp button, punch the warp exit button. Technically, then, you know distance to target - you know your ships warp speed - and you know the time it takes for the warp drive to disengage. Who needs a computer to perform some simple maths? Defenseless ships should therefore have a manual engage warp button. In the day and age of jump drives and cloning, i'm sure ship builders can add a button to switch on warp. Continuity is all over the place. My mind boggles. Unless it is like i said, simply a mechanic to ensure ships are pointlessly destroyed so players with "skill" can once more celebrate, and crack the champagne over another defenseless industrial gank.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:13:00 - [11] Originally by: SallyJ So in order to understand the nature of my worst nemesis in game, I researched a bit into the 'warp scrambler' & 'warp disruptor' and potencial countermeasures...I discovered something pretty disturbing. Warp disruptor = warp scramble strength 1 Warp scrambler = warp scramble strength 2 Warp scrambler II = warp scramble strength 2 There's +3 scramblers too. Enjoy
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:51:00 - [12] LOL. and CCP want to know why so many pilots never venture out in anything less than 0.5. Scratches head you know I just 'cannot' figure out why! Well, I'm now one of them so enjoy the quiet and op ship fittings
Daphne Q	Posted - 2011.02.10 14:56:00 - [13] You could always just add more wcs modules. Not enough low slots? Then train for a ship with more lows. True, you'll never be completely safe. No matter how many modules you fit you can always be scrammed/disrupted by enough ships to overcome your wcs. But you will be safer. That's something. Right?
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.10 15:39:00 - [14] Well my beef was that I was going to transport some minerals from 0.0 to high, and filled every low slot on my sigil with warp stabs, that was 5 tech 2 stabs. I hit a gate camp, with bubble, tried to turn back and run, i managed to get out of the bubble, but 2 interceptors managed to lock me down. If they had a scrambler each that would have been +4 scrambler strength, so having 5 stab modules fitted means I should have had a -5 to stability. So clearly one of them must have had a dual scrambler, and the other ship a scrambler / web fit. That makes a scramble strength of 6, where as my stability was 5. To me that is just OP, just ******ed. Which is why my beef is that each stab II should have a stability of 2, that way I'd have had a stability of 10. and been able to backtrack before a couple of cruisers had time to slowboat through the bubble and toy with me at their leisure. So now the reason for this post is out, time to say i could have done this could have done that, its just disproportionately biased towards getting your ship unnecessarily destroyed. I didn't loose anything of value, hence the sigil, I got my pod out of there, but the principle of it..
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.02.10 16:32:00 - [15] Would now be a bad time to mention "infinite points"? (AKA focused warp disruption script) Put as many stabs on as you like, it'll do no good
WitchKingOfAgamar	Posted - 2011.02.10 16:36:00 - [16] Originally by: SallyJ Well my beef was that I was going to transport some minerals from 0.0 to high, and filled every low slot on my sigil with warp stabs, that was 5 tech 2 stabs. I hit a gate camp, with bubble, tried to turn back and run, i managed to get out of the bubble, but 2 interceptors managed to lock me down. If they had a scrambler each that would have been +4 scrambler strength, so having 5 stab modules fitted means I should have had a -5 to stability. So clearly one of them must have had a dual scrambler, and the other ship a scrambler / web fit. That makes a scramble strength of 6, where as my stability was 5. To me that is just OP, just ******ed. Which is why my beef is that each stab II should have a stability of 2, that way I'd have had a stability of 10. and been able to backtrack before a couple of cruisers had time to slowboat through the bubble and toy with me at their leisure. So now the reason for this post is out, time to say i could have done this could have done that, its just disproportionately biased towards getting your ship unnecessarily destroyed. I didn't loose anything of value, hence the sigil, I got my pod out of there, but the principle of it.. So you think that a non-combat ship flying around nullsec should be safe? That makes sense, because EVE is a game about handholding and making sure nobody gets hurt.
rodensteiner Amarr Awesome Jacket Society	Posted - 2011.02.10 16:54:00 - [17] http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Prorator That's what you need. Such a pain to catch _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Anton Silvano	Posted - 2011.02.10 23:53:00 - [18] Edited by: Anton Silvano on 10/02/2011 23:55:48 Originally by: SallyJ I hit a gate camp, with bubble, tried to turn back and run, i managed to get out of the bubble, but 2 interceptors managed to lock me down. If they had a scrambler each that would have been +4 scrambler strength, so having 5 stab modules fitted means I should have had a -5 to stability. So clearly one of them must have had a dual scrambler, and the other ship a scrambler / web fit. That makes a scramble strength of 6, where as my stability was 5. To me that is just OP, just ******ed. Which is why my beef is that each stab II should have a stability of 2, that way I'd have had a stability of 10. and been able to backtrack before a couple of cruisers had time to slowboat through the bubble and toy with me at their leisure. TL;DR translation: Even though they had half a dozen people, I should have been perfectly safe skipping merrily past them solo! Honestly this sounds like a solid time to check the map for ships in space/ships killed in the last x time before jumping into that next system. Or use a low SP alt to check the route in a frigate, or a buddy with a low SP alt. As an added bonus so I'm not totally trolling... T2 WCS's don't really do much of worth on a Sigil... you could simply fit T1 WCS's and be just as fine, at a fraction of the cost.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.02.11 03:04:00 - [19] -10 / 10
Kitty McKitty Gallente Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:14:00 - [20] OP's brain is scrambled. ~~~
Shieko Chan	Posted - 2011.02.11 08:38:00 - [21] Quote: Its not impossible, its something that you need to think about in all situations "if im attacked now will i survive" apparently not with warp stabilizers.
Argosus Waverunners	Posted - 2011.02.11 13:30:00 - [22] iirc t2 warp stabs used to be 2 points. this would have been before they were openly available on the market. a couple guys from Burn Eden had 2 as a prize for winning something. Pretty sure they were +2 points. then ccp changed them and seeded them on the market. I recall someone offering 2bil for one of them and it was turned down. Just hope they got something for it before they were changed and seeded or they will feel pretty silly :P
Daphne Q	Posted - 2011.02.11 13:53:00 - [23] Originally by: SallyJ So now the reason for this post is out, time to say i could have done this could have done that, its just disproportionately biased towards getting your ship unnecessarily destroyed. I didn't loose anything of value, hence the sigil, I got my pod out of there, but the principle of it.. Unnecessary? You say you were transporting minerals from null-sec to high. What will those minerals be used for? Perhaps the manufacture of ships and modules? And, if ship losses are unnecessary, who will buy those ships and modules? See, that's one of the things about EVE. It has a vibrant and self-perpetuating economy, due in large part to the fact that ships are lost. Necessarily lost. All losses are necessary, but some are avoidable. Traveling solo through null-sec or low sec are some great ways to increase your chances of losing your ship. How about using a scout? How about joining a corp that has its logistics figured out? How about training for and fitting up a blockade runner? No matter what you do in EVE, there is a counter for it. Some things, like running through null-sec in a solo hauler are incredibly easy to counter, as you have learned. Others are not so easy. You may find your efforts well spent in researching some of your options.
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.13 23:55:00 - [24] No they destroyed my sigil before I got the stuff. So for all i care now the stuff can stay in 0.0 forever. I'll stay in high sec for the rest of my days now (until ccp balance warp scramblers / warp stabs)
I likegirls Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.14 01:30:00 - [25] obvious troll. get the shovel out of forums.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2011.02.14 02:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 14/02/2011 02:48:31 Instead of trying to change the game mechanics to fit your playstyle, change your playstyle to fit the game. This is a PVP sandbox, WoW is that way ----->. Their are plenty ways to evade being caught by hostiles with scrams. They dont always work but most of the time it is the best you can hope for in this game. Try learning what these are. If you are getting popped alot, then you probably shouldnt be going to whatever system you keep trying to go through. I will list a few of these wonderful ways here: 1) Use a scout 2)Stay out of high traffic systems that see a large amount of combat during the day 3) Use a scout 4) Use a cloaky ship 5) Use a scout 6) Use a combination of agility mods and WCS ( non Combat Ships) 7) Use a scout 8) Grab some friends and take over the system. Then you can kill people that come in it. 9) Use a scout. 10) Use ECM/ECM Burst 11) Use a scout 12) Use align when not at gates or docks. 13) Use a scout. 14) Never sit at a warp in point.
Karl Planck Walt Disney Productions	Posted - 2011.02.14 14:07:00 - [27] I'll bite, even though I shouldn't. If your not a troll, then for the love of god stay out of 0.0. Hualing ore...in a sigil...solo...through 0.0. Forget the scrams, like you were going to survive any gate camp? This is not a broken mechanic. if it was then eve would be the most lame game ever made. Any McNoob could get away from any fight if a sigil could break a 0.0 gate camp. This game has a lot more depth than you may realize. There is a way to do everything, but you have to use your head (just like the other thousands of players your up against). ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:14:00 - [28] Originally by: I likegirls obvious troll. get the shovel out of forums. You, put some clothes on.
SallyJ	Posted - 2011.02.14 19:36:00 - [29] nah sorry, i'm not a troll - i guess it's frustration talking. prior to CVA losing their providence hold, i was able to get some ice mining done there in mass, CVA allowed me to mine there nice and safe :) Anyhow, now i cant even get to the station! I have about 1b worth of refined dark glitter, and every time i go to the asset tab it looks me in the eye. guys have the systems locked down so tight it's impossible to get in, with or without prorator, which i doubt will get through either. thought of an impel with all lows with warp stabs, but, seems scramblers are too effective. Just frustrated guys, just frustrated that my stuff is holed up and lost. You dont get that issue in empire I guess you live and learn. 0.0 is tried, tested, and if this was family fortunes, would score a big fat X.
Super Failure	Posted - 2011.02.14 20:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Othran Would now be a bad time to mention "infinite points"? Yes, it was because I wanted to mention it first.

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