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Any point to courier contracts?

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Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:01:00 - [1] Just one contract after another to the tune of this: Payment: 100,000. isk Collateral: 50,000,000. isk From: High-Sec space To: Null-Sec space (usually followed by a warning that the station may not allow entry) I get it. I put up 50mil and get blown up in null sec. There are a few courier contracts here and there that don't look like death traps but most of them ask for collateral at 100x or so of the payment for doing the contract and the payment itself doesn't justify the ingame travel time. So, courier contracts, a potentially valuable feature in EVE that for all practical purposes is worthless to anyone. I think the only way courier contracts can actually be useful ingame is if some controls are implemented, some moderation. At the very least there should be filters that allows someone to quickly list only contracts that are actually profitable, safe at the very least sane. Thoughts?
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:04:00 - [2] Originally by: Mighty Dread Just one contract after another to the tune of this: Payment: 100,000. isk Collateral: 50,000,000. isk From: High-Sec space To: Null-Sec space (usually followed by a warning that the station may not allow entry) I get it. I put up 50mil and get blown up in null sec. There are a few courier contracts here and there that don't look like death traps but most of them ask for collateral at 100x or so of the payment for doing the contract and the payment itself doesn't justify the ingame travel time. So, courier contracts, a potentially valuable feature in EVE that for all practical purposes is worthless to anyone. I think the only way courier contracts can actually be useful ingame is if some controls are implemented, some moderation. At the very least there should be filters that allows someone to quickly list only contracts that are actually profitable, safe at the very least sane. Thoughts? Good courier contracts are snapped up very quickly. The bad ones fester until they expire.
Misnix	Posted - 2011.02.11 04:38:00 - [3] Some people do nothing but scan contracts all day. So i would think you would be hard-pressed to find a contract that awards over 5mil and still remains in high sec. And with those that go into nulsec, im guessing that you will still be denied access (Unless you beg in local)? That the contract is not your magic ticket to go and dock anywhere you have a delivery? ive pretty much assumed that any courier contract that asks for an obscene amount in collateral in relation to the award is a trap.
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2011.02.11 06:51:00 - [4] Originally by: Misnix ive pretty much assumed that any courier contract that asks for an obscene amount in collateral in relation to the award is a trap. Other way around baby, if it is a trap it may be sugar coated ;) ----------------------- "Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.11 07:11:00 - [5] Courier contracts are actually quite a thriving part of Eve. As others mentioned, the real ones, that aren't scams and offer good money vs distance are generally snapped up pretty quick. I've used courrier contracts myself to move stuff around when i'm way way off somewhere else and need things moved. Also, there's several corporations in the game that specialise in this kind of stuff. Take a look at Red Frog for instance. ( and their sister corp Black Frog ). Within our alliance we have our own internal courier system as well, which I use quite often to move my product to Empire via Jump freighter. I just put the stuff I want moved to Jita in the pickup station, set up the contract for them at the standard fee for them, and wait, a few days later, my stuff is in Jita where I contract it to my alt and sell it. Or I buy stuff in Jita with my alt, and ship it with the JF out here, contract it to myself when it arrives and I got my new shinies.
Azrakadar Minmatar The Nietzsche Followers Shades of Gray	Posted - 2011.02.11 07:58:00 - [6] I took advantage of courier contracts for the first time a few days ago. I was gonna make about 120M with the materials that I was asking to haul, so I offered 3M in reward. Seemed fair. It was only 1 jump, though
Sarah Thrace Mindstar Technology	Posted - 2011.02.11 12:24:00 - [7] I agree that Courier Contracts are a thriving part of EVE. A general "formula" for the consideration of a courier contract would be: Reward = (# of Jumps * Ship Type Required * Locality Factor) + (Collateral * Risk Factor) Where: More Jumps = More Isk Larger Ship Type Req = More Isk More Remote Start/Finish = More Isk Generally speaking a Highsec -> Highsec courier contract that requires a freighter will get picked up for 300-400k/jump if the collateral is < 1bn (freighter sui-gank threashold) If the contract is between major trade hubs (Jita -> Amarr) you can get it hauled much cheaper than the 300-400k/jump as you'll find pilots just filling empty space. If there is a higher collateral required, you'll need to sweeten the reward a bit, or better yet, divide the contract into smaller pieces. Large collateral couriers will still usually get moved if the route is reasonable. Another thing to consider with high collateral contracts is to extend the completion time to give the pilot flexibility if they encounter problems. Low-sec contracts: -Keep them under 350km3 (Jump Freighter) -Pay well & be patient Null-Sec...Talk to people in your corp/alliance.
Lusty Wench	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:42:00 - [8] I've used it a few times and was amazed at how fast it got done. I normally pay 1M per jump HiSec, because really...it's worth a lot to me not to have to do a 40-50 jump round trip. Also when you clean up a 20 jump range buy order using courier contracts it's awesome. Having 15 stations that you have to pick up from is not fun for me. Collateral is normally around 2.5 times the value of the goods. Not because I'm trying to scam anyone, but because I actually want the stuff. If I have to go buy it again it's a pain in the arse and a waste of time.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Lusty Wench I've used it a few times and was amazed at how fast it got done. I normally pay 1M per jump HiSec, because really...it's worth a lot to me not to have to do a 40-50 jump round trip. Also when you clean up a 20 jump range buy order using courier contracts it's awesome. Having 15 stations that you have to pick up from is not fun for me. Collateral is normally around 2.5 times the value of the goods. Not because I'm trying to scam anyone, but because I actually want the stuff. If I have to go buy it again it's a pain in the arse and a waste of time. 1mill per jump? Crazy. I pay a couple mill, depending on the cargo size, up to maybe 5mill if I know it's a pain in the **** to haul what I want hauled (IE most of a freighter space), for hub-to-hub. They get filled and completed same day.
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:52:00 - [10] I assume CCP will want the scammers to have their fun and so not place any limitations on contracts, so I suggest that there be advanced filters in place in the contract interface so I can can avoid having to sift through all the garbage for a single gem. Courier contracts allows for a valuable service to be provided but the agreement has to be fair to both parties. Sure you can lowball and hope some newbie takes it on but really if you want your stuff moved promptly just offer a fair price. I do wish there was an option for those making courier contracts to optionally split their cargo into smaller chunks (when possible). So essentially if I do not have enough room to transport the whole lot I can opt to move a portion at a time.
Lethal Entrepreneur	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Lusty Wench I've used it a few times and was amazed at how fast it got done. I normally pay 1M per jump HiSec, because really...it's worth a lot to me not to have to do a 40-50 jump round trip. Also when you clean up a 20 jump range buy order using courier contracts it's awesome. Having 15 stations that you have to pick up from is not fun for me. Collateral is normally around 2.5 times the value of the goods. Not because I'm trying to scam anyone, but because I actually want the stuff. If I have to go buy it again it's a pain in the arse and a waste of time. 1mill per jump? Crazy. I pay a couple mill, depending on the cargo size, up to maybe 5mill if I know it's a pain in the **** to haul what I want hauled (IE most of a freighter space), for hub-to-hub. They get filled and completed same day. Umm you need to meet Red Frog. They do Amarr-Jita (9 jumps) for 3.6m
Companion Qube Minmatar Electron Conservation Inc	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:31:00 - [12] The point of courier contracts is to see how little a space-truckin' roleplayer will work for. ... drunkpoasting best poasting yo
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:53:00 - [13] I don't know if it's workable but a way to insure cargo that doesn't require a trucker to ante up large sums for collateral would be good. Of course this can be regulated to high sec or have a sliding scale depending upon pickup/delivery to a low sec system or null sec system. Anyone ever thought of doing a trucker's union?
kiki mo Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2011.02.11 22:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Azrakadar I took advantage of courier contracts for the first time a few days ago. I was gonna make about 120M with the materials that I was asking to haul, so I offered 3M in reward. Seemed fair. It was only 1 jump, though Was that the contract from Kubinen (lowsec) to Uedama for transporting 15km3 worth of coolant (and 200m collateral)? If so, yes it was very fair...that's what caught my eye, I wasn't expecting that. I kind of thought it was a trap, but with only one jump I thought I'd try it and see if I got ganked on the undock. As it was, Kubinen was a lot quieter than I thought it would be.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.02.12 10:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Companion Qube The point of courier contracts is to see how little a space-truckin' roleplayer will work for. Practically nothing for small stuff, especially if they're making the journey anyway and just want to make use of spare cargo capacity. For more substantial tasks, specialists do a very good deal. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Diesel Grip Piston Works	Posted - 2011.02.12 18:08:00 - [16] I very often setup courier contracts in and around Hek, that pay well. Sadly I cant put a one hour time limit on some of the station to station in system contracts, I've had a few people who decide to accept these and then wait 23.9 hours to turn them in. Those people are making it so often enough I would rather just move it myself.
Azrakadar Minmatar The Nietzsche Followers Shades of Gray	Posted - 2011.02.13 01:42:00 - [17] Originally by: kiki mo Originally by: Azrakadar I took advantage of courier contracts for the first time a few days ago. I was gonna make about 120M with the materials that I was asking to haul, so I offered 3M in reward. Seemed fair. It was only 1 jump, though Was that the contract from Kubinen (lowsec) to Uedama for transporting 15km3 worth of coolant (and 200m collateral)? If so, yes it was very fair...that's what caught my eye, I wasn't expecting that. I kind of thought it was a trap, but with only one jump I thought I'd try it and see if I got ganked on the undock. As it was, Kubinen was a lot quieter than I thought it would be. No, it was not.
Fuuka Yamagishi	Posted - 2011.02.13 01:51:00 - [18] Courier contracts do have a good use for logistics, just not for money making. When you're moving things for others in a freighter or jump freighter, it makes it easy to use them instead of having to sort who's stuff belongs to whom. It may not be for market purposes, but it does have a very good use.
Nypheas Azurai	Posted - 2011.02.13 13:06:00 - [19] Simple solution: add a ISK/jump metric to the new contract interface (which everyone should be using). Now just filter out to desired collateral and choose the highest isk-per-jump
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.02.13 19:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Mighty Dread Courier contracts allows for a valuable service to be provided but the agreement has to be fair to both parties. Sure you can lowball and hope some newbie takes it on but really if you want your stuff moved promptly just offer a fair price. nothing forces you to pick up the lowball contracts. and the contract beta gives you a bunch more options for looking at courier contracts
Kitty McKitty Gallente Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.02.13 21:13:00 - [21] For someone called Mighty Dread, you sure whine a lot. ~~~
ACY GTMI Veerhouven Group	Posted - 2011.02.14 11:22:00 - [22] I went into courier work straight out of tutorials with one of my early characters. I broke the 20 million ISK mark in about a week. Pretty cool eh. It was often fun and I learned a lot . . . until I took a contract to deliver to Fat J's Flapjack House in 0.0. Since then I've been mining. Since then I've found that using anything besides courier contracts usually involves a waste of time and money. Sometimes a LOT of money. I use the value of the shipment as the collateral value and a SWAG for the fee. (Must be doing all right with that since I've never had one 'fester'.) There are corps who only do courier work. I think Red Frog is the best and I would be working for them now if I could meet the alt requirements. They are just as systematic about looking for and evaluating contracts as we are with what we do. One difference is that they have enough money so they don't really have to care about collateral, within reason. Like I said, it can be fun and profitable, but you shouldn't do it if you are desperate for cash. You'll end up taking a contract that you know you shouldn't, and the results are pretty predictable. For me, a hundred jumps a day is no big deal now and I still get around pretty fast in a Charon. It was good experience, and I'd like to see more people try it.
Fortunatolio	Posted - 2011.02.14 14:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Azrakadar I took advantage of courier contracts for the first time a few days ago. I was gonna make about 120M with the materials that I was asking to haul, so I offered 3M in reward. Seemed fair. In your MBA program, you will learn that this is called 'pricing to value' and it's a great idea if you are selling services but a bad idea if you are buying them. Quote: It was only 1 jump, though Ah ha. So perhaps you should 'price to cost'. It only costs the service-provider a few minutes of his time to complete this contract, so you can offer a much lower payment, despite the high value of the service to you.

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