| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lethal Entrepreneur
   |
Posted - 2011.02.13 02:55:00 -
[31]
If they can scam so easily without an audit, why cant you do one?either way according to you, you should be fine? VV is probably the most trusted member of the MD community.
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:11:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Lethal Entrepreneur
VV is probably the most trusted member of the MD community.
Says who? You; a well known scammer!
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Lethal Entrepreneur
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lethal Entrepreneur on 13/02/2011 03:30:35
t]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Lethal Entrepreneur
VV is probably the most trusted member of the MD community.
Says who? You; a well known scammer!
Im well known? Since when?
Also love the fallacious strawman attack. You totally beat me.
|
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:40:00 -
[34]
It's not a strawman, you ARE a scammer, with 0 or less credibility. Since you have no credibility whatever you say is worthless, either way.
Weren't you selling this char and posting with some other anyway?
Protip: Running babies first scam makes whatever you say worth less, not more. Dig the random trolling tho.
|
Lethal Entrepreneur
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tutskii
It's not a strawman, you ARE a scammer, with 0 or less credibility. Since you have no credibility whatever you say is worthless, either way.
Weren't you selling this char and posting with some other anyway?
Protip: Running babies first scam makes whatever you say worth less, not more. Dig the random trolling tho.
Still doesnt refute what I said, regardless of my credibility.
The only reason you insist on refuting my point is because of my actions, not because of my arguement. You launched your bond the night of my scam therefore you feel some compelling feeling to take out some sort of righteous jihad towards me attacking me. Also by defending the fact that Brock doesnt believe VV is trustworthy means you accept that stance as well. Not a good position to be in.
Instead of attacking me why don't you look at the issues at hand. You solve nothing but instead attempt to create a flaming attempt.
|
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:52:00 -
[36]
The point is that you have NO credibility.
And no, I personally don't like that random small time scammers are allowed to remain in the community and perhaps celebrated instead of shunned.
Whatever you say, is by definition, worthless. Why? Well, you are a scammer!
By the way, don't put words in my mouth, I have no stance towards VV whatsoever and If I did I would state it myself.
|
Lethal Entrepreneur
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 03:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tutskii
The point is that you have NO credibility.
And no, I personally don't like that random small time scammers are allowed to remain in the community and perhaps celebrated instead of shunned.
Whatever you say, is by definition, worthless. Why? Well, you are a scammer!
By the way, don't put words in my mouth, I have no stance towards VV whatsoever and If I did I would state it myself.
This really has nothing to do with credibility, if you have a problem with me posting, petition it. MD isnt some circle jerk club where only some players can post. Also I am in no way celebrated, I play a certain part of the game, again deal with it or prevent it.
Also I love this intense position you take, actually fun to watch.
Still waiting for you to refute my point about VV being arguably the most trusted MD member.
|
Liberty Eternal
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 04:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Third, MD has been pushing the use of audits as some form of security. You even said it yourself ôhow many audited investments (by me) have turned up as scamö
No audit will prevent a rotten CEO to walk away with the ISK, if anything it will help them raise more money.
You're making a logical error because you are asserting that a single instance of failure invalidates the whole method.
Medicine does not always cure the patient - shall we therefore dismiss all medical science?
Audits are fact-gathering exercises, they investigate and establish certain facts while checking for certain known inconsistencies. Their role has been well-defined and no-one has ever claimed they are
a) perfect
b) predictive
Originally by: Block Ukx
Ricdic and Bad Bobby are perfect examples where they use the ôsecurities in placeö to raise money beyond their trust.
They used different forms of security and never had audits.
Your own personal motivation for avoiding an audit - and the twenty pages of deception and misinformation you put out as you struggled to avoid getting one - are a strong suggestion of why audits are necessary.
Refusing an audit is a telling indictment. However, audits themselves can probably be abused and I do personally suspect one of the currently operating funds of pursuing such a scam strategy at the moment. But even so, the value of information-gathering still remains.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 09:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Block Ukx
First off, I would trust SencneS a million times before I would trust you. So watch out for such low blows
1) I freely express my opinions in the open and in the face of everyone.
2) It's not a blow to see a director of a failed AND corrupt AND not honoring their deal institution tossing around negative light on one of the few good things on MD.
3) The same director has failed to assess and report about the possible opaque practices in your company.
4) It IS a blow the fact you don't state said director is in your company therefore your opinion is biased.
5) Don't trust me? Entitled to do so. I don't trust your opaque organization as well, nor the practices about shares redemption.
I trust dry numbers.
Originally by: Block Ukx
Second, the police can put you in jail, so comparing an auditor to a police officer is nonsense
"They act as deterrent, exactly like the mere act of the police being somewhere makes low level criminals stay calm"
These are the points in common. And it happens indeed. Not by random chance that RAW23 wants to reinstate this fund, the very act of telling every new investor: "we audit you for free (= no excuses), ok?" WORKS
Originally by: Block Ukx
Third, MD has been pushing the use of audits as some form of security. You even said it yourself ôhow many audited investments (by me) have turned up as scamö
MD? No, just some idiots and the scammers who try to mud the whole thing.
I say myself what I can know for sure about myself: my statistics. That does not mean they are the Holy Grail, it means that the deterrent bit seems to work BETTER than the total absence of them. IE in the absolute they are FAR from perfect, they are still > 0.
Originally by: Block Ukx
Ricdic and Bad Bobby are perfect examples where they use the ôsecurities in placeö to raise money beyond their trust
And both of them harshly against audits. Surprise, eh? And notice I won't go beyond those names, since you see low jabs everywhere.
I am quite ****ed off, once again I stayed up to 3am to write a damn audit and I keep seeing this sh!t
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Misty McGinnity
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Misty McGinnity on 13/02/2011 11:21:11
A few questions for VV.
1) do you have a job?", earning $20 US p/hour? or around there? (i know its chump change but for the sake of round numbers)
2) how long 'on average' does it take for you to do a internet spaceship game "audit"?
3) what do you charge for an "audit" in terms of isk?
Now i'll fill in the blanks for you.
if the answer to 1) is yes
If the answer to 2) is 5 hours+
If the answer to 3) is ~300 mil isk.
Then work overtime for 2 hours (or take a part time job) & buy some plex with the money. time is money friend (goblin voice) sounds like your problem is you are living inside the game, jesus unplug, who the hell stays up until 3am doing a spaceship audit?  go outside catch some fresh air.
Audits are a waste of time.
waste of time
of time
time.
The world will go on NOT remembering your avatar's name & what a good job you did auditing, internet spaceship bonds.
|
Krythas
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:29:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
Edited by: Misty McGinnity on 13/02/2011 11:21:11
A few questions for VV.
[snipped random crap about how everything revolves around money]
I realise it may be a completely new concept to you, but not everything in the world is done for money. Strangely enough, some people do things simply because they enjoy it.
I really don't expect you to get this concept but you may want to keep in mind that people do things that may seem irrational to you for perfectly valid reasons, even if the reason is completely beyond your understanding.
|
Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Excessum Corporation
Excessum Gaming
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:33:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:34:24
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:54
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:45
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:26
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
Edited by: Misty McGinnity on 13/02/2011 11:21:11
A few questions for VV.
1) do you have a job?", earning $20 US p/hour? or around there? (i know its chump change but for the sake of round numbers)
2) how long 'on average' does it take for you to do a internet spaceship game "audit"?
3) what do you charge for an "audit" in terms of isk?
Now i'll fill in the blanks for you.
if the answer to 1) is yes
If the answer to 2) is 5 hours+
If the answer to 3) is ~300 mil isk.
Then work overtime for 2 hours (or take a part time job) & buy some plex with the money. time is money friend (goblin voice) sounds like your problem is you are living inside the game, jesus unplug, who the hell stays up until 3am doing a spaceship audit? go outside catch some fresh air.
Audits are a waste of time.
waste of time
of time
time.
The world will go on NOT remembering your avatar's name & what a good job you did auditing, internet spaceship bonds.
Just a tiny retort:
Do you have a job?
Does it earn you an income?
I'll fill in the blanks for you.
If the answer to 1) and 2) is: Yes..
Then working instead of playing is way more productive! Jesus unplug, who the hells spend time on an ingame forum when there are females to seduced, beer to drink and ad hominems to make!
Playing a game is a waste of time.
Waste of time.
Of time.
Time.
The world will go on not remembering you.
See what I did there?
|
Misty McGinnity
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 11:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:34:24
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:54
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:45
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:26
See what I did there?
Sure do champ, took you 4 attempts to troll me , wasn't even original  Corcyrus is a pretty cool guy, eh white knights for people in MD & doesn't afraid of anything. (see what i did there nerd?)
Theres only 1 person in this thread staying up til 3am doing spaceship audits & it sure as **** aint me  my original post was merely pointing out how useless they are to date, so why burn the RL candle at both ends to do them . its supposed to be a game no?
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 12:25:00 -
[44]
Quote:
1) do you have a job?", earning $20 US p/hour? or around there? (i know its chump change but for the sake of round numbers)
Not any more. The company I worked for 6 years laid off like 95% of their personnel.
Monday I'll write a demo software to show at a perspective new collaboration (not employment) on Tuesday.
Quote:
2) how long 'on average' does it take for you to do a internet spaceship game "audit"?
Depends on what I have to audit. From 2-3 hours to 4 weeks (1 - 2 hours a day).
Quote:
3) what do you charge for an "audit" in terms of isk?
Again, it depends on what's the task at hand and the number of involved accounts. From 30M to 150M even if I often get the investee give me more by his own initiative. I.e. Rykker Bow game me a substantial donation that I partly used to start the charity fund.
Quote:
Then work overtime for 2 hours (or take a part time job) & buy some plex with the money
Buying a PLEX is cheating in my self made code of conduit (which I don't demand anyone else to agree with).
If I wanted to really circumvent the poor money ratio conversion I'd just "play" RL and work more.
A MMO is meant to be a fun / challenging money and time sink. With a PLEX I circumvent both.
Quote:
time is money friend (goblin voice) sounds like your problem is you are living inside the game, jesus unplug
Your own sentence shows you believe what a game preaches about: that money is all.
Don't we have enough of this sh!t in RL? Money is not all even in RL.
Quote:
who the hell stays up until 3am doing a spaceship audit?
I gave my word. Even just for a game, I will die before I betray it. I am idealistic and stupid like that.
Quote:
Audits are a waste of time.
waste of time
of time
time.
EvE is a waste of time as well. Differently than an audit, it's a waste of time you pay for. Audits, at least, I get paid for.
Quote:
its supposed to be a game no?
It's a sandbox, and people do WTF they want to do. Even if at times it's tiresome.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Excessum Corporation
Excessum Gaming
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 13:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 13:22:11
Originally by: Misty McGinnity
Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:34:24
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:54
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:45
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 13/02/2011 11:33:26
See what I did there?
Sure do champ, took you 4 attempts to troll me, wasn't even original Corcyrus is a pretty cool guy, eh white knights for people in MD & doesn't afraid of anything. (see what i did there nerd?)
Theres only 1 person in this thread staying up til 3am doing spaceship audits & it sure as **** aint me my original post was merely pointing out how useless they are to date, so why burn the RL candle at both ends to do them . its supposed to be a game no?
To troll you even? I guess pointing out other people's fallacies now constitutes trolling? I'll thankfully white knight as much I please and doesn't afraid of anything. No I didn't see what you did there, you're entire post is unrelated to what I typed up. I am however thankful to see that there are still so many angry small minded people out there. Now please try and envision someone enjoying RPing an accountant in a MMORPG and deriving pleasure from that. Yes it's not everyone's cup of tea. It sure isn't mine either. Neither is it not my cup of tea to denounce people for their hobbies, while it quite obviously is yours.
Now please continue being as close minded as you are, I'm sure what ever redneck companions you have will surely enjoy another bout of ridiculing people with different points of view. (BTW that's an ad hominem, but I guess you knew that right?)
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 16:17:00 -
[46]
@ Liberty
I donÆt think IÆm making a logical error. My main point is that audits can be used to raise money beyond trust. In the case of Bad Bobby, he was indirectly audited by the fact that directors locked the assets. Each director could verify the existence of the BPOs, which is what audits do. And, if IÆm not mistaking, Hexxx and others had RicdicÆs API information.
And what exactly do audits cure? Audits are a pill to make investors feel better, but do not cure scam risks. Even you agree that a savvy scammer can use audits for their benefit.
@ VV
You and I disagree on a basic point. You view audits as a deterrent while I view audits as a scammerÆs tool. Do you really believe that you could have stopped Bab Bobby from taking the BPOs if you have audited him?
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 16:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: RAW23 on 13/02/2011 16:40:40
Originally by: Block Ukx
@ Liberty
I donÆt think IÆm making a logical error. My main point is that audits can be used to raise money beyond trust. In the case of Bad Bobby, he was indirectly audited by the fact that directors locked the assets. Each director could verify the existence of the BPOs, which is what audits do. And, if IÆm not mistaking, Hexxx and others had RicdicÆs API information.
And what exactly do audits cure? Audits are a pill to make investors feel better, but do not cure scam risks. Even you agree that a savvy scammer can use audits for their benefit.
@ VV
You and I disagree on a basic point. You view audits as a deterrent while I view audits as a scammerÆs tool. Do you really believe that you could have stopped Bab Bobby from taking the BPOs if you have audited him?
You keep saying that audits are scammers tools but you haven't yet given an example of a case where an external third party audit (not a lockdown) was used as one. I'm not saying that such use is impossible but for your case to stand up you need to show that they are, in fact, being used as such and that this use outweighs the benefits gained by investors being able to demand audits. That is, you need to show that the investment community would be better off if there were no audits than if there are audits.
As to EBANK, a) other people in the same organisation holding your api key is not the same thing as a third party audit (which is why the claim that BSAC is internally audited was not met with much enthusiasm by some people on this forum  ), and b) the actual situation at EBANK, i.e. that it was a complete failure as a business regardless of Ricdic's theft, was only, in the end, revealed by a third party audit. Do you really think things would have been better if EBANK had not had that audit and had carried on taking new deposits and pursuing the same failed business model?
People keep repeating that audits are a deterrent but you seem to keep missing what they mean as your question about whether an audit would have stopped Bobby shows. By deterrent, what is meant is not an absolute deterrent that will deter all people from scamming. What is meant is that since they raise the bar for scammers they deter those who would happily take 10mins to cut and paste a bond offering together from previous offers knowing that their offering will be indistinguishable from a legit one and will probaby net them a few bil. If audits are insisted on for initial offerings then that whole group of lazy scammers will be deterred, leaving a much smaller group of scammers who are willing to actively trade for a couple of weeks at least and train up a new character without receiving any plex or isk support from their main accounts. Scammers who are willing to put that effort in will not be dettered but all those who are not will be. For larger organisations they are primarily an information gathering tool to ensure that a Ponzi scheme or complete failure is not, in fact, under way. Again, the idea that potential investors in BSAC will be worse off if an auditor is able to confirm that you have the assets you claim than if they just have to take your word on it does not stand up. Yes, there is the possibility that an auditor could be misled or could be in on a scam but that a scammer successfully overcomes an audit will be at least marginally less likely than that the scammer exists in the first place.
|
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:30:00 -
[48]
I audit BSAC on an ongoing basis and had audited other ventures. I understand the limitations of audits, and what they can do and cannot do. A BSAC audit will simply confirm my spreadsheet. People invest in BSAC because they trust I wonÆt run away with their ISK. IÆm sure some investors will ôfeel betterö by a third party audit but by no means an audit should be used to diminish the major business risk in BSAC which is mineral price volatility.
I understand how audits can be used in the scammerÆs advantage. It is just a matter of time before a scammer exploits the ôaudit mentalityö. IÆve seen it before in the MD, when everyone was pushing for ôsecure venturesö via locked assets by a BOD. In the case of Bad Bobby, everyone went for it because his venture was ôsecuredö, and people overlooked the investment risks. By the way, locked down BPOs have more teeth than audits.
While I understand that audits can deter the dummy scammer, they can also help a savvy scammer. IÆll continue to warn investors against using audits as a trust-building tool.
BSAC Stock Exchange - EVE's only real-time stock exchange |
Liberty Eternal
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Block Ukx
IÆll continue to warn investors against using audits as a trust-building tool.
I'll continue to point out how shameless and dishonest you are and have been.
|
Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 17:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Block Ukx
@ Liberty
I donÆt think IÆm making a logical error. My main point is that audits can be used to raise money beyond trust. In the case of Bad Bobby, he was indirectly audited by the fact that directors locked the assets. Each director could verify the existence of the BPOs, which is what audits do. And, if IÆm not mistaking, Hexxx and others had RicdicÆs API information.
BB was never audited. EBank/Ricdic was never audited. Using them as examples of what can go wrong with audits is totally inappropriate - and comes across as intentionally misleading.
Quote:
And what exactly do audits cure? Audits are a pill to make investors feel better, but do not cure scam risks. Even you agree that a savvy scammer can use audits for their benefit.
There is no cure for scammers. There are means to reduce scamming risk. Audits are one such measure. Performance audits of opaque organisations such as yours are another.
Quote:
@ VV
You and I disagree on a basic point. You view audits as a deterrent while I view audits as a scammerÆs tool. Do you really believe that you could have stopped Bab Bobby from taking the BPOs if you have audited him?
Stuff and nonsense. Performance audits of BB would have shown if he was actually making money from the venture. He managed to take the BPOs because the directors failed in their duties and because the systems put in place were flawed and poorly executed. It should not have happened.
|
Caldariftw123
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 18:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I audit BSAC on an ongoing basis and had audited other ventures. I understand the limitations of audits, and what they can do and cannot do. A BSAC audit will simply confirm my spreadsheet. People invest in BSAC because they trust I wonÆt run away with their ISK. IÆm sure some investors will ôfeel betterö by a third party audit but by no means an audit should be used to diminish the major business risk in BSAC which is mineral price volatility.
An audit into your business would show whether you have the assets/isk you claim still, and are not in fact running a ponzi scheme. That is why you are so adamantly against audits and has nothing to do with them being "pro-scammer tools" because that premise is so ludicrous anyone with half a brain can see through it. None of the examples you gave as reasons against auditing were actually anything to do with auditing at all. Ebank? Not audited. BB? Not audited. They were failings of other security measures and of bad business practices, plus internal thefts, etc.
You claim they HELP a scammer build up trust, because it verifies what they say .. well, verifying their claims is a hell of a lot better than blindly deciding whether to believe someone's claims or not, wouldn't you say? You know all this, you are trying to discredit for your own purposes - that your own BSAC exchange is trying to avoid a full and impartial audit (I expect now you'll say you're in the process of moving assets for said audit, but unless that audit shows the FULL AND ENTIRE NAV of your entire public exposure (700odd billion wasn't it?) then it will not disprove the concerns that you are potentially running a ponzi..)
|
Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 18:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
However, audits themselves can probably be abused and I do personally suspect one of the currently operating funds of pursuing such a scam strategy at the moment.
We must weed out this villain and burn them on the stake
---
RL Meeting w/ Chribba
|
Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.13 18:33:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I audit BSAC on an ongoing basis and had audited other ventures. I understand the limitations of audits, and what they can do and cannot do. A BSAC audit will simply confirm my spreadsheet. People invest in BSAC because they trust I wonÆt run away with their ISK. IÆm sure some investors will ôfeel betterö by a third party audit but by no means an audit should be used to diminish the major business risk in BSAC which is mineral price volatility.
You are BSAC, so you're in no position to act as BSAC's auditor. And if there's a single corporation holding large sums of public ISK that requires transparency, it is BSAC. A performance audit by an independent party would be a start.
Quote:
I understand how audits can be used in the scammerÆs advantage.
I'm sure you do. I'm also sure you understand how trust has been used to scammers' advantage.
Quote:
In the case of Bad Bobby, everyone went for it because his venture was ôsecuredö, and people overlooked the investment risks.
Sadly, far too many people invested in T4U because it was kewl to be in on a Titan IPO. The risks were there to see from the start, and became more apparent as time went by. That didn't stop lemmings from hoping for an upswing in prices. BB being a poor operator didn't help either.
Quote:
By the way, locked down BPOs have more teeth than audits.
An IPO with sufficient locked down BPOs to cover investors in comfort will not require an audit. However, the right BPO lockdown processes and procedures need to be put in place, and must be maintained. It's very simple. Those simple steps were not followed in T4U.
That said, an initial audit would demonstrate capabilities - and regular follow-up performance reviews would confirm that the business was operating profitably.
Horses for courses.
|
Misty McGinnity
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 00:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Block Ukx
@ VV
You and I disagree on a basic point. You view audits as a deterrent while I view audits as a scammerÆs tool. Do you really believe that you could have stopped Bab Bobby from taking the BPOs if you have audited him?
Agree, if i wanted to scam, i would just do a few weeks of station trading enough to make an audit look profitable & get an audit. sure its a hurdle, but i can get more isk if the bond has an audit, as morons will invest if its given a green light by a nice audit result.
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 00:12:00 -
[55]
Edited by: AkJon Ferguson on 14/02/2011 00:15:47
Does anybody actually consistently make money off of investing in other people they don't know, have never chatted with, and don't share corp/alliance in this game? All this 'investments' stuff is just 'I'm 'rich' and bored, let's have a circle jerk and roll the dice.'
And wow, BSAC is totally a scam. I didn't know for sure that until I read that post by Block.
|
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 00:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Does anybody actually consistently make money off of investing in other people they don't know, have never chatted with, and don't share corp/alliance in this game? All this 'investments' stuff is just 'I'm 'rich' and bored, let's have a circle jerk and roll the dice.'
I've made more than I've lost.
|
Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 00:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Edited by: AkJon Ferguson on 14/02/2011 00:15:47
Does anybody actually consistently make money off of investing in other people they don't know, have never chatted with, and don't share corp/alliance in this game? All this 'investments' stuff is just 'I'm 'rich' and bored, let's have a circle jerk and roll the dice.'
And wow, BSAC is totally a scam. I didn't know for sure that until I read that post by Block.
Didn't somebody do the research and found that if you invested equally in every offering in MD for a period of time, you'd end up positive? I forget who posted that. 
---
RL Meeting w/ Chribba
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 03:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Block Ukx
I donÆt think IÆm making a logical error. My main point is that audits can be used to raise money beyond trust. In the case of Bad Bobby, he was indirectly audited by the fact that directors locked the assets. Each director could verify the existence of the BPOs, which is what audits do. And, if IÆm not mistaking, Hexxx and others had RicdicÆs API information
No, it's not an audit.
Directors work for the company and make it go ahead, including the duty to properly be present at votes.
Directors are tasked to do stuff or find suitable assistants to have stuff done (it's a typical Bylaw).
One of such assistants is (one or more) auditors. They regularly check stuff but they are not watchdogs. Directors are in charge to oversee or make someone else oversee the inner cogs of the company.
Originally by: Block Ukx
You and I disagree on a basic point. You view audits as a deterrent while I view audits as a scammerÆs tool. Do you really believe that you could have stopped Bab Bobby from taking the BPOs if you have audited him?
You may go and look for posts history, where you'd find me being suggested to audit someone and me replying that the guy is beyond what an EvE audit can do.
BB was well beyond that point, plus BB is THE typical outlier I mentioned before. There's nothing to do with them (with EvE end user tools).
But like you don't see Rolls Royces every minute, you don't see 800B investments (and scams). You see thousands of city cars, and that's where even an humble entry barrier helps.
Originally by: RAW23
(which is why the claim that BSAC is internally audited was not met with much enthusiasm by some people on this forum ),
It'd be interesting to see some of these internal audits. They have to be somewhere after all and by Block words, disclosing the final statements off them does no harm since "A BSAC audit will simply confirm my spreadsheet".
Or, at least, it'd be nice to know the name of the auditors. Just to make an idea.
Originally by: Block Ukx
By the way, locked down BPOs have more teeth than audits
I would not believe too much in that. Lockdown has enough quirks to be rolled over and with way less wits than producing hundreds of convincing fake transactions.
Originally by: Block Ukx
your own BSAC exchange is trying to avoid a full and impartial audit (I expect now you'll say you're in the process of moving assets for said audit, but unless that audit shows the FULL AND ENTIRE NAV of your entire public exposure
Yes, that's a "red flag". Segregating stuff on a fluffy virgin account factually hides every old transaction. IE the point of auditing it.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Margraves
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 04:36:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Margraves on 14/02/2011 04:37:58
I didn't know you guys had epeens so large that they could derail whole MD threads. Way to class it up. <3
* edit *
I for one welcome audits... even as a no faced alt.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 11:45:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/02/2011 11:47:33
I was reading another thread and an Holy Truth suddenly hit me.
Just tossing money to problems don't solve them.
Why not lay out a roadmap?
IE something like:
1) Setup a long term plan to get more people into auditing. Ofc with all the naysayers ready to spit on the very idea of auditing, it won't be easy.
2) Sadly, just because someone wants to audit does not mean he's cut for it. It's needed a simplified screening (I could help with that) to know if the guy even know enough about EvE to help more than deal damage. The guy should also have some basics about accounting and how to install the relevant software. IE some is in Java, some in Dot Net and so on.
3) Once found someone who cares and is fit, he has to be teached. Now, it takes weeks of practice to even begin the thing. Softwares are not so hard to teach, smelling the rot is.
This is why I don't believe that starting "auditing courses" would do any good. You don't teach "academics" to first graders.
4) Only then, the guy would flank a current auditor. The fund would help him to startup.
Quote:
I for one welcome audits... even as a no faced alt.
It doesn't matter if you are faceless or not. Look at the top notch quality post at:
Linkage
He's a faceless alt, and he's helping magnitudes more than well known MD denizens.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |