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Jason Farstrider	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:35:00 - [1] Edited by: Jason Farstrider on 11/02/2011 11:38:40 Hi all, I'm looking at fitting a covops ship for hauling small-volume high-value cargo. Obviously the priority is to not get caught, and that gives me the following skeleton fit:- [Buzzard - Courier] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II 1MN Afterburner II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I (there's a similar fit for the other covops ships - Cheetah is probably the best - but the same question applies for all of them) Question is: is there anything useful I can do with the remaining slots? Can I drop my sig radius any? Fit a buffer tank without increasing sig radius? Electronic warfare?
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:38:00 - [2] is this for hi, lo, or nullsec? --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Jason Farstrider	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:40:00 - [3] It's "for" nullsec, but I'll probably end up using it in low/hi as well.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:52:00 - [4] Your signature radius is unimportant as cloaking is instant (if you do it right), you might SEEM to be still uncloaked to others due to the overview lagging behind but technically you're cloaked and can't be targeted. Because of that you're just fine to fit an MWD (and actually, you NEED one to get out of bubbles decently safe). Other midslots would probably be an ECM burst to try and drop lock if you made a mistake and got tackled. Also, specifically in a Buzzard, you need a cap battery and some cap rechargers as well. Battery is difficult to fit though.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:52:00 - [5] hmmm.... agility fit prowler with 2 cargo rigs provides good cargo space and can do fine by itself, altho it doesn't totally discard the need for a scout. T3 covops nullifier provides good oomph, but beyond the tengu, the cargo is actually somewhat limited (and even the tengu's 400m3 isn't really that much). --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.02.11 11:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Jason Farstrider Edited by: Jason Farstrider on 11/02/2011 11:38:40 I'm looking at fitting a covops ship for hauling small-volume high-value cargo. Obviously the priority is to not get caught, and that gives me the following skeleton fit:- [Buzzard - Courier] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II first is warp core stabs (2 is better). Elsewere you will get caught in first low-sec gate camp....
Cindy Marco Minmatar Expanse Security	Posted - 2011.02.11 12:03:00 - [7] Not alot really. If your might go through any of the systems with really really long warps adding a micro cap battery would only leave maybe 5 systems you couldn't warp across with full cap and warp drive operation 5. Or you could add 2 ECCMs to make yourself unprobable, but you have to uncloak for that. Maybe a probe launcher too so you can keep an eye on gates while out of scanner range. ôLife is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.ö - Bill Hicks
Mona X Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.02.11 12:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Jason Farstrider [Buzzard - Courier] Don't manually modify eft fits. Originally by: Jason Farstrider Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II They increase your signature, so use best named or (better nanofibers (specially for 0.0)). Originally by: Jason Farstrider 1MN Afterburner II MWD and ECCMs. Originally by: Jason Farstrider Question is: is there anything useful I can do with the remaining slots? Can I drop my sig radius any? Fit a buffer tank without increasing sig radius? Shield amps. Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2011.02.11 12:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Miss Rabblt first is warp core stabs (2 is better). Elsewere you will get caught in first low-sec gate camp.... Someone doesn't understand how to fly ships with a cloak, you can fly a BATTLESHIP through a low sec camp and make it fine, and that's without WCS. And again, sig radius (and thus ECCM) is NOT IMPORTANT IN ANY WAY. Sidenote: micro cap batteries aren't around anymore, not for normal prices anyway.
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Star Rangers	Posted - 2011.02.11 12:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Jason Farstrider Can I drop my sig radius any? Sure. Unless you plan on scanning something just use a manticore instead.
Jason Farstrider	Posted - 2011.02.11 13:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Cyniac Sure. Unless you plan on scanning something just use a manticore instead. Intresting. Moreso because the stealth bombers have enough PG to fit a MWD, Small cap battery, and ECM Pulse without a MAPC. The hound in particular is also more agile. They pay for it with a reduced warp speed. Worth considering.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Jason Farstrider Originally by: Cyniac Sure. Unless you plan on scanning something just use a manticore instead. Intresting. Moreso because the stealth bombers have enough PG to fit a MWD, Small cap battery, and ECM Pulse without a MAPC. The hound in particular is also more agile. They pay for it with a reduced warp speed. Worth considering. Bombers align slower and are slower, which is an issue with getting out of bubbles.
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:22:00 - [13] If its a big system, just warp twice if you have to. I've never had to warp twice in my Buzzard to cross any system I've come across, but maybe you don't have warp drive operation V trained or maybe I've not flown through systems as big as you have. Don't worry about your cap. Fit a MWD, I-stabs in the lows, and polycarbon rigs. MWD is required to get you out of bubbles or to allow you to gate crash. CovOps cloak means practical immunity from tackle in low-sec, period. The key is to minimize your align time. Once you've gotten align to the minimum possible, you can fit anything else you want really. If you get uncloaked, you're dead, so sig radius really doesn't matter. My opinion anyway...
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Star Rangers	Posted - 2011.02.11 15:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Jason Farstrider Originally by: Cyniac Sure. Unless you plan on scanning something just use a manticore instead. Intresting. Moreso because the stealth bombers have enough PG to fit a MWD, Small cap battery, and ECM Pulse without a MAPC. The hound in particular is also more agile. They pay for it with a reduced warp speed. Worth considering. Bombers align slower and are slower, which is an issue with getting out of bubbles. Correct. There are other reasons why you might what a low sig radius that are not directly related to the actual courier, and as he asked the question I pointed out the option. I always - use a cheetah for this kind of thing, with nanofibers (mid and highs vary on what else I'm planning along the trip).
Jason Farstrider	Posted - 2011.02.11 16:07:00 - [15] Edited by: Jason Farstrider on 11/02/2011 16:15:40 Edited by: Jason Farstrider on 11/02/2011 16:15:14 Edited by: Jason Farstrider on 11/02/2011 16:09:16 Originally by: Tzar'rim Bombers align slower and are slower, which is an issue with getting out of bubbles. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I'm seeing a hound with three istabs or nanos align faster than a cheetah with 2 + MAPC or buzzard with 1. If you fit nothing but the cloak and a MWD, sure you can get away without a MAPC and so you can get the cheetah's align time down to 3s (or the Buzzard's down to 3.2s). Leaves no room for an ECM burst though. As for Nanos vs Istabs the tradeoff is more between speed/align. The sig radius is a secondary concern. Speed will help you out of a bubble, align will generally help you get away. On a cheetah with perfect skills the trade-off looks like:- 1) 3x Overdrives, 2x SAT: 5.3s Align, 654m/s speed (3833m/s with the MWD) 2) 3x Nanos, 2x PEH: 3.3s Align, 609m/s speed (3568m/s with the MWD) 3) 3x Istabs, 2x LFNJ: 3s Align, 476m/s speed (2790m/s with the MWD) My understanding is that the major danger is getting uncloaked in a bubble rather than getting away from a low-sec camp - I'm leaning towards somewhere between 2 and 3 rather than going all-out for align time. With a MWD and without a MAPC, though, you can't really fit anything else. Is it worth it to maximise speed/align?
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2011.02.11 16:26:00 - [16] Why would you need 2 MAPC's? Also, you're too much looking at align time, ofcourse it's important but once you get below 4 seconds it really doesn't make that much of a difference. The chances of you dying with 3.8 align and just making it out alive because you had 3.2 align is very very slim. What you want is to optimise the distance and acceleration during your single MWD cycle and for that you want nanofibers. Also because when you're trying to get TO a gate (gate is bubbled and camped) if you get uncloaked you want to rush it to safety, you need nanofibers. Here's a fairly standard Cheetah fit to give you an idea, In "travel mode" you'll replace the point with a small cap battery II but that's about it. [Cheetah, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I Warp Disruptor II Cap Recharger II Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Cynosural Field Generator I /OFFLINE Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I You just can't make a decent fit with a Buzzard, they're not as good due to lack of speed, acceleration, cap and warp distance. Best overall covops is the Anathema, followed by the Cheetah, then Helios (if you can live with 2 high slots). Buzzard is absolutely last.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.02.11 16:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Jason Farstrider With a MWD and without a MAPC, though, you can't really fit anything else. Is it worth it to maximise speed/align? Yes because speed is the one thing that will save you in a bubble camp as everyone rushes to get to the spot you appeared in. Stick the cloak on the f1 key and the mwd on the f2 key and when you jump into a bubble you simply look to see where the other ships are and double click madly in a direction that will take you away from the majority of them and immediatly press both keys. As soon as you are up to speed change direction away from the closest hunters and then cruise out of the bubble as the campers sift through the area you were in whilst you are 50km away from your initial starting point and getting farther away. Granted it won't save you if there is lag or you get very unlucky and jump in next to someone with drones out who busts your cloak before you fully load the system but its about as foolproof as it can get past a t3 with an interdiction nullifier. Oh and the probes come in right handy for systems with a lone gate with no nearby celestials waaaaaaaay out on the fringe of the system. These are easy to drop a bunch of drag bubbles with abandoned drone spam to decloak you to cover all the warpins. So just probe out the gate and warp to the ships at range as they generally are not in the bubble so you won't get dragged in. [Cheetah, bubble buster] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] <-nothing useful for these if you are just a courier as nothing here will stop you dying horribly if caught. Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Salvager II <-for the odd t2 wreck you run across on your journey. Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
McRoll Minmatar The Legion of Darkness	Posted - 2011.02.11 17:57:00 - [18] There is still one thing worth mentioning, that is smartbombing. Sometimes you run into a gatecamp where you will have one or more BS smartbombing. In that case it can be useful to fit a medium shield extender or some shield res amplifiers because that increases your chance to survive the bombs. Oh and before someone says: "they will never know when you come because you are cloaked": my corpmate bombs coverts on a daily basis.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:19:00 - [19] Originally by: McRoll There is still one thing worth mentioning, that is smartbombing. Sometimes you run into a gatecamp where you will have one or more BS smartbombing. In that case it can be useful to fit a medium shield extender or some shield res amplifiers because that increases your chance to survive the bombs. Oh and before someone says: "they will never know when you come because you are cloaked": my corpmate bombs coverts on a daily basis. Hmm, you need two mapc to fit a med extender and even with some resist mods and rigs you bearly break 4k ehp. Not sure thats enough to tank a full rack of large smartbombs before you can get out of range. I'd rather keep the speed and use my wits to not fall into predictable warpins tbh. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.11 18:25:00 - [20] Just a suggestion - but have you thought about a blockade runner? More durable, can also use cov ops cloaking device, and has larger storage area.
Elsa Nietchize	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:11:00 - [21] I don't think drones decloak anymore
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.11 19:43:00 - [22] Working on a same thing. Key is to get the fastest align and perhaps ECM burst. Remember that they need a lock to point you... This can be avoided by core stabilisers, but... You think they will point you or gank you... If they get a lock you are toast. In high sec, low or null. Just make sure they can't get a lock! So forget core stabs and such. ECM might cone handy IF the scan you first... But in null... Why would they? Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.02.11 21:46:00 - [23] Originally by: McRoll There is still one thing worth mentioning, that is smartbombing. Sometimes you run into a gatecamp where you will have one or more BS smartbombing. In that case it can be useful to fit a medium shield extender or some shield res amplifiers because that increases your chance to survive the bombs. Oh and before someone says: "they will never know when you come because you are cloaked": my corpmate bombs coverts on a daily basis. Almost every Covert Ops death I have suffered at a gate camp has been to smartbomb spamming.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.02.14 16:34:00 - [24] Oh I just realised that engine thermal exaust rigs extend mwd duration. With two t1 rigs you get just shy of an extra 5 seconds of burn time under cloak. \o/ This is much much more useful than the hyperspace rigs. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Professor Villinghopper	Posted - 2011.02.14 17:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Elsa Nietchize I don't think drones decloak anymore Nothing decloaks you in a gate cloak anymore, other than yourself taking an action.
Captain Nares	Posted - 2011.02.14 18:06:00 - [26] Transport ships with covops cloak have same agility as covops frigs. So... if you don't need to scan smthing, why not to use transports.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.02.14 21:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Captain Nares Transport ships with covops cloak have same agility as covops frigs. So... if you don't need to scan smthing, why not to use transports. He is not hauling bulk items apparently so a cov ops works much better for his specific needs. Also transport ships are not the fastest ship around so your chance of getting decloaked as you try to get out of the bubble go up by a good margin especially when the mwd cycle ends. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.02.15 02:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Jason Farstrider Originally by: Cyniac Sure. Unless you plan on scanning something just use a manticore instead. Intresting. Moreso because the stealth bombers have enough PG to fit a MWD, Small cap battery, and ECM Pulse without a MAPC. The hound in particular is also more agile. They pay for it with a reduced warp speed. Worth considering. Bombers align slower and are slower, which is an issue with getting out of bubbles. Bombers can also carry lockbreaker bombs along with being able to fit ECM. Align time isn't really a big deal, honestly. Fit an MWD and us it while activating cloak and pulsing in a random direction, and you can get out of bubbles with few issues in either covops hull, short of the campers reading your mind or getting physics-shatteringly lucky (which has happened to me occasionally). Alternate fast courier you might try - use the other t2 cloak (the 70% one) on a dual-propulsion interceptor with some shield extenders and nanos. The cloak-and-MWD trick comes out to about the same speed, and if someone does manage to **** your cloak, off you go at like 5 km/sec, waving goodbye. And once you can warp you have the warp speed and alignment advantages of the covops scanner on your side. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Jason Farstrider	Posted - 2011.02.15 12:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Captain Nares Transport ships with covops cloak have same agility as covops frigs. So... if you don't need to scan smthing, why not to use transports. Mainly it's because I don't have the skills to fly a blockade runner - although given how good they are at the job it's probably a good idea to train them! Some other reasons I can think of:- The blockade runner is more expensive The blockade runner is marginally slower to get into warp The blockade runner MWDs slower The blockade runner warps slower The blockade runner has a larger sig I imagine those are mostly irrelevant. In return:- The blockade runner carries a great deal more cargo The blockade runner has a great deal more EHP
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.15 15:43:00 - [30] In regards to Blockade Runners, Sig Radius is not so important and many have an align time similar to frigs. Bubbles are going to be a little bit more tricky to deal with though. You'll need your speed up to get out of that bubble, however you'll also be able to tank more than a Cov-Ops. I even know some pilots run low sec/null sec in Sigils.

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