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littleodin
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:23:00 -
[1]
just a curiosity at what point should flipping goods on the market become an act of war?
i am in an alliance on, an alt ofc, that has a market player and a few cronies. these guys admit to flipping good off the market "for the good of the market"
here are some quotes from this oh so helpfull soul;
"If prices drop to Jita price or below, then they should be bought up, and re-listed by anyone including ppl within "fuzzy rabbits". There should always be a price difference between Jita and "fuzzy rabbitland"."
"After some reflection...
Because I do not wish some ppl in fuzzy rabbits to be annoyed, I will not flip market orders in fuzzyrabbit land space, regardless of how I feel about that."
"littleodin Since you keeping going on about the strip miners. That's something I trade in. When I saw that someone had put things on the market at Jita price or below, then there was no profit in moving that item any more."
I restored it to Jita price + 20%-25%, and then proceeded to buy even more in Jita to bring up too.
these were gotten from a recnet discussion about his actions . though in my humble opinion he is completely full of ****. can someone please give me a reason to think differently?
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killacaerbear
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: killacaerbear on 12/02/2011 22:27:25
u mad bro?
** edit ** ya that is a bit wrong .... ok it a lot of wrong
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littleodin
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:28:00 -
[3]
not at all just curious about the ins and outs of market trading as i was asking earlier....
"what point does this become an act more criminal/immoral?"
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Flora Dreadlow
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:31:00 -
[4]
Yeah.....you mad 
what i dont under stand why must everything on the market there be higher than jita? If i am a manufacturer and i can build it lower than jita prices out in "Fuzzy Rabbitland" and still sell it while making a profit and still be at or below jita price then why shouldnt everyone benefit from my ability to build and sell it cheaper? Just my .2 isk tho
PS. i tried setting destination to "fuzzy rabbitland" and my search couldnt find it. Could you link the system any were theres fuzzy rabbits is a place for me! |
Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:58:00 -
[5]
If you got pull, red him and remove docking rights.
If you don't, awox when nobody is looking 
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trance atlas
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:58:00 -
[6]
If you have a problem with it tell his CEO or the alliance head about it most do not take kindly to ripping off Corp/alliance mates. Otoh buy stuff from jita and wreck his margin.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.02.12 23:21:00 -
[7]
The general consensus in my neck of the woods is that if you think things are too overpriced, sell it yourself for cheaper. We get enough neutral alts in our region permadocked in our stations and flipping stuff that it's not worth it to argue; just "fight back".
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2011.02.12 23:37:00 -
[8]
I never understood the norm of 'Jita +20%' in player-owned NPC. Listing it higher is called "ripping off" alliance mates, but if prices are too high, someone else can bring in or produce stuff at a lower price. Same with listing it lower; if things really are too low, someone can buy out everything and list it higher. Let the market fix itself.
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Villa Wolfsbane
Amarr
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 02:26:00 -
[9]
ANd, of course, if someone insists on flipping the market orders up to Jita + 25% all the time.
Just keep buying and listing at Jita + 10% till he runs out of cash to flip or gives up
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.13 03:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Flesh Slurper on 13/02/2011 03:11:55
I just sell at whatever the market will bear. If that is Jita + 10% or 500% Jita price is up to the buyers and my competition.
Things only sell for what people are willing to buy them at. If you feel that prices are unfair, simply look at the market as if the unfairly priced items aren't there and don't buy them. You can also undercut them if you like, but making the alliance force a person to sell at a certain price will only make them not bother to bring things there at all. What would you rather have? High priced items or no items? If you want to be lazy and have convenience, then you have to pay the price.
Also, even if you are able to place rules on your alliance members that does not mean that those rules apply to all the blues that can use the station. So then you put your own alliance members at a disadvantage.
The best way to keep low prices is to have a corp ordering system rather than using the open market.
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John Comer
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Posted - 2011.02.13 13:58:00 -
[11]
just start building and listing at jita price localy and watch their wallets drain into yours
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.13 18:23:00 -
[12]
There is some effort involved in bringing the goods to the market. I can definitely see why one wouldn't want to do that without some kind of profit margin.
--
 Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Ver Selam
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Posted - 2011.02.13 19:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: John Comer
just start building and listing at jita price localy and watch their wallets drain into yours
This. I don't see what the problem is. If the OP knows someone who is guaranteed to buy his goods at his preferred price, why does he care that they are being resold afterward?
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Nikita Eves
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Posted - 2011.02.13 21:24:00 -
[14]
I agree with the "just flood the market" suggestion.
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Jethro Krull
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Posted - 2011.02.13 21:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jethro Krull on 13/02/2011 21:28:02
You can't control flipping. As previously mentioned, any alliance rules you have about it will end up being broken by blues and anyone that still has jump clones in the station and you can't flood the market on every item all the time.
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Fred Freedom
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:14:00 -
[16]
Our view and rule on this complicated issue is "if you're not relisting yourself you're not ****ing goons hard enough".
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Fred Freedom
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:33:00 -
[17]
Actually, I feel like being helpful today so I'll just tell you why the newbie is right: this is a video game and manufacturers burn out.
Our market tends to be anywhere from 50-500% above Jita. We also have the best stocked market in the game, better than some Empire regional trade hubs (so much so that half the NC uses JFs to fill up on VFK items to take back home); this has been the case going back at least a few years. The reason is that the wide profit margins enable almost anyone (in practice, mostly newbies that still need to make their first billion or two) to import via JF and keep their pet items in good supply.
When you restrict alliance hub prices to Jita's, what primarily happens is that (hostiles relist anyway and) you no longer have anyone manufacturing or importing the vast majority of things that you don't need on a day to day basis. When the handful of people that do these things anyway burn out your market hub becomes anemic, as you can see in basically any alliance that thinks this is a good idea. In practice, making your vets pay an extra 10 million for a non-reimbursable hull they might lose once every few months or an extra 1m for off-ratting damage hardeners is entirely irrelevant compared to having an extra 10 of these hulls and 100 hardeners available when you suddenly do welp a HAC fleet.
In fact I'll go so far as to say if you have this policy in place you're not looking at the long term health of your alliance.
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Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fred Freedom
better than some Empire regional trade hubs (so much so that half the NC uses JFs to fill up on VFK items to take back home); this has been the case going back at least a few years.
It's where I sell my boosters.
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Enord Loej
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:01:00 -
[19]
The guy you were talking to is an idiot. He is the one who "is mad." He is mad that he can't charge exorbitant markups for knowing someone who has a jump freighter.
If you sell at Jita or below the market will be stocked. Sure, the idiot above wont bother selling anything, but he over charges and the market is stocked anyways? So who cares, except him. If for some reason you decide to stop stocking the market then the people who actually have understood the market will already have stocked the market at higher prices waiting for you to drop out or will just come in once the market gap is found and charge whatever prices they want. The market will still be stocked.
The only difference is that charging Jita prices or below helps your teamates, it allows them to have more money to spend on other mods on the market, and other things that can indirectly help you by helping your teamates. Such as PVP ships for defending your space. The other guy isn't helping his teamates, he is ****ing them for his own personal gain.
If he actually believes the market will fail because you charge competitive prices then he is actually an idiot. Just find out what he is relisting and import a **** load of it until he can't afford to buy anymore and is stuck with a large inventory he can't unload for anything more than a loss.
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Moras Lonari
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:07:00 -
[20]
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective, why is it that you think YOU have to right to get stuff cheap just because someone is selling below value?
Anyone not relisting in that situation is stupid imo.
If he keeps flipping stuff to unbearable prices get someone to import that stuff for you, if the prices arn't unbearable whats the Problem?
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littleodin
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Posted - 2011.02.15 12:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: littleodin on 15/02/2011 12:21:06
so basically you see no issue with paying %300-400 over jita cause a market person saw there were moderately priced items on the marketand decided ot make them more expensive?
fair enough i would love to visit your area and just buy things on market that are needed and used and relist them for fantastic prices. This would be cool with you? great where is youe home base? OH!, and i wont put anything new on the market as transportation costs would ruin the massive profits that i will be makeing while screwing the hell out of you and all your freinds mmmmkay?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2011.02.15 12:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: littleodin
so basically you see no issue with paying %300-400 over jita cause a market person saw there were moderately priced items on the marketand decided ot make them more expensive?
I don't think you're getting it. (Re-)listing at a high price only works because people are willing to pay the high price. If you think paying three to four times the Jita price is too expensive, don't buy it. Get your stuff somewhere else.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.02.15 12:39:00 -
[23]
The market will set the limits, the corp does not need to and will harm its own best interests by doing so.
A trader does not have the freedom to set his prices outside the upper or lower limit of the market because in either case he will price himself out of the market.
These limits cannot be established by means of theory alone - which means that the corp cannot dictate them. The prices are situational and dynamic and a process of constant exploration and adjustment is necessary.
Imposing restrictions on your own traders makes them weak, undercapitalised and prevents them from gaining expert and accurate knowledge on fundamental market dynamics such as pricing, volume and prioritising opportunities.
It also wrecks the traders ability to compete with our wider trading community. Operating under constraints will inhibit his capital development and his knowledge, and a corp can't really become strong by pushing out strong traders and keeping its own traders weak and lacking knowledge of market processes.
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